What colour is the boat? HMS Onslow again

[Ships doc]

Could I please ask for thoughts on some photos of HMS Onslow for colour schemes? Apologies have asked this before but obsessing over it before committing to putting paint on the model! 

I'm modelling the ship as was in early 1942 (so before the Barents Sea when she is more often depicted) 

IWM photos here: 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205143145

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205141602

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205141486

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30018259

Note - I think the model was built shortly after ww2. I can't remember where I read this. 

 

My plan: 

Upperworks in admiralty light grey 507c 

Hull in home fleet grey 507a 

Decks: RN non-slip deck grey / semtex areas in "admiralty grey"

(evidence for above based on photos & model) 

Boot topping - I think I can make this out in one of the photos so I think yes, but not sure. The IWM model doesn't have one.

Lower hull - I think this would be red if I have read the recent evidence on this correctly. Also Onslow was built next to Duke of York, which I think was red (Does this have any influence at all? Or does the shipyard practice not matter?). 

There is a painting of Onslow on the front of 'Arctic Destroyers', which shows red lower hull and no boot topping. No idea when this was painted though (presumed not in the middle of a raid, so must be on memory/ from similar film footage). 

No pennant number, black funnel band with white & red ones below as flotilla leader. 

 

An anomaly: what colour is the 25ft boat on the port side? Thought it would be in light grey but looks darker. 

 

For reference I also have these notes on other times: 

As built 1941: Overall HFG with white pennant numbers

Mid 1942: 507a/507c scheme as above. 

Late 1942: Early version of SEFD scheme, 4 tones not sure of colours. 

1943 after repair SEFD scheme, presumed in new colour series. Looks like simplified to 3 tones but not sure. 

1945: Standard scheme with floats in yellow/red 

 

Thanks and apologies for the long post! 

 

James 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dickrd]

I would agree with virtually all your suggestions re the likely colours on Onslow at the time you are interested in. Re the ‘Admiralty grey’ of the Semtex, my interpretation of things is that this meant the shade of the then BS381C No. 32 Dark Battleship Grey now BS381C No. 632 Dark Admiralty Grey.

 

Re the boot topping, there is a photo (Ensign 6, page 5) of Onslow as she neared completion in the fitting-out basin at John Brown’s that shows a very dark (black?) boot topping and, significantly, that this was darker than the lower hull further below.  The same can just be seen under the pendant number in this poor quality image of her departing John Brown’s in overall Home Fleet grey (HFG):

 

 

Judging by the draught marks at the bow, the lower edge of the HFG/upper edge of the black boot topping on the lower hull remained in the same position at the time of the photos you have linked to taken some months later when she was in the dark hull/light upperworks scheme. This says to me that the boot topping was not over-painted.  

 

I’m inclined to discount the illustration on the cover of “Artic Destroyers” suggesting no boot topping and a red bottom colour coming up to meet the HFG at the time of the Vaagso Raid. No Admiralty Fleet Order in force at that time would explain/sanction that on a Fleet destroyer. Also, apart from the photographic evidence (above) that there was a boot topping, the artist has erroneously depicted Onslow in overall HFG whereas she was in dark hull/light upperworks at that time and he has omitted the flotilla markings on Onslow’s funnel. I suspect that the illustration was based on this bit of film:

 

 

Re the colour of the lower hull below the boot topping, I’m afraid that DoY’s bottom colour has no bearing on Onslow’s despite them both being built in the same shipyard. Which of the various potential manufacturers was used to supply the bottom paint for Onslow is what matters.  Ships being built in the same shipyard at the same time could and did have different bottom paint and this came in different colours. We need to know whose paint was used for Onslow’s bottom. Unfortunately I don’t think any record re Onslow has survived. Based on the Ensign photo we can rule out black so I’m afraid that probably leaves it as a 50/50 toss-up between red or grey.

 

(I suspect that 25ft boat just remained dark grey when they painted the upperworks light grey.)

Edited March 9, 2022 by dickrd

[Ships doc]

@dickrd Thank you for taking the time to look over this & such a detailed reply! I am glad you agree with the assessment. 

 

I had not spotted the lower hull below the boot topping on the photos in & leaving John Brown's. I also have the DoY 'Anatomy from building to breaking' book which shows a few photos of Onslow in the background. Interesting that the lower hull paint varied between ships even within the same yard. I will probably go for Red as I already have some of this from @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies.

 

The painting from 'Arctic destroyers' - agree that it came from that still, it is virtually identical. 

 

Also interesting is the deterioration in the HFG paint in 1942 from months of operations. I don't think I will try to replicate this....  

 

I think we have discussed the appearances in late 1942 before, thinking white / MS3 / B6 / 507c as most likely (based on tone equivalents in the 1943 design). 

 

I noticed recently in the CB3098 1943 there is a reference to the original design for the SEFD scheme: 

para 181: 

"In the original design, a shade of green is used instead of the light grey shade G.45 and a shade of blue instead of the blue-grey shade B.30."

Reading this I wondered if these could have been western approaches shades? Although I have not seen any reference to this, given that the SEFD base colour is white, and the angular nature of the patterns - would it make sense that SEFD 'evolved' from western approaches, with the MS3/G20 panel added over?

 

In relation to this there is also this painting by Charles Pears: 

https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-12174

There are issues with the accuracy of this painting (eg. looks like quad 0.5in MG on bridge wings, which Onslow never had, Mast DF is wrong etc) but the record says it was painted in 1943. 

But I think this does look a bit like a lighter more vivid green on the fwd panel (we previously said MS3, which was a murky green), and a blue tone on the aft superstructure (could be 507c or WA Blue?), and the dark panel on the hull (maybe MS3?). 

 

Conscious that this all might be a bit tenuous, esp given issues with interpreting colours from paintings but interested to hear thoughts! 

 

Thanks again 

James 

[Ships doc]

Just in addition to the above, I re-read the sections in Williams & Hodges books on naval camouflage - both imply that the SEFD scheme was a adaptation of western approaches. Williams also lists western approaches blue as one of the tones - not sure what the primary be evidence for this is though.

[Graham Boak]

Blue was used in the Western Approaches when the use of green paint by the RN and the Army was prohibited, because of the shortage of the pigment and priority being given to the RAF.