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GAF F-104g JG-71 wingtip dummy Aim-9b colour


billyharry2000

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Hi There

Wonder if anyone could help with the colour of the sidewinder training rounds carried by the former GAF F-104g Starfighters of JG-71 on there wing tips.

I believe they where also carried by the early F-4F Phantom's of JG-71 and JG-72,photos of the former GAF interceptor F-104s are hard to find.

 

Regards

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Checked all AIRDOC booklets about JG 71, 73 and 74 and all F-40 books (German book series about aircraft types which served with the GAF). Found only two or three photos of -9Bs with a dark colored body and white head. But unfortunately it's absolutely not possible to say if it's dark green or blue. There are also several photos of F-104s with completely green painted Sidewinders. But I think those were live ones and no training rounds.

All other photos show completely white Sidewinders. 

 

Alex

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7 hours ago, coneheadff said:

Checked all AIRDOC booklets about JG 71, 73 and 74 and all F-40 books (German book series about aircraft types which served with the GAF). Found only two or three photos of -9Bs with a dark colored body and white head. But unfortunately it's absolutely not possible to say if it's dark green or blue. There are also several photos of F-104s with completely green painted Sidewinders. But I think those were live ones and no training rounds.

All other photos show completely white Sidewinders. 

 

Alex

The standard color for training rounds, be it missiles or bombs, is a medium blue.  Sorry I don't know the FS number off hand.  I remember well back around `76 sometime they had a practice round fall off of one of our F-4Ds and it ended up making a hole in the roof of a farmer's barn.  Some people went crazy thinking it could explode.

Later,

Dave

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3 hours ago, e8n2 said:

The standard color for training rounds, be it missiles or bombs, is a medium blue.  Sorry I don't know the FS number off hand.  I remember well back around `76 sometime they had a practice round fall off of one of our F-4Ds and it ended up making a hole in the roof of a farmer's barn.  Some people went crazy thinking it could explode.

Later,

Dave

Not necessarily true, other NATO countries had different ways of marking training equipment. For example, RAF acquisition AIM9L were grey with Pink bands!

 

Selwyn

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14 hours ago, e8n2 said:

The standard color for training rounds, be it missiles or bombs, is a medium blue.  Sorry I don't know the FS number off hand. ....

 

10 hours ago, Selwyn said:

Not necessarily true, other NATO countries had different ways of marking training equipment. For example, RAF acquisition AIM9L were grey with Pink bands!

 

Selwyn

GAF colour for training rounds: RAL 5012 Lichtblau.

Source: Flugzeugforum

Edited by Whisky Papa
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Most training Sidewinder seen in Luftwaffe service were in blue, either the German RAL mentioned above or the US FS 35109.

However there are pictures showing overall dark green AIM-9Bs, the matter is understanding if they were training rounds, dummies or active weapons...

I do not have an answer however I believe they were for training purpose. Among the few pictures showing them are some of aircraft taking part in exercises, and in general in these exercises there was no need for live rounds. These missiles also seem to lack the bands generally associated with live missiles that indicate the "content" of each section, something quite unusual to me. Pictures of aircraft during QRA duties on the other hand always seem to show white missiles, with the appropriate coloured bands.

A picture I've seen of an F-104 with green missiles was also taken during an open day on an aircraft loaded for show, and I can't see a live missile being used in one such occasion.

At the same time pictures of the green missiles also show caps over the sensor, that in general would make sense if the missile has an active seeker (that certain training rounds have). Have to say that I've also seen airmen immediately covering the seekers section of aircraft landing after air show demonstration, a situation where nobody would expect more than a dummy to be carried, so maybe the cover was just for some other reason...

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In my time flying Phantoms with the Luftwaffe, green Aim-9's were load training rounds only. Not being flown. And of course they would carry seaker head covers.Ground crews need procedural training too.

AIM-120 load training missile bodies were grey with blue bands and also not flown but that is off topic.

Regards

Michael

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On 2/19/2022 at 11:36 PM, e8n2 said:

The standard color for training rounds, be it missiles or bombs, is a medium blue.  Sorry I don't know the FS number off hand.  I remember well back around `76 sometime they had a practice round fall off of one of our F-4Ds and it ended up making a hole in the roof of a farmer's barn.  Some people went crazy thinking it could explode.

Later,

Dave

FS 35109, I believe.

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4 hours ago, Hook said:

The Green looks like RAL6014 to me.

For German exercise weapons they use RAL 6014, for live weapons RAL 9001.

 

Marineflieger Lockheed F-104G

 

 

 

c5e159690-kormoran-high-res.jpg

 

 

"Nur für Beladeübungen" means only for ground crew training:

 

db9559841-dsc00030.jpg

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Hook said:

Great pics!

 

Thank you. :)

 

The first pic is from Flickr and hotlinked. So credits goes to the owner of the picture.

The 2nd and 3th one are taken by me at Jagel AG 51 during a spottersday years ago. That time the last naval anti ship strike squadron (MFG2 Eggebek) using Tornado and Kormoran II was history and the anti ship role was handed over to the Luftwaffe (AG 51)

 

Meanwhile the Kormoran II and the anti ship role is history. They were taken out of service in 2012 and scrapped (end of life for Kormoran II)

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Hi JayBee

Many thanks for the picture's the Kormoran is for ground crew training would the sidewinder on the F-104 be for that and not for flight I have seen a picture of a F-4F at Leeuwarden it looks like it is carrying one those sidewinders but the wing tank is blocking i

Many Thanks

Craig

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