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Ireland wants combat jets?


Slater

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Good news from an aviation enthusiasts point of view but the procurement of a modern fighter is only part of the equation if they want full autonomy  of their own airspace, a radar system would need to be purchased and a modern control centre/network would need to built along with all the training of both aircrew and ground crew and the purchase of modern weapons.

 

I have not been to Casement for a long time but it would need a massive investment in infrastructure to operate a modern fighter fleet, costs could possibly be trimmed by basing them at an international airport similar to ANG and AFRES units in the US.

 

Sounds simple but it is probably not.

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From the document referenced in the Jane's article:

 

"LOA 3 The Commission believes that achieving LOA 3 would require a very significant enhancement of the Air Corps’ capabilities, with commensurately higher levels of defence spending.   A key element of a step up to LOA 3 would be the development of a national Air Defence Plan, with provision of a comprehensive air policing capability being central to this Plan. The provision of primary radar, as recommended in the context of LOA 2, is a key enabler of an air policing capability but, at present, the Air Corps has only an embryonic intercept capability, limited to slow flying aircraft and helicopters.

 

Our lack of an intercept capability has been described by the Air Corps as a major gap in the State’s overall defence capability. Under LOA 3, the Commission envisages that, building on the advent of primary radar, the Air Corps would develop an air combat and intercept capability through the acquisition of a squadron of jet combat aircraft, allied to the development of associated operational, infrastructure and support arrangements. A move to LOA 3 would also involve a further step change increase from LOA 2 in organic reach and lift capability through the acquisition of two or three troop carrier type aircraft. The Commission also considers that LOA 3 would allow the overseas deployment of combat aircraft, pilots and support personnel to provide organic intra‐theatre mobility based on tactical transport helicopters, with a minimum capacity being to move a platoon of personnel at will in an operational area. Deployed forces would also have an organic helicopter combat SAR capability. Such aircraft would be armed and equipped to operate in hostile environments in order to provide agile and effective fire in support of ground forces." 

 

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/eb4c0-report-of-the-commission-on-defence-forces/

Edited by Slater
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Pretty much as I suggested, unfortunately I could not read the full article as I am not a subscriber otherwise I would have saved my time and not written it..😃. Thanks for posting it though, it puts it more succinctly than I ever could.👍

 

I am a little surprised to see a heavylift capability in there though, interesting times ahead it seems for the Irish Defence Forces.

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was time, no? you can't forever rely on the neighbour you actually have issues with for your own defence...

 

wonder when Iceland and the Baltic states follow suite... also Slovenia is severely lacking in this respect.....

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Just what issues does Ireland have?  Anyone who could seriously attack Ireland would have sufficient overwhelming force to brush aside anything Ireland could possibly field.  If the real requirement is to be able to intercept fast-moving aircraft that are failing to show transponders, then something well short of modern capabilities could do the job.  Second-hand F-5Es?

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My understanding is that these are for the moment only the results of the work of the commission, that IIRC issued these sometime in the last months of 2021.

It remains to be seen if the government will follow these recommendations, really I struggle to see how the IAC could go through such a change in the next few years. If such a decision will be taken, it will take time to see any proper jet fighter in Irish service.

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We Are good at this nonsense here, There will probably spend the price of 20 F-16, All the support equipment needed on 50 consultant reports that will get filed away and reviewed every 5 years and in the end nothing to show for it. 

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2 minutes ago, Slater said:

Well, the F-16 production line is still going strong...

Neutral Irelans of course would opt for Gripen, no?

Some second hand examples for sure available....

17 minutes ago, George Norman said:

TBH money would be better spent elsewhere on social and environmental stuff before they start wasting money on fancy jets...

 

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Just what issues does Ireland have? 

That would_ could be true for many countries, no???? There might be other, security related concerns...

 

Russian patrols close to Irish waters can't be very appreciated as one example...

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8 hours ago, junglierating said:

A dozen typhoons going cheap from Austria?

I think we have 15 to spare according to some ( watered down Tranche 1 though) cheap? No idea, seem to be expensive to operate though.

 

I am mire of the opinion though that Austria does not have 15 in excess, but is rather lacking another 15...( that was the original plan in the early 2000s...) plus  some BVR capability... so that some could be sent abroad if UN / is needing support..

can't always expect the others to do the dirty work... which closes the circle to Ireland ;)

 

 

 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Head in the clouds. said:

After reading about the siege of Jadotville  I would whole heartedly agree but like so many western forces they too have recruitment issues which could impact on any decision.

Too young for that 😄 but thats another film ive got to watch....as usual another admin cock up which led to extreme measures by the boots on the ground....and then shunned by the Irish govt for years until recognised...cant win can you .....anyway I digress ...again sorry mods 

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Well I can think of 2 Countries that have been very active over the last 40 years in bringing modern military aircraft operations to smaller independent countries that previously didn't have the capacity. For example Africa is awash with their weapons, sometimes even operated and maintained by seconded air and ground crew. I wonder what a Flanker or Jengdu would look like in Irish Air Corp markings? 🤣

 

Duncan B

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2 hours ago, Duncan B said:

... I wonder what a Flanker or Jengdu would look like in Irish Air Corp markings? 🤣

 

Duncan B

There's one way to find out - got a Flanker in your stash? I'm sure there must be appropriate Irish markings available somewhere.  :rolleyes:

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As us Austrians (ned wahr, @exdraken 😉 ) can tell from our very own experience, the discussion "do-small-countries-need-their-own-fighter-planes" can lead into severe abstruseness, so may I suggest we skip this minefield? I guess I've read somewhere from the admins, that BM sports a no-politics-policy?

 

Other than modelling issues that is, of course, so what about a modern irish-themed fighter what-if group build in 2022? From Flankers to Lightnings, from Gripens to Rafales,  new or used, as long as it's (possibly) on the market, it's in the ring.  

 

Wouldn't that be fun?

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What do they need fighters for? Foreign deployments for the UN would be an occasional thing, so I assume it would primarily be for defending its airspace and territorial waters. Do Bears roam off the west coast? 
 

I also wonder what NZ are thinking about these days for their air defence?
 

Trevor

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