The shock of energy prices increases

[bentwaters81tfw]

9 hours ago, nheather said:

Been reading that fuel rationing is on that cards, diesel at most risk possibly as early as April, but petrol at risk too.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

Oh, no! Better stock up on bog rolls then!

 

 

[Dave Swindell]

In other news - recent Airfix price hikes expected to have a significant impact on inflation*

The ONS is taking this news seriously and has added Airfix kits to the basket of essential goods used to calculate inflation**

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60734386

 

Spoiler

* I may be slightly exagerating this, on the other hand....

 

** A grain of truth in this, quote from above:-  "Anti-bacterial wipes, as well as craft and hobby kits for adults, were included in the basket of goods for the first time." 

 

[One 48]

On 12/03/2022 at 09:16, Robert said:

I am with Octopus as well. They have an offer for loyal customers on a 10 months fixed tarrif contract and admittedly the price has gone up which we will probably sign up with. I received an email from them regarding the increases a couple of weeks back as our contract ends on 16th March 2022.Regards

 

Regards

Robert

Thanks Robert, will give them a shout and see what they can offer, always paid on time and am currently well in credit, hope they reward me too.

On 12/03/2022 at 09:16, Robert said:

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by One 48

[Tojo72]

I can't complain,yet,when I moved from NJ to NC,my energy bill for peak months basically was cut in half,energy is a lot cheaper here.My house is a new build,well insulated,and all electric,my highest month has been $172 for a 1500 sq ft house.Shoulder months around $130.In NJ my worst months were almost $400

 

But the gas pump is no joke for sure,glad I no longer commute to work.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Yep same here - I just had a £950 heating oil bill. Staggering.

[Coors54]

Martin Lewis's Moneysavingexpert site is recommending that you DON'T sign up to any long term deals at the moment, stick with the cap price. https://clubs.moneysavingexpert.com/cheapenergyclub

They seem to think any long term deals will be more expensive but everyone should do their own checks, don't assume your provider is going to do you any favours, long term customer, good payer or not.

 

Dave

[Cammer625]

I have a old Landcruiser.  Was going to fill it up a few weeks ago.  $300 AUD later it’s now full.  40cents per litre more.  Thankfully, it only does 40km max a week.  Otherwise it would hurt.  But when I was filling it, it felt risky - gambling if the price will keep going up or drop 😆 

[Kelscale]

We have had it rough here in rural North Wales this past week. First up was British Gas's estimate for a new D/D for just electricity. I nearly fell off my chair😮

 

We were with Peoples Energy until they went bump last year. Thankfully government intervention meant we did get back what we had already paid in advanced DD payments. Unfortunately they swapped us over to BG and put us on their exhorbantly expensive 'peoples tariff' As soon as we were informed I went online only to find out no providers were offering an alternative product🙄

 

So in six months its gone from £85 to £218 a month😲 I did fall off my chair!

 

To top off our utility bill woes our heating oil delivery bill arrived yesterday. Up from 67p in Feb to £1.27 a litre!

 

As you might image our 1000 litre order has been a little difficult to swallow😭  The chair has been used for firewood!

 

I now here from a neighbour that suppliers can no longer quote prices upon request and that prices are approaching £2 a litre!!!

Edited March 14, 2022 by Kelscale

[Brad]

Got the same issues here in Australia. Closing down our cheap, plentiful coal fired power plants in favour of unreliable and expensive wind and solar has caused prices to skyrocket. Add to that the reluctance to go nuclear when we have so much uranium here is insane. Australia should have the cheapest power generation in the world, but we have near the most expensive.

 

I tell ya there is something wrong with a countries leadership when I think I could do a better job leading it.

[Coors54]

One thing that every U.K. electricity consumer should do is send your supplier a meter reading on March 31st to make sure you don't pay for power you have consumed at the new rate that comes in on 1st April.

[Whofan]

My local Tesco put its diesel up to £1.75 probably yesterday, when it was £1.65 on Sunday.

 

This is clearly and blatantly ripping people off.

 

The Tesco receives a couple of deliveries a week, but even in the (manufactured by the oil companies) panic buying last September/October never had two deliveries within 3 days.

 

I know because I had a long chat with the Tesco manager about it at the time.  He also told me that it was common knowledge in the industry that "shortage" was managed to clear petrol stations of E5 petrol ready for new stocks f E10 to go into the tanks. In other words, thewre was no shortage of petrol or diesel then.

 

The only conclusion for the jump in price over the weekend here is that Tesco head office instrcted Tesco retailers to rip customers off by adding 10p a litre to diesel already paid for and in in the pumps' tanks.

 

I asked this question here a few days ago, but it bears repeating; does anyone know how the retailers - supermarkets, garage chains, etc., buy fuels?

 

Do they buy on contracts for set periods of time or do they just buy loads on the spot market on a daily basis?

 

And finally, has anyone else heard that the "wholesale" price of petrol and diesel has fallen sharply in the last week or so, and wonders why the retailers have continued to increase the price at the pump?

 

It's the old adage, " To make money, put the price up up like a rocket, but down like a feather" isn't it?

 

I am truly sick to death of organisations using a vile war to cover blatant ripping off of the public. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Whofan

[IanHx]

35 minutes ago, Whofan said:

My local Tesco put its diesel up to £1.75 probably yesterday, when it was £1.65 on Sunday.

 

This is clearly and blatantly ripping people off.

 

The Tesco receives a couple of deliveries a week, but even in the (manufactured by the oil companies) panic buying last September/October never had two deliveries within 3 days.

 

I know because I had a long chat with the Tesco manager about it at the time.  He also told me that it was common knowledge in the industry that "shortage" was managed to clear petrol stations of E5 petrol ready for new stocks f E10 to go into the tanks. In other words, thewre was no shortage of petrol or diesel then.

 

The only conclusion for the jump in price over the weekend here is that Tesco head office instrcted Tesco retailers to rip customers off by adding 10p a litre to diesel already paid for and in in the pumps' tanks.

 

I asked this question here a few days ago, but it bears repeating; does anyone know how the retailers - supermarkets, garage chains, etc., buy fuels?

 

Do they buy on contracts for set periods of time or do they just buy loads on the spot market on a daily basis?

 

And finally, has anyone else heard that the "wholesale" price of petrol and diesel has fallen sharply in the last week or so, and wonders why the retailers have continued to increase the price at the pump?

 

It's the old adage, " To make money, put the price up up like a rocket, but down like a feather" isn't it?

 

I am truly sick to death of organisations using a vile war to cover blatant ripping off of the public. 

 

Can't say what decides the final price the retailer sticks on the pole, but I can give you some insight on how the price that the retailer buys it in at is determined.....

 

 

a) daily spot plus a bit  or

b) the oil industry published daily rate ( the "Platts price" )  averaged over a period of time - eg weekly, fortnightly, monthly, - plus a bit.

     Some of the more complicated arrangements  may involve being based on prev week/month, some may be based on current month,

     some they dont even know what the final price will be until after month end and so have to do seperate provisional & final bills.

 

It all depends on the actual contract between the oil refinery/marketing company and the retailer.

 

So its not surprising that a retailer may take a guess at which way the price is heading and add 10p on to cover themselves.

 

 

 

But if you think that's complicated, you should try working out pipeline tariff billing....

[Whofan]

@IanHx,  thanks for the explanations, but what I want to know is for example

 

Do Tesco (an example, but all retailers) buy diesel and petrol for say 6 months ahead, at a specific price, or do they just buy it on the day at what ever price they are charged? 

 

And as an aside, is it true there is no actual shortage of petrol and diesel, just oil companies taking advantage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine?

 

I should declare that I'm not particularly disadvantaged by this - we do around 4,000 miles a year, our car (diesel) does around 40 to the gallon, so we fill up about every 2 months, probably won't need to put diesel in until mid April next, so the price rises won't have a huge effect on us.

 

Other than the buggeration factor, ie seeing what I believe to be simple theft from customers.

[IanHx]

6 hours ago, Whofan said:

@IanHx,  thanks for the explanations, but what I want to know is for example

 

Do Tesco (an example, but all retailers) buy diesel and petrol for say 6 months ahead, at a specific price, or do they just buy it on the day at what ever price they are charged? 

 

And as an aside, is it true there is no actual shortage of petrol and diesel, just oil companies taking advantage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine?

 

I should declare that I'm not particularly disadvantaged by this - we do around 4,000 miles a year, our car (diesel) does around 40 to the gallon, so we fill up about every 2 months, probably won't need to put diesel in until mid April next, so the price rises won't have a huge effect on us.

 

Other than the buggeration factor, ie seeing what I believe to be simple theft from customers.

 

What the retailers do is contract for a set period ( say 1-3 years ) at a particular price calculation rules (as per other post) , and then put in orders as they require.  So the actual price of each particular tanker-ful can vary -  depending on contract terms can be daily ( or even hourly !)

 

Been out of the industry for a few years so cant comment on shortages - I simply dont know.

 

[Whofan]

8 minutes ago, IanHx said:

 

What the retailers do is contract for a set period ( say 1-3 years ) at a particular price calculation rules (as per other post) , and then put in orders as they require.  So the actual price of each particular tanker-ful can vary -  depending on contract terms can be daily ( or even hourly !)

 

Been out of the industry for a few years so cant comment on shortages - I simply dont know.

 

Right, that explains a lot. 

 

many thanks.

[IanHx]

6 hours ago, Whofan said:

 as an aside, is it true there is no actual shortage of petrol and diesel, just oil companies taking advantage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine?

 

.

 

Consider this :

* there is a fixed amount of storage capacity (unless you build extra tanks) , so you cant decide to start hoarding on a whim

* the refinery production schedules are fixed months in advance.  They need to sell on what they make in order to have room to put the new stuff, so stockpiling is not in their interests. 

 

Highly unlikely that any shortages are deliberate  -  it's more likely to be restricted supply (sanctions)  throttling refinery production.

Edited March 16, 2022 by IanHx

[Whofan]

1 minute ago, IanHx said:

 

Consider this :

* there is a fixed amount of storage capacity (unless you build extra tanks) , so you cant decide to start hoarding on a whim

* the refinery production schedules are fixed months in advance.  They need to sell on what they make in order to have room to put the new stuff, so stockpiling is not in their interests. 

 

Highly unlikely that any shortages are artificial .

If refinery production is scheduled months in advance, then that would infer that currently, refinery production is based on schedules set up long before the Russians invaded Ukraine, in other words on supply before invasion and on "normal" supplies of crude now.

 

But a "panic buying" shortage can be artificially whipped up (as it appears it was in September) that has the effect of transferring storage to vehicle fuel tanks.

 

when I spoke to the Tesco manager about this back in September, he told me that once the majority of drivers had filled their cars "panic buying", the queues at the pumps disappeared, which was my observation at the time, too.