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The shock of energy prices increases


nheather

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Being SABLE I've decided to burn my excess stash, it's a bit smelly,makes your eyes water and dosn't give off much heat unless you use 1/32nd or 1/24 kits but its better than nothing.

 

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52 minutes ago, One 48 said:



Vince, not sure how that works in Guernsey, but genrely in UK Mainland, Pay as you Go meters are the more expensive way to go with a higher tarrif tacked on. Regular metres with regular calibration checks and submitting regular accurate meter readings is the best way forward i can see in this mess we are all in just now.

Maybe its different for you from mainland just now, but usually pay as you go meters is not the best way?

Honestly not sure what your payment method is mate?

 

The last quarter i had from July-September was over £800 given that it's the middle of summer/early autum and no lights or heating on i gave up,at least i know week to week what i can afford...

The payment method is like a credit card,go to a shop and you can put whatever you want on it from £10 upwards and it's the same as a contactless at a shop/supermarket just hold the card over the meter and the amount goes into the meter,i could end up with paying a bit more but i can use it flexibly instead of being lumbered with a massive bill each quarter...

 

Edit: Forgot about the  calibration,it's an estimated bill unlike the Water which still check manually the meter's in all weathers instead of guessing from a nice warm office...

Edited by Vince1159
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There's one thing that puzzles me.

 

Diesel and Petrol around here seem to be going up each day.

 

Don't these resellers ( supermarkets, etc.) have contracts for purchasing fuels at fixed prices for a specific term, or do they literally just buy fuel on a daily basis?

 

You see, to me, if these business do have contracts, then putting the retail price up without a purchase price rise seems just like profiteering to me.

 

Does anyone know how the retail of fuels works?

 

And similarly gas and electricity - do the resellers but forward on contracts or do they just pay on the day, so to speak?

Edited by Whofan
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3 minutes ago, Whofan said:

There's one thing that puzzles me.

 

Diesel and Petrol around here seem to be going up each day.

 

Don't these resellers ( supermarkets, etc.) have contracts for purchasing fuels at fixed prices for a specific term, or do they literally just buy fuel on a daily basis?

 

You see, to me, if these business do have contracts, then putting the retail price up without a purchase price rise seems just like profiteering to me.

 

Does anyone know how the retail of fuels works?

 

And similarly has and electricity - do the resellers but forward on contracts or do they just pay on the day, so to speak?

It wasn't that long ago wholesale prices were coming down and we were advised oil & gas was bought 6 month in advance, because of that retail prices couldn't follow the drop on a daily basis.

 

Now we're told it's the spot price that is the driving the increase.

 

The big fear has to be that as consumers were setting a precedence for what we are willing to pay and, should crude fall back to prices similar to January's prices, we're never going to see the likes of January's prices @ the pumps again.

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48 minutes ago, Circloy said:

we're never going to see the likes of January's prices @ the pumps again.

Rocket and feather effect... goes up like a rocket and comes back down like a feather! 

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

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14 minutes ago, fatfingers said:

Rocket and feather effect... goes up like a rocket and comes back down like a feather! 

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

That's been petrol and diesel for as long as I've been driving, some 50years!

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It's not just the UK.

 

Down here, pre-Covid, I used to go to Sydney once, and frequently twice, a month for model club meetings and personal business, a round trip of about 550kms. That all stopped with the pandemic, but now I can go down to The Smoke again. However, in the last little while premium super petrol, which is necessary for my car, has gone from about AUS$1.30 a litre to over AUS$2.00. Given that a round trip to Sydney takes most of a 30 litre tank, guess who won't be going to Sydney anywhere near as often now? I'd probably sell my current wheels and go electric, were it not for the fact that electric cars carry a price premium at the moment, and there's not yet a reliable charge network out here anyway. That will change, I have no doubt, in spite of what certain individuals are saying, but probably not soon enough. We need to get away from reliance on fossil fuel - my hope is that the silver lining to the world's current crisis is that that lesson will be brought home sooner. (And don't mention public transport - in this part of the world it's most kindly described as woeful. A trip to Sydney on public transport takes most of a day in each direction, which means at least two, and usually three, days have to be allowed for a trip, with the additional cost of accommodation, etc., to be added, whereas I can get to Sydney and back inside a day by car.)

 

Electricity prices haven't risen markedly - yet. No doubt there are some little delights to come in that area, though ...

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We are trying to find a two bedroom bungalow. We have a 4 bed split level detached 'which we sold in February 2019'. ( there's a three bed nearby for sale for more than we would have got for ours) We were at the top of a ten house chain and our buyer was furloughed so he lost his mortgage offer! The bungalow we were due to buy went to someone else who had already sold their house. At that time the 3 bed detached bungalow a few hundred yards away on another estate were selling at £300.000. One two doors form that came on the market two weeks ago at £400,000, but it's needing an update from it's original state from when both were built in the late 70's! So new bathroom, kitchen, flooring etc. most of the two bed semi-bungalows in the street have solar panels, so least have that bonus. We have asked when new bungalows are being built but developers here and the council planning office say no new bungalows 'all the elderly will have to go into flats! A new care home is near completion here with an extra @wing' behind it of 'apartments' so no view/outlook/garden but there is a management fee each month for 'the grounds' although we won't be able to see it! The smallest size is a 1 bedroom at a starting price of £400.000!  

We have both gas and electricity on tap and are looking for the weather to warm up and will turn the gas off at the meter and have electricity for water, cooking and lighting, in an attempt at least to cut costs! We have refused to have an energy meter as houses around here have had weekend bills of £1000 plus, and the utilities don't now why but insist these readings are correct and they must be paid! 

This is all due to us two years ago realising that we would need to minimise our energy costs, plus being on one floor future proofing our future past our mid 70's as we are now and fully fit.

Our BP Diesel is 159.9 ( 155.9 for nearly a year) but our Tesco diesel is up last week by 3p to 157.9! Lucky at our age we don't need the car too much, when we both worked we were doing 15000 miles just back and forth to work plus adding 5000 miles leisure mileage. So to aid with health we walk almost everywhere each day.  

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OFGEM are the folk to talk to about all this, they made this new April price cap and i sometimes wonder, who are they, who are they to judge, who looks at what they really do and their accounts?

OFGEM's cap from April until October is bad enough for already fast rising energy prices, but and leaving politics aside, we have a war happening now where leverage of energy is a very big part of it, it looks like even OFGEM have no clue where it goes from here.

Its a worry and we should not shy away from this, we are in a crisis for sure of several magnitudes.

We could do with answers, but until we get them, lets please help each other.

 

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10 hours ago, Whofan said:

There's one thing that puzzles me.

 

Diesel and Petrol around here seem to be going up each day.

 

Don't these resellers ( supermarkets, etc.) have contracts for purchasing fuels at fixed prices for a specific term, or do they literally just buy fuel on a daily basis?

 

You see, to me, if these business do have contracts, then putting the retail price up without a purchase price rise seems just like profiteering to me.

 

Does anyone know how the retail of fuels works?

 

And similarly has and electricity - do the resellers but forward on contracts or do they just pay on the day, so to speak?

 

Quite a few of the retail fuel contracts are based on either "previous day spot price + x"  or  "previous week average + x".

Mostly Platts prices.

Edited by IanHx
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6 hours ago, One 48 said:

OFGEM's cap from April until October is bad enough for already fast rising energy prices

I heard on monday that April's OFGEM price cap was set when gas was £0.65 per therm, the same day Gas was trading @ £6.00 per therm.

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I think other businesses are going to be at risk of collateral damage.  Sure we can look at how we can use energy more efficiently but you can only do so much at the end of the day we are a captured market.

 

I am very fortunate that I can afford these hikes but I can imagine for some they are going to be crippling.

 

I just got a letter from Sky (yes I am fortunate and can afford Sky TV) all about their price increases from the 1st April - they are quite high and coupled with coming to the end of a ‘deal’ my subscription will leap up.  Sure I can probably negotiate another deal and before this energy crisis I would have done so with little to no thought, but now, even though I can afford it, the energy crisis is making me think “do I really need Sky TV, am I really getting value out of it”.

 

As I said I am in the fortunate position that I can afford these increases, but many cannot and I can imagine many Sky TV subscriptions getting cancelled to pay for energy increases.

 

I have used Sky just as an example, there will be any number of expenses that we can cut back on - the poor on hospitality sector was just beginning to get back on its feet but I fear this could be the ‘Sucker Punch’ as they sell luxuries that consumers can choose not to take in times of need.

 

 

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10 hours ago, fatfingers said:

Rocket and feather effect... goes up like a rocket and comes back down like a feather! 

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Banks and interest rates also immediately spring to mind. 

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11 minutes ago, nheather said:

 

I just got a letter from Sky (yes I am fortunate and can afford Sky TV) all about their price increases from the 1st April - they are quite high and coupled with coming to the end of a ‘deal’ my subscription will leap up.  Sure I can probably negotiate another deal and before this energy crisis I would have done so with little to no thought, but now, even though I can afford it, the energy crisis is making me think “do I really need Sky TV, am I really getting value out of it”.

 

I haven't had my letter yet, but I can imagine how much it will be.

 

Like you, so far, I can afford it, but frankly, I might well consider dropping sky sport.

 

Edited by Whofan
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53 minutes ago, Whofan said:

 

I haven't had my letter yet, but I can imagine how much it will be.

 

Like you, so far, I can afford it, but frankly, I might well consider dropping sky sport.

 


Yes it is their usual slyness - rather than saying your package is going up by £x or y% they increase each individual part by £1. They must think people are stupid and will think (it’s only a quid) rather than look at the combined increase and saying “blimey, that’s over 10%”.

 

One interesting one is that they have had the strange ‘you have to pay extra for HD’ but now they have added an ‘and you now have to pay extra for UHD too’.  I might drop that - for me the UHD offerings are quite limited (admittedly getting better) and although I can see a picture quality improvement it isn’t “Wow!” plus it isn’t supported on Sky mini boxes.  And that has tripped me up a few times, recorded a programme, it automatically selects the UHD version, decide to watch it in bed and get the ‘sorry you cannot watch this’ message.  Sure I can download it again from the mini but it is a little annoying.


Some increases

 

Signature +£1

Cinema +£1

UHD +£2

HD +£1

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

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I’ve been told that the businesses that are in the solar panel etc energy line are incredibly busy with increased demand. Heating water for central heating and domestic washing is basic to everyone and solar is a decent way of getting the house warm and bodies washed. The latter not always a priority as evidenced at Telford :D   The problem is cost of purchase and it wasn’t so attractive once the grants stopped. A massive hike in electricity prices might change that calculation though. 
Given we in the UK are looking towards energy security and self provision I think we need to swallow these installation costs possibly by reintroducing incentives to fit this sort of thing. Stick and carrot approach. Lower the price of installation by offsets and increase cost of buying electricity while making sure the vulnerable are not overlooked during transition. 
Clearly the world is going electric to wean itself off fossil fuels once power generation slows and stops using coal etc to generate. That’s long haul but meantime the UK is in a better position to move on but there will be short term pain while we sort this out over the next decade

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I gave up on the gas 15 years ago, I was sick of the industry hiking up my payments for no reason other than "well thats the average", I submit regular readings as well but the scam was getting interest free loans from their customers.

 

I got a multi fuel stove installed with a water jacket and plumbed into the heating system with a pump. It is fantastic, a bucket of coal keeps the whole house (four bedroom semi) toasty for 24 hours. I also burn wood which costs nothing other than my labour and a bit petrol and oil for the chain saws.

 

I only use the gas for water heating, and bottled gas for the hob, which lasts nigh on 2 years, the ovens are electric.

 

My current electric and gas bill is £40/month based on actual readings and the coal (smokeless) is £48/month (two cwt) and only a winter time cost.

 

What hated about the gas and electric was the paying over the course of a year and had no control really over the costs. With the coal and bottled gas I pay as I need and can stock pile when I have the money and take advantage of offers. I currently have a ton and a half of coal and three gas bottles stock piled, the 1/2 cwt coal bags stack nicely down the path from the front to the back of the house, out of sight and behind a locked gate. Another plus for me is I can use cash to pay for the coal and gas bottles.

 

In light of the current situation I am glad I did this.

 

I have always thought that depending on global markets for our needs was a folly as it was surely going to end in tears.

 

Edited by dromia
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5 hours ago, nheather said:


Yes it is their usual slyness - rather than saying your package is going up by £x or y% they increase each individual part by £1. They must think people are stupid and will think (it’s only a quid) rather than look at the combined increase and saying “blimey, that’s over 10%”.

 

One interesting one is that they have had the strange ‘you have to pay extra for HD’ but now they have added an ‘and you now have to pay extra for UHD too’.  I might drop that - for me the UHD offerings are quite limited (admittedly getting better) and although I can see a picture quality improvement it isn’t “Wow!” plus it isn’t supported on Sky mini boxes.  And that has tripped me up a few times, recorded a programme, it automatically selects the UHD version, decide to watch it in bed and get the ‘sorry you cannot watch this’ message.  Sure I can download it again from the mini but it is a little annoying.


Some increases

 

Signature +£1

Cinema +£1

UHD +£2

HD +£1

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

 

Got all this to look forward too....  right now the household consensus is that we can get enough to watch on Amazon & Netflix, and there really hasnt been a lot of new content we want to watch on Sky over the past 24 months.....

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Been thinking about dropping Sky myself recently and signing up with Netflix and Disney + To be honest i doubt i would miss it that much as the movies are dire and its many channels are full of repeats and old content! Mrs fatfingers would miss it far more than me especially the endless repeats of Father Brown! 🤦‍♂️

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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21 hours ago, PatW said:

We are trying to find a two bedroom bungalow. We have a 4 bed split level detached 'which we sold in February 2019'. ( there's a three bed nearby for sale for more than we would have got for ours) We were at the top of a ten house chain and our buyer was furloughed so he lost his mortgage offer! The bungalow we were due to buy went to someone else who had already sold their house. At that time the 3 bed detached bungalow a few hundred yards away on another estate were selling at £300.000. One two doors form that came on the market two weeks ago at £400,000, but it's needing an update from it's original state from when both were built in the late 70's! So new bathroom, kitchen, flooring etc. most of the two bed semi-bungalows in the street have solar panels, so least have that bonus. We have asked when new bungalows are being built but developers here and the council planning office say no new bungalows 'all the elderly will have to go into flats! A new care home is near completion here with an extra @wing' behind it of 'apartments' so no view/outlook/garden but there is a management fee each month for 'the grounds' although we won't be able to see it! The smallest size is a 1 bedroom at a starting price of £400.000!  

We have both gas and electricity on tap and are looking for the weather to warm up and will turn the gas off at the meter and have electricity for water, cooking and lighting, in an attempt at least to cut costs! We have refused to have an energy meter as houses around here have had weekend bills of £1000 plus, and the utilities don't now why but insist these readings are correct and they must be paid! 

This is all due to us two years ago realising that we would need to minimise our energy costs, plus being on one floor future proofing our future past our mid 70's as we are now and fully fit.

Our BP Diesel is 159.9 ( 155.9 for nearly a year) but our Tesco diesel is up last week by 3p to 157.9! Lucky at our age we don't need the car too much, when we both worked we were doing 15000 miles just back and forth to work plus adding 5000 miles leisure mileage. So to aid with health we walk almost everywhere each day.  

Update 09.03.22: Our local BP filling station has put diesel( and petrol) up by 4pence a litre to diesel at 163.9! What next tomorrow. We have had all the parking spaces for the BP/Marks & Sparks shop cordoned off a porta loo/office/digger turned up a week ago to start on electric charging points Although no work has actually started. Total chargers in place in Buckingham: Tesco 6/Waitrose-public carpark 6, although opposite Waitrose a care home/apartments are being built so only one charging point is available as builders vans park on the other charging spaces!    

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On 09/03/2022 at 19:46, fatfingers said:

Been thinking about dropping Sky myself recently and signing up with Netflix and Disney + To be honest i doubt i would miss it that much as the movies are dire and its many channels are full of repeats and old content! Mrs fatfingers would miss it far more than me especially the endless repeats of Father Brown! 🤦‍♂️

 

Regards,

 

Steve

We would keep elements of it. While CBeebies is free, the almost 3 year old Grandson loves several other programmes on different kids channels on Sky.

 

I am constantly amazed how good some of the wide variety of kids programmes are, the educational content as well.

 

Though I confess I have to watch Fireman Sam if the boy has it on, just to see what more damage Norman does! 

 

He must be the most destructive child in Wales, not just PontyPandy.

 

Netflix and Amazon Prime do’t seem to have a lot worth watching, from what I can see at my daughters, but Amazon Prime does have tennis on, which means I can happily move to the modelling chamber while SWMBO watches Rafa Nadal.... I just don’t want to know what she’s thinking!!

Edited by Whofan
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From The Netherlands:

Ministers put €2.8 bn into cutting taxes on fuel and energy.

 

Ministers have agreed to reduce taxes on fuel and energy in an effort to shore up spending power following mounting inflation. They have also agreed to increase the one-off payment to low income families from €200 to €800, social affairs minister Karien van Gennip said after Friday’s cabinet meeting ‘The Netherlands is becoming poorer because what we are buying is more expensive,’ Van Gennip said. ‘We cannot compensate everyone, so we are focusing on families with low and medium incomes.’ In particular, the tax on fuel will be reduced by 17 cent per liter for lead-free petrol and 11 cents for a liter of diesel from April 1. Value added tax on gas and electricity will be cut from the 21% high rate to 9% from July 1. In total, the package will cost the treasury €2.8 bn and will run for at least six months. National statistics office CBS said on Thursday that inflation had reached 6.2% in February, and the government’s macro-economic think-tank has said spending power will drop by an average of at least 2.7% in 2022, thanks in part to rising energy prices. Around half the cost of petrol in the Netherlands is down to tax, as is 40% of the cost of diesel.

Read more at DutchNews.nl:

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I thought that UAE had agreed to make good the shortfall from Russian sources, so shouldn't the prices be going down soon?  Yes... ever the optometrist :nerd:

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24 minutes ago, Mike said:

I thought that UAE had agreed to make good the shortfall from Russian sources, so shouldn't the prices be going down soon? 

Well they seemed to say that at first, but then said basically that only if the rest of OPEC does too. They don't want to be the only ones increasing production. None the less, crude oil prices did drop by around 12%.

 

Whether we'll see the impact at the pumps of not is another matter. I heard on Radio 4 that it takes 1 -2 wks for any price drop to make its way to the pumps. Funny thing is it doesn't seem to take anything like that long for a price increase to appear at the pumps!

 

But I guess the government aren't too unhappy - a nice little boost to their fuel duty and VAT income!

 

Cheers

 

Colin

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