Ju-87B, Ju-87D, Ju-87G overall length- which kits are accurate?

[72modeler]

I know we had a long and informative discussion on the accurate overall length  of the main Stuka variants in 1/72 scale; IIRC we were looking at the Airfix, Academy, Italeri, and Fujimi kits, and I think had pretty much conformed that all of the variants listed above were the same overall length from the firewall to the rudder post. The kits- not so much! I discovered a 1/72 resin conversion set that is designed for the Airfix Ju-87B/R to allow an accurate Ju-87G-1/2 to be modeled. The set is produced by Wilde Sau Resin, which appears to be a one-man operation; he offers resin conversions and full kits in both 1/72 and 1/48 scales. I have attached a link to the 1/72 conversion for the Ju-87G-1/2; it looks to be very comprehensive, and lookd good.

 

I looked all over for the original topic discussions so I could update the last one posted, but with no success; the BM search feature is very confusing and hard to use- I gave up after fighting with it for a half-hour! (No condemnation of the hard-working and selfless administrators is intended- it is what it is!)

 

Hope this will be of interest; it appears to me that you could graft the QEC of the Academy/Fujimi kit and all the other relevant bits to an Airfix Ju-87B and arrive at a pretty accurate  Ju-87G stanndard and extended wing variant. See what you all think.

Mike

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/234401009808?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

[RJP]

Looks like an interesting set but it's too bad the guy is so set on de-marketing. 

 

I suspect it would be less aggravating to build it yourself out of scrap and ingenuity than to deal with the big attitude.

[fishplanebeer]

Might be worth waiting for the new SH 'Stukas' although I've no idea when they will hit the shelves.

 

Regards

Colin.

[72modeler]

30 minutes ago, fishplanebeer said:

Might be worth waiting for the new SH 'Stukas' although I've no idea when they will hit the shelves.

 

Regards

Colin.

Are they going to do Doras and Gustavs? If so, I will wait! If not, I have a spare new-tool Airfix Berta and Acadsemy and Fujimi Gustavs...cross kit the bejeezus out of those puppies; of course, if Airfix had but given a little thought to making the molds and extra sprues for their Ju-87B/R. kits...

Mike

[fishplanebeer]

Looks as if they are planning a number of D-5's with a D-5/N/D-8 but no idea when they plan to release them sadly.

 

Regards

Colin.

[72modeler]

2 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

Looks as if they are planning a number of D-5's with a D-5/N/D-8 but no idea when they plan to release them sadly.

 

Regards

Colin.

Tell me about it! I'm still waiting for their A-26's and Albacore, although it appears they are getting pretty close to actually releasing it. They really got my hopes up with the announced Bv-141 new-tool, but they cancelled  that release, from what I gather.

Mike

[SafetyDad]

16 hours ago, 72modeler said:

I know we had a long and informative discussion on the accurate overall length  of the main Stuka variants in 1/72 scale; IIRC we were looking at the Airfix, Academy, Italeri, and Fujimi kits, and I think had pretty much conformed that all of the variants listed above were the same overall length from the firewall to the rudder post. The kits- not so much! I discovered a 1/72 resin conversion set that is designed for the Airfix Ju-87B/R to allow an accurate Ju-87G-1/2 to be modeled. The set is produced by Wilde Sau Resin, which appears to be a one-man operation; he offers resin conversions and full kits in both 1/72 and 1/48 scales. I have attached a link to the 1/72 conversion for the Ju-87G-1/2; it looks to be very comprehensive, and lookd good.

 

I looked all over for the original topic discussions so I could update the last one posted, but with no success; the BM search feature is very confusing and hard to use- I gave up after fighting with it for a half-hour! (No condemnation of the hard-working and selfless administrators is intended- it is what it is!)

 

 

Mike

 

 

Is this the thread Mike?

 

I found this searching BM externally using Google - I searched 'britmodeller Ju 87 fuselage length'

 

HTH

 

SD

[72modeler]

4 hours ago, SafetyDad said:

Is this the thread Mike?

 

I found this searching BM externally using Google - I searched 'britmodeller Ju 87 fuselage length'

 

HTH

 

SD

Yep- that's the one! Looks like from the B to the G the lengths are the same! Makes getting an accurate G-1 or G-2 a whole lot easier! Thanks for digging out the original discussion- you are da' man! (I can't use the Google route to get any BM discussions, as ATT keeps blocking my access to BM by any means. I have to use the Opera browser to log on or pull any information. Really p----s me off, but they keep saying it's at my end, and it's obviously not!) Stay safe! 

Mike

[SafetyDad]

14 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Yep- that's the one! Looks like from the B to the G the lengths are the same! Makes getting an accurate G-1 or G-2 a whole lot easier! Thanks for digging out the original discussion- you are da' man! (I can't use the Google route to get any BM discussions, as ATT keeps blocking my access to BM by any means. I have to use the Opera browser to log on or pull any information. Really p----s me off, but they keep saying it's at my end, and it's obviously not!) Stay safe! 

Mike

My pleasure - it's a very informative thread that had passed me by

 

SD

[dalea]

I've read the 2018 posts as well as the current one. I'm still confused. I have in my stash an Academy G-1, a Fujimi G-1 and a G-2 and a Tamiya G-2. Which one(s) are accurate?

[Graham Boak]

Without dragging through it all again, the basic problem is that all the earlier kits were based on references claiming that the D was longer than the B, although it was not made clear how or why.  At least one original reference has been found stating the D overall length as being the same as the B.  The Academy was the odd one out in going with this short length.  So as a first stab, compare the lengths of your kits.  The shortest will be right. (At least in this feature.)

[Bozothenutter]

On 2/16/2022 at 1:02 PM, SafetyDad said:

Is this the thread Mike?

 

I found this searching BM externally using Google - I searched 'britmodeller Ju 87 fuselage length'

 

HTH

 

SD

Try this format next time

searchterm site:britmodeller.com 

It tells google where to look.

[Hook]

On 2/16/2022 at 2:21 AM, fishplanebeer said:

Might be worth waiting for the new SH 'Stukas' although I've no idea when they will hit the shelves.

I recall these being based on the Academy G kit.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[72modeler]

3 hours ago, Hook said:

I recall these being based on the Academy G kit.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

Well, I guess as long as they're based on the kit and not a clone! Is there no honor among kit makers anymore? (Even Lindberg and Aurora did their own stuff...not counting the 1/48 helicopter molds s that they bought from Helicopters of Industry!)

Mike

[Graham Boak]

Tonight's modelling waste of time was to directly compare the Italeri B with the Fujimi D.   I think that these are both basically (otherwise) sound kits.   It didn't help that they couldn't agree on such details as the rudder chord - the B being wider, according to Italeri, but they are both designed to have separate noses.  Bringing two appropriate fuselage sides together showed that when the break is aligned at the top then the two fuselage halves are the same length, and more-or-less match.  Which is what we would expect.  However the nose of the Fujimi is longer by the foremost nose part, ahead of what they consider the start of the exhaust block.  Here, the Fujimi part is significantly longer than the Italeri, probably because this seems to be a 7- stub exhaust.  The fairing over the front should hide the first stub, but it doesn't.  This is easy enough to correct by cutting off the last stub.  If you then carefully saw off the nose section (that appears too long, then remove a similar section from the remainder, the nose can be then re-attached and a certain amount of reshaping carried out to regain a convincing shape.

 

Bingo!  I now have, or will have if I ever get around to it, a correct-length D, reasonably accurate in shape and size.  I'm sure that similar treatment will work with the other long D/Gs, but I don't have them to compare.

[72modeler]

20 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Tonight's modelling waste of time was to directly compare the Italeri B with the Fujimi D.   I think that these are both basically (otherwise) sound kits.   It didn't help that they couldn't agree on such details as the rudder chord - the B being wider, according to Italeri, but they are both designed to have separate noses.  Bringing two appropriate fuselage sides together showed that when the break is aligned at the top then the two fuselage halves are the same length, and more-or-less match.  Which is what we would expect.  However the nose of the Fujimi is longer by the foremost nose part, ahead of what they consider the start of the exhaust block.  Here, the Fujimi part is significantly longer than the Italeri, probably because this seems to be a 7- stub exhaust.  The fairing over the front should hide the first stub, but it doesn't.  This is easy enough to correct by cutting off the last stub.  If you then carefully saw off the nose section (that appears too long, then remove a similar section from the remainder, the nose can be then re-attached and a certain amount of reshaping carried out to regain a convincing shape.

 

Bingo!  I now have, or will have if I ever get around to it, a correct-length D, reasonably accurate in shape and size.  I'm sure that similar treatment will work with the other long D/Gs, but I don't have them to compare.

Sounds like a plan, Graham! I will pull my Academy, Fujimi, and Airifx kits this week end and see if I can duplicate your suggestion.  Before I do any plastic surgery, I might wait until the SH kits are released, but you know how inaccurate their release dates are, so I might not live long enough to see them first-hand! Thanks for this post!

Mike

 

 

Edited February 17, 2022 by 72modeler
corrected spelling

[Fukuryu]

48 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Well, I guess as long as they're based on the kit and not a clone! Is there no honor among kit makers anymore? (Even Lindberg and Aurora did their own stuff...not counting the 1/48 helicopter molds s that they bought from Helicopters of Industry!)

Mike

 

 

[Graham Boak]

12 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

 I will pull my Academy, Fujimi, and Airifx kits this week end and see if I can duplicate your suggestion.  Before I do any plastic surgery,

 

Please note that I pass no comment on the detail accuracy of these kits, or how to bring either of these (or any other) more in line with the originals.  I must admit that the fin/rudder differences are peeving me, but my posting was entirely limited to finding where the difference in length was, and what to do about it.  If I'd had an Academy kit I'd have used that as a base rather than the Italeri one, for obvious reasons.

[72modeler]

Post text deleted.

 

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by 72modeler
deleted text

[Graham Boak]

Sorry, but basically you have taken us back to the start of the argument.  All this effort has been based on old information - the overall length of the D was the same as the B at 11m, not 11.3m as shown on an original German document posted online a few years back.  The numbers of references quoting 11.3m is an example of a repeated error.  What was real does not depend upon post-facto popular votes.  Backing this, there is nothing in the installation of the later engine that suggests any reason for a longer nose.

 

Which doesn't mean that there is nothing to be said about other aspects of the various kits which you highlight.  I found it useful to see your comments on the rudder in view of the differences I mentioned in my previous comparison..  Something to bear in mind for Academy buyers, certainly.  Similarly the length of the radiator fairing, although your final line simply repeated the previous one where it should be the sum of the two previous ones.

[gingerbob]

11 hours ago, 72modeler said:

11.5m or 33'

 

Wouldn't 11.5 meters be longer than 33 feet?

[72modeler]

5 hours ago, gingerbob said:

 

Wouldn't 11.5 meters be longer than 33 feet?

My bad! Should be 11 meters! Will amend my post with the correct figure! Thanks for catching that, GB! 

Mike

[gingerbob]

Umm, 11 YARDS would be 33 feet.

[72modeler]

7 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Sorry, but basically you have taken us back to the start of the argument.  All this effort has been based on old information - the overall length of the D was the same as the B at 11m, not 11.3m as shown on an original German document posted online a few years back.  The numbers of references quoting 11.3m is an example of a repeated error.  What was real does not depend upon post-facto popular votes.  Backing this, there is nothing in the installation of the later engine that suggests any reason for a longer nose.

 

Which doesn't mean that there is nothing to be said about other aspects of the various kits which you highlight.  I found it useful to see your comments on the rudder in view of the differences I mentioned in my previous comparison..  Something to bear in mind for Academy buyers, certainly.  Similarly the length of the radiator fairing, although your final line simply repeated the previous one where it should be the sum of the two previous ones.

Sorry if I seem to have wasted time and effort with my post- I was trying to confirm, as you and others have stated previously, that the length from the firewall to the rudder post was in fact identical for all versions from the B to the G.  I thought the crux of our previous discussions was that there seemed to be some information that the D/G variants supposedly had a longer nose than the earlier ones due to the different engine, which apparently was not true- my intention was to confirm that what you and others had observed was correct.  I can delete my post if the information is confusing, redundant, or inaccurate. I know what I think needs to be done to build an accurate 1/72 D/G, I guess I was  thinking that  what I had posted might have been useful to others. Got no horse in this race, as they say, so it don't make no never mind to me!

Mike

[Chuck1945]

Until actual front end dimensions are available, measuring various kits probably doesn’t accomplish much insofar as determining which, if any, of the existing D/G kits are at least close to reality.