fernandocouto Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Just heard of some Mach 2 kits re-releasing. I've learnt poor quality of this brand, but there are some impressive topics, at least to me. From online pics we can see crude details and "fogged" transparent parts, except these, any big issues at Mach 2 kits? If I build one, what "warning" should I concern with? Thanks in advance. I'd like to get Ar 232 and Bv 142 kits, although Airmodel is much cheaper, I have no idea how to deal with such large vacu parts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Sometimes the shape is not quite correct - e.g. my WB-57F has a wing section which is symmetrical, not an aerofoil, and the Valiant had a strange nose compared to the real thing. Also the WB-57F had a lot of surface pitting and the undercarriage was not very well moulded, nothing that can't be overcome. I haven't quite finished painting it but I think the result will look good and I will have the warm glow that comes from completing something more difficult than standard. If you do the preparation - sand the mating surfaces, fill and sand the rough areas, clean up or replace the details - before you start assembly then it should be ok. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelldoc Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 The clear parts and the decals are a nightmare. If you solve this problem you come to an acceptable result. My kit are here: Avro York: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/51152834252/in/dateposted/ Vickers Viscount: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/5326288543/in/photolist-97EC26 Convair 440: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/50500117653/in/dateposted/ modelldoc 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fernandocouto Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 7 hours ago, rossm said: Sometimes the shape is not quite correct - e.g. my WB-57F has a wing section which is symmetrical, not an aerofoil, and the Valiant had a strange nose compared to the real thing. Also the WB-57F had a lot of surface pitting and the undercarriage was not very well moulded, nothing that can't be overcome. I haven't quite finished painting it but I think the result will look good and I will have the warm glow that comes from completing something more difficult than standard. If you do the preparation - sand the mating surfaces, fill and sand the rough areas, clean up or replace the details - before you start assembly then it should be ok. Treat it as a low-pressure injected kit is OK? Or Mach 2 also use limited-run moulds. 4 hours ago, modelldoc said: The clear parts and the decals are a nightmare. If you solve this problem you come to an acceptable result. My kit are here: Avro York: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/51152834252/in/dateposted/ Vickers Viscount: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/5326288543/in/photolist-97EC26 Convair 440: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/50500117653/in/dateposted/ modelldoc Nice work. Decal is easy to replace, but clear parts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACALAIN Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 4 hours ago, modelldoc said: The clear parts and the decals are a nightmare. If you solve this problem you come to an acceptable result. My kit are here: Avro York: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/51152834252/in/dateposted/ Vickers Viscount: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/5326288543/in/photolist-97EC26 Convair 440: https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/50500117653/in/dateposted/ modelldoc You are courageous Alain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vingtor Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I have several Mach2 kits in the stash, and I have actually built one - the Dassault Falcon 20. That was some 25-30 years ago when my expectations were lower. As the model was stolen (!) I have planned to build another one. However, I am not sure what would be the best way, scratchbuilding or struggling with the Mach2 kit. I did some initial preparations some years ago, but these prevented me from starting the build. The poor (uselessly) transparencies and crude surfaces come on top. I have also accidentally acquired the Caravelle kit, which I never will build. A big problem with the Dassault 20 kit is that the fuselage halves are not symmetrical. The windows and wings do not sit at the same height, making the model somewhat misaligned. This could be corrected, but it would involve major surgery and a lot of work. The main problem with the Mach2 kits is that they bloc the market from new kits. E.g. A-Model has a very nice kit of the Falcon 50. And a Falcon 20 kit would be a natural successor, but as there already "exist a kit", the limit for producing a new one gets much higher. I will someday build another Dassault 20. But I will use as little as possible from the Mach2 kit. The fuselage front and middle sections will probably come from the A-Model Dassault 50. Nils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds. Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Apparently one of the Viscount boxings ( or more) had the wing chord profile upside down, not an easy or short fix. I am desperate for a good 72nd Viscount but I am pinning my hopes on Welsh Models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 The kits are demanding, since you have to correct even the surface on some places however they gives you opportunity to do model of species not present in any other form. I have some experience with Mach 2 kits. I've build Consolidated Coronado, Martin Mariner, He 114, Bloch MB 131, two Amiots 351/354 (one converted into 370. the other one 354). All them are on BM RFI section if you like to search for, they have the WIPs as well. In stash still I have next few of them, namely: BV 139, Ju 352, Ar 232 and I hope nit to wait too long with those builds... Regarding Ar 232 - I have it in stash and recently I have bought the ultra clear vacu canopy set for it https://www.scalemates.com/pl/kits/ap-modely-apv-72012-vacu-canopy-arado-ar-232--979077 . This opens a new perspective for build! Because indeed, the clear parts are nightmare but so far only in case of He 114 I decided for a scratch build one. In case of Mariner and Coronado the main canopies were from kits but as far as I remember the turrets were replacements. In other cases I have used the kit clear parts. If you sand out the frames and polish it they became better. Some accuracy problems appears, for instance in case of French bombers the props were done with the same pitch were should be left and right handed always. Form instance my Coronado is here And Mariner I hope I encouraged you! regards J-W 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orso Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 3 hours ago, Vingtor said: A big problem with the Dassault 20 kit is that the fuselage halves are not symmetrical. The windows and wings do not sit at the same height, making the model somewhat misaligned. The same problem seems to be with their Caravelle as well. I'm afraid to look at the two Mach 2 kits I have in the stash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilneBay Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I've built two Mach 2 kits. The Convair Sea Dart and the NA B45. They were a challenge to say the least but with some care they can turn out OK. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarLos Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 If, as I suspect, the BV 142 kit has the same wings of the Bv Ha 139 you will face a big challenge. The wing panels angle is completely wrong. This is the sort of things you have in almost Mach 2 kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 I built one Mach Poo kit, and that was enough for me. It was their Valiant, and I had to take a 2-3 year break before I could face finishing it 🐷 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverkite211 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 These kits have a message in them and the message is 'BEWARE, these kits are not for building they are for laying down and avoiding!' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Barett Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 23/02/2022 at 06:51, fernandocouto said: Just heard of some Mach 2 kits re-releasing. I've learnt poor quality of this brand, but there are some impressive topics, at least to me. From online pics we can see crude details and "fogged" transparent parts, except these, any big issues at Mach 2 kits? If I build one, what "warning" should I concern with? Thanks in advance. I'd like to get Ar 232 and Bv 142 kits, although Airmodel is much cheaper, I have no idea how to deal with such large vacu parts.... I think the general advice regarding Mach 2 kits boils down to "Avoid!" but you can't. When you'r in the plastic model building for some time, you will be bored by the 100000000th iteration of Spitfires and 109s (none of them still right or the "best" not in your scale), but you will also have made the experience: - once you have decided to scratch build an urgently needed model not commercially available, shortly before completion a Vacu kit will appear. - once you have decided to tackle the vacu kit of an urgently needed model not commercially available, shortly before completion a (still crummy) short run injection moulded kit will appear. So you halt the vacu kit, put the short run thing into your stash and ponder. - once you have decided to tackle the short run kit of an urgently needed model not commercially available, shortly before completion a not so crummy injection moulded kit will appear. So you halt the short run kit, buy the better ine ans start happy modelling. - shorly after completion of the pretty much OK injection model, a "real" injection moulded kit from a "real" company (i.e. Tamiya, Hasegawa, Fujimi) will appear in the market (still having a few faults, but it is just a shake and bake kit with nice decals) - maybe you do another one after having successfully hunted down 3rd party additons (resin, photo-etch, machined barrels, ...) - did the "Tamiya" kit anyway? Proud of the result? Some small scale manufacturer will turn out an even better kit. But unless you buy all the crummy kits, the good one will never appear on the market! Ever wanted a Focke Wulf Ta 154 fourty years ago? Been there, done that, got the T-shirt! Forget about Ar 232 and Bv 142, build a nice Spitfire or 109! 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Don't buy one unless you really like the subject and are prepared to work on it, don't expect too much and hope that you're lucky with your choice, as clearly they do differ. The only one I've build is the Amiot. The parts were thick, but fitted together well enough. Detail was limited, but what else would you expect? My only real complaint is that the transparencies were poor and Falcon didn't see fit to do an alternative, but then you'd see clearly into the cockpit which probably wouldn't help. Somehow, I don't believe that the reason no-one else has done an Amiot is because Mach 2 did. And now I have an Amiot - or will have when I paint the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The wooksta V2.0 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 I've a few Mach Poo kits tucked away - Ar 232, Ju 352, DH Comet 4 - but whilst I've wrestled the Valiant together, I've yet to spray it, albeit in a 70s tanker scheme. TBH, whilst it was a pain, it was a lot less painful than the Matchbox Victor. But yes, the best advice is simply "Run away! Run away!" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markh-75 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 On 23/02/2022 at 21:11, JWM said: The kits are demanding, since you have to correct even the surface on some places however they gives you opportunity to do model of species not present in any other form. I have some experience with Mach 2 kits. I've build Consolidated Coronado, Martin Mariner, He 114, Bloch MB 131, two Amiots 351/354 (one converted into 370. the other one 354). All them are on BM RFI section if you like to search for, they have the WIPs as well. In stash still I have next few of them, namely: BV 139, Ju 352, Ar 232 and I hope nit to wait too long with those builds... Regarding Ar 232 - I have it in stash and recently I have bought the ultra clear vacu canopy set for it https://www.scalemates.com/pl/kits/ap-modely-apv-72012-vacu-canopy-arado-ar-232--979077 . This opens a new perspective for build! Because indeed, the clear parts are nightmare but so far only in case of He 114 I decided for a scratch build one. In case of Mariner and Coronado the main canopies were from kits but as far as I remember the turrets were replacements. In other cases I have used the kit clear parts. If you sand out the frames and polish it they became better. Some accuracy problems appears, for instance in case of French bombers the props were done with the same pitch were should be left and right handed always. Form instance my Coronado is here And Mariner I hope I encouraged you! regards J-W I have the Coronado but after seeing what's in the box I'm actually dreading trying to make it! It looks pretty dreadful, the clear parts aren't, I was thinking of painting inside of them all with silver and painting the outside with the fuselage colours, no matter what I was to do in the cockpit, I'd never see it anyway! Any tips on building this model? I would like to see it in my collection but am loathe to start it; maybe I should hold off a bit longer until I have much more experience!? regards, Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 I've built a couple, to the point where they're almost finished. They're hard work, but if you persevere you should eventually get there. Often it's a case of "needs must when the devil drives" - where else are you going to get an injection moulded Argosy, for example? Others have mentioned the lack of symmetry in some places. That's something you have to decide whether you'll fix or live with. The transparencies aren't - most of the ones I've seen are distinctly cloudy. It's not something that can be polished out, because the cloudiness seems to be part of the structure of the plastic rather than a surface flaw. See if you can find a vacformed replacement, otherwise use the kit piece, modified as necessary, as a master to mould one yourself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Markh-75 said: I have the Coronado but after seeing what's in the box I'm actually dreading trying to make it! It looks pretty dreadful, the clear parts aren't, I was thinking of painting inside of them all with silver and painting the outside with the fuselage colours, no matter what I was to do in the cockpit, I'd never see it anyway! Any tips on building this model? I would like to see it in my collection but am loathe to start it; maybe I should hold off a bit longer until I have much more experience!? regards, Mark. A tip? There are couple of them in WIP thread All the best with taking your wrestling round with this stuff! , It brings the joy of modelling! regards J-W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsr Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 I have built 8 of them: E-1B, RB-57F, X-24A, X-24B, B-45, X-13, YF2Y-1, and P6M-2. They were all buildable and were completed. But they all had the following problems to one degree or another. Translucent "clear" parts with poorly marked seemingly random framing The ejector pins leave too towers on the inside and marks on the outside. poor left right symmetry. Tons of flash and huge pours. Sometimes their decals are good, but mostly not. Sometimes it looks like the 2 haves of the mold don't align. So parts that should be round are a semicircle offset onto another semicircle Their plastic has weird properties, like being hyper sensitive to liquid cement and delaminating. It also breaks easily. There will be short shots where the plastic did not completely fill the mold. Sometimes it looks like the parts broke in manufacture and they just crudely glues them back together and stuck them in the box. On the plus side I was missing the transparency on the P6M Seamaster, and when I contacted them, they were very friendly and mailed me a new on right away. In the case of the E-1B which is really a variant of the S2F, it helped to have the Hasegawa S2F kit to donate parts. You have to approach them as you would a lower tier resin kit. Good luck 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen Barett Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 I forgot the "lower tier resin kit" in my experience, but it seems "Ma__ch" left out the "__so__" in the middle of their name. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsr Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 not to beat a dead horse but you might find this article amusing: https://modelingmadness.com/review/korean/us/hammx2.htm 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fernandocouto Posted February 26, 2022 Author Share Posted February 26, 2022 On 24/02/2022 at 06:57, CarLos said: If, as I suspect, the BV 142 kit has the same wings of the Bv Ha 139 you will face a big challenge. The wing panels angle is completely wrong. This is the sort of things you have in almost Mach 2 kit. So I'd like to build other kits on my stash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markh-75 Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 Should I try to have a go at my Coronado, what glue do I use, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomprobert Posted February 26, 2022 Share Posted February 26, 2022 I’ve built the 1/72 scale DC-8 which is a relatively recent release and it wasn’t all that bad, other than the engine pylons needed some work as they were too deep and the engines touched the ground! In short, if you like ‘shake and bake’: avoid. If you like a challenge: dive right in! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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