billyharry2000 Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 Hi There Wonder if anyone could help with the colour of the sidewinder training rounds carried by the former GAF F-104g Starfighters of JG-71 on there wing tips. I believe they where also carried by the early F-4F Phantom's of JG-71 and JG-72,photos of the former GAF interceptor F-104s are hard to find. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisky Papa Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 Have you checked this site? Some former GAF-pilots are members of that forum. You could place your question there. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyharry2000 Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share Posted February 19, 2022 Many Thanks for that info Whiskey Papa will give that a try. Kind Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coneheadff Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 Checked all AIRDOC booklets about JG 71, 73 and 74 and all F-40 books (German book series about aircraft types which served with the GAF). Found only two or three photos of -9Bs with a dark colored body and white head. But unfortunately it's absolutely not possible to say if it's dark green or blue. There are also several photos of F-104s with completely green painted Sidewinders. But I think those were live ones and no training rounds. All other photos show completely white Sidewinders. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyharry2000 Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share Posted February 19, 2022 Thank you for that Alex most kind. Kind Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e8n2 Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 7 hours ago, coneheadff said: Checked all AIRDOC booklets about JG 71, 73 and 74 and all F-40 books (German book series about aircraft types which served with the GAF). Found only two or three photos of -9Bs with a dark colored body and white head. But unfortunately it's absolutely not possible to say if it's dark green or blue. There are also several photos of F-104s with completely green painted Sidewinders. But I think those were live ones and no training rounds. All other photos show completely white Sidewinders. Alex The standard color for training rounds, be it missiles or bombs, is a medium blue. Sorry I don't know the FS number off hand. I remember well back around `76 sometime they had a practice round fall off of one of our F-4Ds and it ended up making a hole in the roof of a farmer's barn. Some people went crazy thinking it could explode. Later, Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Hi @billyharry2000, I’d ask Giorgio @Giorgio N who, to me, is a fountain of F-104 knowledge. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 3 hours ago, e8n2 said: The standard color for training rounds, be it missiles or bombs, is a medium blue. Sorry I don't know the FS number off hand. I remember well back around `76 sometime they had a practice round fall off of one of our F-4Ds and it ended up making a hole in the roof of a farmer's barn. Some people went crazy thinking it could explode. Later, Dave Not necessarily true, other NATO countries had different ways of marking training equipment. For example, RAF acquisition AIM9L were grey with Pink bands! Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisky Papa Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, e8n2 said: The standard color for training rounds, be it missiles or bombs, is a medium blue. Sorry I don't know the FS number off hand. .... 10 hours ago, Selwyn said: Not necessarily true, other NATO countries had different ways of marking training equipment. For example, RAF acquisition AIM9L were grey with Pink bands! Selwyn GAF colour for training rounds: RAL 5012 Lichtblau. Source: Flugzeugforum Edited February 20, 2022 by Whisky Papa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyharry2000 Posted February 20, 2022 Author Share Posted February 20, 2022 Thank you for that Alex most kind. Kind Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyharry2000 Posted February 20, 2022 Author Share Posted February 20, 2022 These aim-9b sidewinders where also carried by the early F-4F Phantoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 Most training Sidewinder seen in Luftwaffe service were in blue, either the German RAL mentioned above or the US FS 35109. However there are pictures showing overall dark green AIM-9Bs, the matter is understanding if they were training rounds, dummies or active weapons... I do not have an answer however I believe they were for training purpose. Among the few pictures showing them are some of aircraft taking part in exercises, and in general in these exercises there was no need for live rounds. These missiles also seem to lack the bands generally associated with live missiles that indicate the "content" of each section, something quite unusual to me. Pictures of aircraft during QRA duties on the other hand always seem to show white missiles, with the appropriate coloured bands. A picture I've seen of an F-104 with green missiles was also taken during an open day on an aircraft loaded for show, and I can't see a live missile being used in one such occasion. At the same time pictures of the green missiles also show caps over the sensor, that in general would make sense if the missile has an active seeker (that certain training rounds have). Have to say that I've also seen airmen immediately covering the seekers section of aircraft landing after air show demonstration, a situation where nobody would expect more than a dummy to be carried, so maybe the cover was just for some other reason... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyharry2000 Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 Many Thanks for that info Giorgio that info is what I was looking for . Kind Regards Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout712 Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 In my time flying Phantoms with the Luftwaffe, green Aim-9's were load training rounds only. Not being flown. And of course they would carry seaker head covers.Ground crews need procedural training too. AIM-120 load training missile bodies were grey with blue bands and also not flown but that is off topic. Regards Michael 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyharry2000 Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 Thank you for that info Michael most helpful. Kind Regards Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 On 2/19/2022 at 11:36 PM, e8n2 said: The standard color for training rounds, be it missiles or bombs, is a medium blue. Sorry I don't know the FS number off hand. I remember well back around `76 sometime they had a practice round fall off of one of our F-4Ds and it ended up making a hole in the roof of a farmer's barn. Some people went crazy thinking it could explode. Later, Dave FS 35109, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 The Green looks like RAL6014 to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBee Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 4 hours ago, Hook said: The Green looks like RAL6014 to me. For German exercise weapons they use RAL 6014, for live weapons RAL 9001. "Nur für Beladeübungen" means only for ground crew training: 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Great pics! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayBee Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 47 minutes ago, Hook said: Great pics! Thank you. The first pic is from Flickr and hotlinked. So credits goes to the owner of the picture. The 2nd and 3th one are taken by me at Jagel AG 51 during a spottersday years ago. That time the last naval anti ship strike squadron (MFG2 Eggebek) using Tornado and Kormoran II was history and the anti ship role was handed over to the Luftwaffe (AG 51) Meanwhile the Kormoran II and the anti ship role is history. They were taken out of service in 2012 and scrapped (end of life for Kormoran II) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyharry2000 Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 Hi JayBee Many thanks for the picture's the Kormoran is for ground crew training would the sidewinder on the F-104 be for that and not for flight I have seen a picture of a F-4F at Leeuwarden it looks like it is carrying one those sidewinders but the wing tank is blocking i Many Thanks Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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