Goodbye to Humbrol Enamel???

[Space Ranger]

This was posted on Hyperscale:

 

”Found in the latest SpotModel newsletter.

MEKO
Until this morning we didn't know what "MEKO" meant, but in this newsletter we are going to explain it to you. There is a chemical substance called "BUTANONE OXIME" (Methyl Ethyl Ketoxime, MEKO; CAS 96-29-7) which is known in the chemical world as "MEKO".
The classification on the danger of this product was "category 2 carcinogen H351 - Suspected of causing cancer" until now, but since Tuesday March 1st, according to the "18th ATP to CLP Regulation (EC No 1272/2008)", it has now been classified as "category 1B carcinogen H350 - May cause cancer" hence, following European regulations, products containing more than 0.1% of "MEKO" become very dangerous for health.
Unfortunately for us modellers, Humbrol's Enamel paints are affected by this regulation, and this implies that we are forced to stop selling them :(((
At SpotModel we are going to start removing their products from our shelves and proceed with their proper destruction. Goodbye to our beloved Humbrol Enamel paints.”

 

True? 

[John Thompson]

Interesting; FWIW, Spotmodel is located in Spain; here's their site, with the MEKO announcement:

https://www.spotmodel.com/

 

Humbrol's quality has been on a rollercoaster for years, but I assume they can reformulate their product to comply. The initial hit might be substantial if their existing stocks are unsellable, at least under European regulations - the announcement does say "this implies that we are forced to stop selling them", which is different from, "The government inspector will be here any minute to witness the destruction of this hell-brew of deadly chemicals". How many other enamel producers could be affected, I wonder.

 

John

[ckw]

3 minutes ago, John Thompson said:

Humbrol's quality has been on a rollercoaster for years

I suspect that's been at least in part due to changes made to comply with H&S legislation. I guess someone has been painting mice with the stuff.  Sooner or later we'll have to figure out how to paint models using nursery school poster paint 😄. 

 

Given that Humbrol actively markets globally, the rule changes in various countries must be a real pain.

 

I wonder if anyone has done any studies which show if modellers (with our various toxic products) are statistically more likely to get cancer or other health problems. 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Graham Boak]

Methyl Ethyl Ketone, presumably a closely related substance, has been known to be carcinogenic for a long time.  It was used by modellers as an adhesive under the name of Mekpak, and as far as I know sill may be.  The problem lay when the fumes existed in the proximity of heat, whereupon it decomposed to carbon tetrachloride, definitely carcinogenic if not downright toxic.  However I would wait for further confirmation, especially as now having left the EEC, we are promised that all ,kind of unsafe and unhealthy practices will now be permitted.

 

Jerry Scutts did tell me of one modeller he knew who had to abandon modelling because he developed an allergy to the paint.  It seems safe that others will have existed before and since.  Given the small proportion of modellers in the population, I suspect that it would be rather difficult to distinguish any effect given all the other actual or potential carcinogens we are exposed to.  There are many thousand chemicals in widespread use that have never been tested, let alone approved, for human use.

[John Thompson]

22 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

 we are promised that all ,kind of unsafe and unhealthy practices will now be permitted.

 

Let the good times roll! 

 

John

[Orso]

I looked at the Revell homepage and their paint contains it as well so I 'll guess the will be affected too.

This isn't directed directly at hobby paint. It is for everything containing MEKO. I don't think that stating that modellers are a small part of the world is enough for an exception of the law.

[Graham Boak]

I wasn't suggesting that modellers could be excepted, but that because of the small size of the population it would be difficult to distinguish trends from all the other factors.  Particularly as no-one has been looking for any such correlation.  

 

I suspect I have enough tins of paint to last me out anyway,  though that would require significant substitution of equivalents and a careful choosing of subjects to use up the more plentiful stocks.  Perhaps some lowering in standards of what made an acceptable match?  However, that would only matter if Colourcoats were also affected.

 

More seriously, given the overall trend to various acrylics, particularly the more recent lacquers, would it really matter to the hobby as a whole?

[-Ian-]

5 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

However, that would only matter if Colourcoats were also affected.

 

Same here, they're the only currently produced enamels I use  (I do have a large stock of Humbrol enamels from the 70s, 80s and 90s but they're obviously unaffected).

 

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies - will this change in the law affect you?

[Sabrejet]

1 hour ago, ckw said:

Sooner or later we'll have to figure out how to paint models using nursery school poster paint 😄. 

 

That's pretty much what Vallejo is. And it's a pleasure to work with; it's also a pleasure to clean-up with water.

 

Meanwhile Humbrol hasn't been my go-to paint for at least a decade and I will not miss the white spirit clean-up and lengthy drying time for gloss.

[Graham Boak]

Using naptha as a thinner rather than white spirit will solve much of your problems with Humbrol, and other enamels.  Available as Colourcoats thinners, but no doubt elsewhere too.  Having found various water-based acrylics unsatisfactory in the past on the grounds of colour accuracy, I can't say that the superior lacquer ones less smelly than white spirit, if anything the contrary.  But these are not problems that would kill the hobby for me.  If I had to cope with compulsory priming and airbrushing, then I dare say I could get used to it. 

 

However, let's not make gross assumptions based on one press report dealing with one minor constituent.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

12 minutes ago, -Ian- said:

Same here, they're the only currently produced enamels I use  (I do have a large stock of Humbrol enamels from the 70s, 80s and 90s but they're obviously unaffected).

 

@Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies - will this change in the law affect you?

 

Having clocked the original post earlier this morning I anticipated this question and perceived a risk if I didn't make a statement on the subject since it's become a talking point. I've drafted a blog post which is being proof read right now - our formulation is ok though 👍

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

6 hours ago, John Thompson said:

 I assume they can reformulate their product to comply. 

 

Almost certainly. MEKO is typically just an anti-skinning agent added to help stop it skinning over inside the container as the name suggests. There are other options, although they can cause yellowing of the paint with time which is why MEKO was hitherto a preferred choice from a purely paint performance perspective.

[Circloy]

4 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

it's also a pleasure to clean-up with water

As you can drown in less than 1/4" (6mm) of water how long before it too is classified as dangerous and banned

[Trenton guy]

One thing to consider when talking about these kind of issues. The studies that support these kinds of governmental or quasi-governmental regulatory actions are based on occupational exposures (ie, continuous significant exposure 8 hours a day, 5 days a week). The typical Modeller experiences nothing like that, and exposure is the issue. I have been modelling for 70 years and have used nothing but enamels, except for some recent use of acrylic lacquers in the wake of the disappearance of my beloved Modelmaster. At 80 years young, I am feeling just fine thank you.

 

Regulations can be inflexible things (I know, I wrote and enforced them for all of my working life). Of necessity they look at worst case scenarios. Carving out exceptions for less hazardous uses quickly becomes administratively and technically complex, so we paint with a broad brush and the modeller’s occasional use gets swept in with the guy in the industrial spray booth.

 

Maybe I should quit while I am ahead but I won’t. This kerfuffle reminds of the silliness over air shipment of enamel hobby paints. Now enamel paints do pose a significant fire hazard. The most common method of mitigating such hazard is small quantities in small containers. That approach is taken to mitigate hazard when such materials must be handled in industrial settings. Without prudent approaches such as that, it would not be possible to manufacture electronic devises indoors ( there is some really bad stuff in your cell phone). Can you imagine a better example of that kind of mitigation than a few tiny tins of Xtracolor in an airmail package.

[ckw]

16 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

MEKO is typically just an anti-skinning agent added to help stop it skinning over inside the container

If that's the case, Humbrol must be using it wrong! Of the various enamel paint brands I use, Humbrol is by far the worst for skinning

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[3DStewart]

I suspect the OP may reporting/interpreting the regulations incorrectly.  There are a whole raft of chemicals that are hazardous or fatal but they continue to be permitted to be used provided the exposure to them is kept below certain limits.  Take  MEKO, you might have a tin that is pure MEKO, but unless you plan on drinking it you won't necessarily be exposed to harmful amounts. What matters is the concentration in the air (which depends on many things) and how long you are exposed to it.

I would wait for guidance from Humbrol and Revell before you start clearing your stocks.

I believe processed red meat is now regarded as "may cause cancer", but I haven't seen a rush to ban salami and bacon.  As for water, we'll that's now - at least in the UK - within the remit of COSHH (control of substances hazardous to health) as it has the potential to incubate and transmit legionella in artificial water systems.

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by 3DStewart

[pigsty]

3 hours ago, 3DStewart said:

I would wait for guidance from Humbrol and Revell before you start clearing your stocks.

I would also pause and think about it.  A company like Humbrol that's known for making paint isn't likely simply to give up making paint and close its doors, not if it can use an alternative (and that's assuming it has to).  And if it's possible to make Colourcoats without the stuff, well, there's an alternative right there.  So talk of OMG HUMBROL IS GOING OUT OF BUSINESS might be a teensy bit premature.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

On 3/4/2022 at 7:00 AM, ckw said:

Sooner or later we'll have to figure out how to paint models using nursery school poster paint 😄. 

Funnily enough my very first model was done with Glow in the dark fluorescent poster paints in 1979. It was an F-4E phantom Im pretty sure it was Testors/Italeri. It looked weird in Orange, Green, and Purple paint. 

[ckw]

4 hours ago, pigsty said:

Colourcoats without the stuff, well, there's an alternative right there. 

Quite possibly - but given CC is a better paint than Humbrol in every way, I have to assume it uses better, and presumably more expensive, ingrediants. Given that Humbrol already produce an acrylic range, I would not be surprised if Humbrol abandoned enamel if what has been reported is true. If they choose to reformulate without increasing costs, then I would expect another degradation in their enamel paint. The Humbrol of decades past was superb paint - I'm quite sure they didn't set out to produce inferior paint, but they have and I can only assume its all about production costs.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[alt-92]

15 hours ago, ckw said:

and I can only assume its all about production costs.

Don't ignore H&S regulations. 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

15 hours ago, ckw said:

Quite possibly - but given CC is a better paint than Humbrol in every way, I have to assume it uses better, and presumably more expensive, ingrediants

 

Hi Colin, I thank you for your kind comments and in return I cannot comment on what Humbrol's economics look like. I can however state that we couldn't compete with Humbrol on retail price or sell to anyone for typical trade price discounts necessary to arrive back at Humbrol retail price without making a significant percentage loss. We could shave a little bit off by dropping the painted lids in favour of printed stickers as Humbrol have, but by the time we've bought the empty tins (which have gone up in cost again recently) there wouldn't be much money left over for any paint to go inside them if selling at Humbrol's high street retail prices. It's possible Humbrol gets preferential pricing on empty tins due to high volumes purchased but it in our little cottage industry world, the tins would need to be free for us to even think of competing on retail price unless we used both much cheaper base oil and much cheaper liquid pigments (which are dry pigments, finely ground, then mixed with a suitable liquid so they can be squirted by a machine - the trick to which is having a supplier who can make the stuff consistently otherwise the same volume injected by the mixing machine will give a different result from one batch to the next - something which still happens with ours and needs manual correction on about half the batches made).

[Moggy]

On 04/03/2022 at 13:25, Space Ranger said:

”Found in the latest SpotModel newsletter.

MEKO
Until this morning we didn't know what "MEKO" meant, but in this newsletter we are going to explain it to you. There is a chemical substance called "BUTANONE OXIME" (Methyl Ethyl Ketoxime, MEKO; CAS 96-29-7) which is known in the chemical world as "MEKO".
The classification on the danger of this product was "category 2 carcinogen H351 - Suspected of causing cancer" until now, but since Tuesday March 1st, according to the "18th ATP to CLP Regulation (EC No 1272/2008)", it has now been classified as "category 1B carcinogen H350 - May cause cancer" hence, following European regulations, products containing more than 0.1% of "MEKO" become very dangerous for health.
Unfortunately for us modellers, Humbrol's Enamel paints are affected by this regulation, and this implies that we are forced to stop selling them :(((
At SpotModel we are going to start removing their products from our shelves and proceed with their proper destruction. Goodbye to our beloved Humbrol Enamel paints.”

 

 Sounds like a tantrum 😝

 

Some people think that health regulations are a commie plot to destroy business

 

Seriously - I've used Gunze and Tamiya acrylics since the end of the '80. They are much easier to work with touch-dry a lot faster, much less toxic, use ethyl alcohol as a solvent.

The only colours not replaceable as acrylics are metalics

 

Cheers, Moggy

 

[lasermonkey]

1 hour ago, dickbarton99 said:

do i get rid of my paint i have or not

If you use a respirator or suitable mask when spraying (and you should whatever you're shooting through your airbrush), wash your hands after using them and don't lick your models (I know how hard it is to resist!) and generally behave sensibly around chemicals of any kind, you should be fine. It's never a good idea to use chemicals in an confined area that isn't properly ventilated. Treat things that aren't air or water with respect.

 

I'm not about to ditch my Humbrol enamels as a result.

 

 

[Six97s]

On 04/03/2022 at 13:08, Graham Boak said:

Methyl Ethyl Ketone, presumably a closely related substance, has been known to be carcinogenic for a long time.  It was used by modellers as an adhesive under the name of Mekpak, and as far as I know sill may be.  The problem lay when the fumes existed in the proximity of heat, whereupon it decomposed to carbon tetrachloride, definitely carcinogenic if not downright toxic. 

 

I still use MEK - much cheaper to buy a litre than specialist hobby products.  I don't disagree that it should be treated with respect, but there is no way MEK can decompose to produce carbon tet. 

[Space Ranger]

On 3/6/2022 at 8:14 AM, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

Hi Colin, I thank you for your kind comments and in return I cannot comment on what Humbrol's economics look like. I can however state that we couldn't compete with Humbrol on retail price or sell to anyone for typical trade price discounts necessary to arrive back at Humbrol retail price without making a significant percentage loss. We could shave a little bit off by dropping the painted lids in favour of printed stickers as Humbrol have, but by the time we've bought the empty tins (which have gone up in cost again recently) there wouldn't be much money left over for any paint to go inside them if selling at Humbrol's high street retail prices. It's possible Humbrol gets preferential pricing on empty tins due to high volumes purchased but it in our little cottage industry world, the tins would need to be free for us to even think of competing on retail price unless we used both much cheaper base oil and much cheaper liquid pigments (which are dry pigments, finely ground, then mixed with a suitable liquid so they can be squirted by a machine - the trick to which is having a supplier who can make the stuff consistently otherwise the same volume injected by the mixing machine will give a different result from one batch to the next - something which still happens with ours and needs manual correction on about half the batches made).

As a confirmed and committed user of your paint, I say: “Don’t change a thing!”