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Kelly's Heroes - Did Tigers have to keep their engines warm in France?


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25 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

1. I liked Carroll O'Connor as the general in this, never liked him in that US version of 'Till Death Us Do Part' - it was the part and he played just too well - kinda reminded me of my bigoted and racist father too much

2. I gotta check out what Oddball has in his holster, Don't look like any 1911A1 to me. [at 0.33] [ a P.08?] I've got the pattern for making a US tanker's holster

 

Its a P08, check out the Internet Movie Firearms Database http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Kelly's_Heroes its good for identifying guns in films. Interesting that the 1911s weren't 1911s but Polish Vis wz. 35 pistols.

 

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3 hours ago, fatfingers said:

Great film and John Landis was a production assistant on it. Whilst he was working on the film he came up with and started writing the story for An American Werewolf In London! 

Must have been inspired by Oddball's dog impressions!

 

Cheers

 

Colin

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Yes Black Knight , I get the title but the words don`t  equate to the movie , that was my point . But what the heck , it`s a catchy song .

" Play it again , Sam " .

                                  Don .

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I read an interesting, and sad story about the filming of Kelly’s Heroes. 
there’s a scene where they are all sitting on top of a Sherman as it drives through a small village.
At the side of the road, sits an old man, one of the villagers, and he stands up to watch them as they disappear into the distance. 
seconds later, the man collapses from a heart attack. 
The film crew rush over to help, but he was already dead. 
The crew and the actors, all  chipped in and paid for his funeral. 
 

Gary

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Words of the song;

 

Friends all tried to warn me
But I held my head up high
All the time they warned me
But I only passed them by

They all tried to tell me
But I guess I didn't care
I turned my back and
Left them standing there

All the burning bridges that have fallen after me
All the lonely feelings and the burning memories
Everyone I left behind each time I closed the door
Burning bridges lost forevermore

Joey tried to help me find a job
A while ago
When I finally got it I didn't want to go
The party Mary gave for me
When I just walked away
Now there's nothing left for me to say

All the burning bridges that have fallen after me
All the lonely feelings and the burning memories
Everyone I left behind each time I closed the door
Burning bridges lost forevermore

Years have passed and I keep thinking
What a fool I've been
I look back into the past and
Think of way back then
I know that I lost everything I thought I that could win
I guess I should have listened to my friends

All the burning bridges that have fallen after me
All the lonely feelings and the burning memories
Everyone I left behind each time I closed the door
Burning bridges lost forevermore

Burning bridges lost forevermore

 

Does not the first two verses describe the soldiers deciding on the raid despite being advised by Telly Savalas not to do it?

Third verse; 'Joey' = Big Joe was Telly Savalas - he gave jobs to the men when he left them to get the films,  'Mary' and 'a party', well, the men were supposed to be on R&R at the ruined cottage

Fourth verse; looking back in regret, having gained a share in the gold, he had to give up returning to family and old friends,

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On 2/22/2022 at 12:52 PM, Black Knight said:

btw, contrary to popular knowledge; the Germans had enough captured Allied, mostly US, equipment to full equip 2 1/2 Divisions - that about 15,000 men

 

 

 

Otto Slorzeny  was desperate for allied tanks and other vehicles for Unternehmen Greif, the false flag operation in conjunction with the December 1944 Ardennes attack.  Hitler conceived the idea and Skorzeny was given the complete support of the OKW.  Skorzeny requested 15 Shermans and 20 SP Guns and 20 armored cars, as well as over 300 support vehicles.  The only allied vehicles the Germans could muster were two armored cars and two Shermans in such poor condition that they  broke down prior to the attack and were not used.

 

Edited by Ingo Ritz
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Don Rickles was the king of the roast he's on top form with Eastwood here,check out his seventies and eighties stuff especially with

Ronals Reagan.

 

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On 22/02/2022 at 21:52, Black Knight said:

1. I liked Carroll O'Connor as the general in this, never liked him in that US version of 'Till Death Us Do Part' - it was the part and he played just too well - kinda reminded me of my bigoted and racist father too much

 

A fair point but, I think a lot of people generally failed to get the point that the Alf Garnett character in Till Death Us Do Part was actually intended as a parody of such people. That was the whole idea, taking the mince out of them!

I used to work beside someone just like Alf Garnett! He was a bad joke and , he was treated as such.

I'm genuinely sorry though that the TV show you mention brought back bad memories? All in the Family wasn't it? I can totally see though how it might upset you personally.

 

To be honest, I didn't find it remotely funny but, I think that's largely because humour doesn't always translate well. I thought Till Death was hilarious!

 

John

Edited by Beermonster1958
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If someone has not already done it, a nice set of figures depicting Clint Eastwood, Telly Savalas and Donald Sutherland in their Kelly's Heroes roles approaching the German tank commander to blow the bank doors so they can all be rich after the war would be nice diorama material.

The movie was intended to be a bit light hearted and tongue in cheek rather than factual, hence the Oddball character and other cliche'd characters.

Edited by Noel Smith
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5 hours ago, Noel Smith said:

If someone has not already done it, a nice set of figures depicting Clint Eastwood, Telly Savalas and Donald Sutherland in their Kelly's Heroes roles approaching the German tank commander to blow the bank doors so they can all be rich after the war would be nice diorama material.

Gidday, further to @Noel Smith above, I've seen it done but I don't know who by. Every year here in Perth West Oz  (pre-covid) there is a modeling show and in 2015 there was displayed a diorama of exactly that - Kelly, Big Joe and Oddball making a 'Deal' deal, complete with Big Joe's hand hanging off the tank's gun muzzle. I have a photo of it but unfortunately it was before I knew how to down-sized the camera photos. It's about 3000 x 4000 pixels, 6meg, probably too large to post. If my son can shrink it for me I'll post it.

Regards, Jeff.

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  • 2 months later...

I'm gonna be the 'Oddbal' here and say although it was made as a light-hearted piece of fiction to contrast the reality of the war it's actually now uncomfortable to watch if you do it from a different perspective.

The plot is a serving US NCO who is basically guilty of desertion to rustle up a renegade mob to plunder the national assets of a war torn, occupied country, the citizens of the town welcome them as liberating heroes when their only intention is to rob the bank of it's gold. All the heroism and acts of bravery are not for the aim to free the oppressed from fascism, halt the genocide and bring the war criminals to trial but purely for greed, with the film concluding as them being successful and unpunished for their war crimes.

A depressing and sombre alternative view in stark contrast to the generation of the time but one which fits in with the self righteous,  selectively critical, Millenial generation of today. ☹️

 

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To paraphrase Donald Sutherland from an interview in the 1970’s. He was the only actor to play two hippies in two different wars. He played “Oddball” in WW2 and “Hawkeye” in the movie Mash (Korea). 

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7 hours ago, Swiftnbold said:

A depressing and sombre alternative view in stark contrast to the generation of the time but one which fits in with the self righteous,  selectively critical, Millenial generation of today. ☹️

 

Agreed. Irony seems to have dropped off the collective psyche.  (Not to mention satire....)

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7 hours ago, Swiftnbold said:

The plot is a serving US NCO who is basically guilty of desertion to rustle up a renegade mob to plunder the national assets of a war torn, occupied country,

Gidday, I thoroughly enjoyed the movie but I agree with you regarding the plot - they deserted and killed for private gain, not in their role as soldiers fighting an enemy. I don't know where the gold came from, whether it was from that French town or simply stored there in the short term. I think the latter as it wasn't in a vault.

     I guess that's where the theme song "Burning Bridges" come into it. They deserted during war, they certainly burnt their own bridges behind them.

But it was still a good movie.     Regards, Jeff.

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Not really.

The topic is "Kelley's Heroes" with a sub topic regarding The Tiger, that question has been answered and the replies have continued on the theme of the film.

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Wasn't the film loosely based on true events? During the turmoil of Berlin being bombed at the end of WW2 the Germans attempted to protect and hide away the gold of the Reichsbank in underground mines. After the war it was discovered that 2500 gold bars went missing supposedly by a joint US / German renegade group

https://www.military.com/history/story-behind-true-events-inspired-kellys-heroes.html

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nazi-Gold-Sensational-Greatest-Criminal/dp/1840187859

 

 

Also the actor who plays Mulligan in the film is George Savalas (Telly's younger brother). He is responsible for the highly inaccurate aerial bombing....'Mulligan' comes from the term in golf for a second shot due to inaccuracy/blunder.

 

 

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On 5/7/2022 at 4:40 PM, Swiftnbold said:

I'm gonna be the 'Oddbal' here and say although it was made as a light-hearted piece of fiction to contrast the reality of the war it's actually now uncomfortable to watch if you do it from a different perspective.

The plot is a serving US NCO who is basically guilty of desertion to rustle up a renegade mob to plunder the national assets of a war torn, occupied country, the citizens of the town welcome them as liberating heroes when their only intention is to rob the bank of it's gold. All the heroism and acts of bravery are not for the aim to free the oppressed from fascism, halt the genocide and bring the war criminals to trial but purely for greed, with the film concluding as them being successful and unpunished for their war crimes.

A depressing and sombre alternative view in stark contrast to the generation of the time but one which fits in with the self righteous,  selectively critical, Millenial generation of today. ☹️

 

 

As a member of the "self-righteous, millennial generation of today", guilty as charged!

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On 2/25/2022 at 7:17 PM, stevej60 said:

Don Rickles was the king of the roast

My favourite line: 

Crapgame (Rickles): Hey, Oddball, this is your moment of glory. And you're chickening out!

Oddball (Sutherland): To a New Yorker like you, a Hero is some type of weird sandwich, not some nut who takes on 3 Tigers.

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7 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

This thread has gone a looooooong way off-topic............!

 

3 hours ago, Swiftnbold said:

Not really.

The topic is "Kelley's Heroes" with a sub topic regarding The Tiger, that question has been answered and the replies have continued on the theme of the film.

I took it to be a question about Tigers using the film as an example....................

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Posted (edited)

In further news.........

 

The HL230 engine had an interlock which prevented the electric starter from engaging unless there was a certain minimum oil pressure registering.  A sound engineering idea to prevent engine damage - until you put it in the context of The Good Guys appearing suddenly and you need to fire up the Mighty Maybach.

 

Problem there is that as a dry sump design with 3 oil pumps and a separate oil reservoir tank the oil pressure wouldn't last long above the minimum with the engine stopped.  Once it dropped below minimum the only remedy was to hand crank the engine to restore the pressure.  Not ideal with The Good Guys bearing down on you and small arms rounds cracking past your ear..........

 

So this was another reason for running up the engine from time to time as per the film.

 

For those who don't know - and with apologies to those who do - something similar was required on the radial-engined US tanks.  There was no interlock like the Maybach but radial engines had no sump either and at rest the oil would soon drain into the bottom cylinder(s).  Hand-cranking was advised to distribute the oil before starting and to avoid hydralic lock.  Although it was possible to start the engine without hand cranking first, at the risk of damage.  In the early days of M3s in N Africa British crews unfamiliar with the engines were regularly burning out engines.  So much so that the US was air-freighting replacement engines straight off the production line direct to theatre.

Edited by Das Abteilung
Correction
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On 2/22/2022 at 5:20 PM, sardaukar said:

 

Its a P08, check out the Internet Movie Firearms Database http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Kelly's_Heroes its good for identifying guns in films. Interesting that the 1911s weren't 1911s but Polish Vis wz. 35 pistols.

 


The 1911 really struggles with .45 blank rounds. 
You basically have to hand cycle each round. 
 

If you watch The Getaway, (1972) with Steve McQueen, there’s lots of Non 1911, 1911 action in that movie. 
The Star Model B in 9mm was used for the shooting scenes, as it looks a lot like a 1911 but cycles blanks easily. 
 

My other, other, job, is hand fitting/building 1911’s. 
 


 

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9 minutes ago, Longbow said:


 

 

My other, other, job, is hand fitting/building 1911’s. 
 


 

STI, or...?

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