Decaling - Is gloss clearcoat primer/sealer really important?

[davefr]

I've built a Hasegawa B-26 and an preparing for the final phase which is decaling.  Everything I read and watch says to apply a coat of clear varnish (Pledge or Acrylic Varnish) to prime the surface for the decals and then another coat to seal the surface after the decal has dried. However I really don't want my model to look glossy when it's all done.  It's currently matte which I think looks more authentic.  Do you all recommend adding some flattening agent to the top coat of clear so the sealer coat isn't glossy?  In my case I have Humbrol Clear Gloss Acrylic Varnish.  Also, would you prime the entire model with clear before the decaling or just in the vacinity of where the decals will go?

 

TIA

[Mark Harmsworth]

There are many answers to this seemingly simple question but decals generally need a smooth surface and a good way to achieve that is a coat of gloss varnish (which could just be where the decals are to be applied). Then apply the decals. Then seal the decals with your preferred finish (I often use a satin finish but that's a personal thing). Decals on top of a matt finish may produce the silvering that shows the decal hasn't adhered properly. 

Mark

 

[Ade H]

Whenever some ancient sage flat out claims that we have to use a gloss coat under decals and we have to seal decals, it really gets on my neck because I know from my own experience that they are wrong to make such a silly blanket statement. Most decals can be applied over any half-decent paint finish -- heck, one well-known YT modeller has demonstrated the successful application of a decal on sandpaper -- and they do not normally need to be sealed. Sealed against what exactly? A cured decal is at least as hard to damage as any paint finish. You can weather right over them.

 

The time to use a clear coat of any kind over or under a decal is when you know why you need to do it; otherwise, it's a waste of time and effort. Do you need to use a solvent which damages your chosen paint? Seal it. Tested a spare decal and found the carrier to be problematic? Overcoat and sand to blend. Got a sheen difference? Cover it. Don't know how to apply decals? Practice...

 

Take a look at this cropped photo, which shows a Tecmod decal directly over Model Air with no clear coat below or above it, and tell me if you can see any problems. Apart from the mediocre weathering, I mean; this was made a couple of years ago, but it illustrates my point.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Ade H

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, davefr said:

However I really don't want my model to look glossy when it's all done.

use matt varnish as a top coat.

2 hours ago, davefr said:

I've built a Hasegawa B-26 and an preparing for the final phase which is decaling.

Not all decals are the same,  and wht work in one case, may not in another. Are you using the kit decals?  

Japanese decals are often thick, and need at the least hot water.  

 

2 hours ago, davefr said:

Also, would you prime the entire model with clear before the decaling or just in the vacinity of where the decals will go?

you can just apply below the decals, but then you can get patches..   As stated a smooth paint finish alone can work.  

You can also use Kleer/future to 'bed' decals

 

From your questions, it seems you may not have much experience in decalliing?   I suggest if there are spare decals on the sheet, trying out those on something else,  ideally painted or prepared as your model is, to see how they behave. 

 

 The biggest factors in play are how the model is prepared, even matt finish can be polished, how thick the decals are, see note Japanese decals, though some hasegawa kit have much thinner decals,  and how carrier film they have.

 

In this case, I'd be specific about the actual boxing, or are you using aftermaket decals, 

 

As the other poster suggest,  there is no golden rule,  just a variety of possible ways.  The only really important thing is you are happy with the finished result.  I see plenty of people on here who get good results using a variety of techniques and materials,  so find what works for you.

 

I repeat myself, If in doubt, test out using spares on something else....

 

HTH

[jackroadkill]

This build had a decent coat of Mr Hobby's Mr Super Clear gloss sprayed on it prior to the application of decals:

 

 

This picture shows it when it had been decalled and had a thin coat of Winsor and Newton's matt Galleria sprayed over the top.  It went from as shiny as a new car to this in less than ten minutes.  I find that a gloss coat helps (but I wouldn't say that it's essential) and have tried many different varieties before deciding on the Mr Super Clear.

 

 

[Charles H]

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but after deciding to coat Humbrol Clear Gloss on a Hasegawa 1:72 MiG-29 prior to applying the decals, I then overcoated everything with Humbrol Clear Matt, with little improvement. It still looked ridiculously glossy.

 

It never occurred to me to STIR the matt finish thoroughly first! I can't believe I was so stupid - and I'm a retired medical research assistant... the plane looked great after applying two coats of properly stirred matt clear. However, my topcoats of Humbrol enamel camouflage prior to the decals were not great, because I used very old paint, and more importantly didn't know enough to THIN it!

 

Thanks to people here, I'm learning slowly, and thoroughly enjoying it. The MiG was the first model I'd made in over 25 years, BTW. The dreaded Italieri 1:72 Gulf War Tornado I made next is better - although that was painted in Vallejo acrylic matt (a first for me) and the decals went on beautifully with no clear coats. I didn't even know for sure if it is "safe" to coat Humbrol Clear over acrylic topcoat(?)

[Mark Harmsworth]

16 hours ago, Ade H said:

Whenever some ancient sage flat out claims that we have to use a gloss coat under decals and we have to seal decals, it really gets on my neck because I know from my own experience that they are wrong to make such a silly blanket statement.

Well, as your post was directly after mine, I would guess you are taking issue with me.

 

You would  seem to be arguing against something that hasn't been said. At no point did I suggest that we have to use a gloss coat under decals (note the neat way I used your use of italics?). I merely offered it as a potential solution for the question(s) posed in the OP.

 

And how did you know that I am an ancient sage? I rather like that description - maybe I'll change my signature.

[Ade H]

@Mark Harmsworth Mark, your comment wasn't even posted while I was typing; so no, I wasn't referring to you. I'm sorry if you thought that I was, but you're inferring a message which doesn't exist.

[Tojo72]

I use Alclad Aqua Gloss for my decals,if it is going to be a flat finish,then I seal my decals with Alclad Matte.

On armor with only a few decals,I have had no problem spraying only the area of the decal with no issues,but if it's a plane with a load of decals,I will gloss the entire plane.

[Giorgio N]

There are pros and cons in adding a second clear coat over the decals. One advantage is that certain weathering techniques work better on a gloss surface (like washes) and if I want to apply these over the decals then these are better gloss coated too. A disadvantage is that this would be another coat on the model, meaning more paint that could fill recesses surface detail if this is shallow. In any case the final coat would not be this one, the final coat would follow and would be gloss, matt or semimatt depending on the subject.

Personally I sometime do it and mostly don't. The weathering techniques I use work fine on the decal so I just apply them after I've finished applying all decals, then I just spray a final coat of the required type.

Regarding sealing the decals in place, I have had a few instances in the past of decals detaching or falling apart over time, This would not have occurred with a coat of varnish over the decals. Mind, only happened on a few models after many, many years, so I was maybe just unlucky.. and decals today are a bit better than they used to be 40 years ago.

 

Different story regarding a gloss coat before the decals ! Yes, it is not strictly necessary, many decals work well on every surface and certain modellers manage to apply them on every surface.. but the question is: do you want to run the risk of silvering ? I've had decals showing some silvering even over a gloss coat while others from the same manufacturers worked fine. Again it may have been bad luck with a bad sheet, however just to be on the safe side I prefer to apply a gloss coat before the decals. It may not be necessary but I know it's not going to hurt.

[ckw]

11 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

I have had a few instances in the past of decals detaching or falling apart over time, This would not have occurred with a coat of varnish over the decals.

I have had decals fall apart over time despite the fact they had been given a top coat of varnish. Decals in question were Heller or Italeri of some 30 or so years ago. The varnish used was Humbrol Mattcote. But I'm pretty sure that these kits had not received a gloss coat before applying the decals. These days I always apply a gloss coat (Future) before decals except when using Xtracolor enamels which have a good gloss finish anyway. 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Markh-75]

I have learned much about decals since I got back to making models, I learned that I need to make sure that the surface the decal goes onto is sealed, I tried a few but found varied or even disastrous results! I recently changed my painting habits and I now thin all my paints, (I used to just paint outta the tin) I paint on more thinner coats and once I'm satisfied that the colour is full enough I do the touching in. Once dry I seal it with Johnsons Klear every time before applying decals. Sealing is absolutely necessary particularly if the paint is a matt finish. I never had any trouble once I started using Klear though. I apply decals and once dry and happy I carefully go over them with Klear to seal them down. Yes it makes the model shiny but you can use a matt varnish on top to matt it down again! 

I use Humbrol Mattcote and I thin it down at 2 parts mattcote to 1 part thinners (using Humbrol thinners for Humbrol paint thinning or varnish thinning. Much less sticky and it goes on much easier and evenly.

I have always brush painted, and I have always used enamels; its what I know, I always say 'go with what you know', I dont have the space for a proper airbrush set up and would never spray in the house. When I apply primer from the rattle can I choose a dry day and go outside. I'm happy doing that, I have learned quite alot and find I enjoy the hobby very much doing it it this way but am always learning as I go along.