The Operation “Judgement” FAA Avenger is +++FINISHED with RFI Added+++

[bigbadbadge]

4 minutes ago, mark.au said:

 

Here's where I read it.  Hopefully @tonyot might chime in to confirm but it seems pretty clear cut there.

Crikey a while since I have seen that one, there are some interesting schemes in the photo with them all parked up together, with the underside colours being extended up the sides of the Aircraft,  like the US Altantic schemes.

It will certainly be nteresting to see if they all have white undersides or whether ot was just the ones where the underside colours extended up the sides.

 

Chris

[heloman1]

Ooops, missed the beginning of your build Mark, a great start and glad you decided to go with the folded wings. Being an FAA fan, I just couldn't stay away.

A tidy workbench, far too adventurous for me!!! I've tried three times recently to get it tidy, it keep evading my best efforts!

 

Colin

[Grey Beema]

You could go for something like this.  TSS with a black nose maybe?

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205016155

 

 

[Seahawk]

Previous misleading content deleted.  Memo to self: read the exam question carefully first.

 

White is the correct underside colour for the aircraft in your reference photo, J-F of 846 Squadron.  Sky was the norm for Avengers but a couple of squadrons operating in Norwegian waters towards the end of the war (853 in Queen and 846 in Trumpeter for starters) adopted White undersides for improved camouflage against U-boats.  Application seems to have varied with some aircraft having the colour demarcation taken much higher up the fuselage sides, some having the upper part of the nose painted black (eg FN871 G as in @Grey Beema's photo) and some (eg JZ472 Q-A of 853) having both.

 

Apart from the squadron identity another pointer towards white undersides is the upper/lower demarcation line around the leading edge of the tailplane: in Sky aircraft it sweeps backwards a little under the tailplane whereas White undersides sweep forward and downwards in a curve.

 

PS Love how that engine looks.  And apologies again for answering a question other than that posed!

Edited February 20, 2022 by Seahawk
Original post answered the wrong question!

[mark.au]

14 hours ago, Seahawk said:

PS Love how that engine looks.  And apologies again for answering a question other than that posed!

 

Thanks for the kind words and the detailed answer, and no apology required.  I like this answer better than the first 🙂

 

I'm going to build one of the "Judgement" Avengers but I must admit I haven't yet decided on an 853 or an 846 aircraft.  On the one hand I have a very good written reference for the operation from 853's perspective and on the other there's the photo of 846's J-P (but I don't [yet] know that aircraft's serial number).  Generally I like to interpret and build from photos, but I also like to build airframes that no-one else does 🤷‍♂️.

 

15 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

You could go for something like this.  TSS with a black nose maybe?

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205016155

 

 

Thanks, this is a great reference too and will help me in the finish on my model, particularly if I do an 846 airframe.

 

Nothing to report on the model today, I'm heading down to Melbourne for a two day business trip tomorrow so there won't be anything to show until the weekend I imagine.  

 

Cheers;

M.

[AliGauld]

Hi Mark,

Just caught up on this one.

I'll tag along if you have no objection. I have the Sword Tarpon to do in the near future.

All looking up to your excellent standards so far.

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[tonyot]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:09 AM, mark.au said:

 

Here's where I read it.  Hopefully @tonyot might chime in to confirm but it seems pretty clear cut there.

 

Yeah it was the ASW scheme, also applied to Swordfish and it looks like some Wildcat`s might have worn it too. As above, The usual TSS was modified by adding white sides and undersides but black was often applied to the nose and wing leading edges to help prevent glare from flares during night ops too. Some aircraft had the white covering the entire sides and some just part of the sides

,

 

The photos that  posted previously appear to have been `eaten' by Photobucket,..... I hope you find these useful,

 

Here are a couple of models that I built about 20 yrs ago!

 

 

Yes,.... the radio mast has broken off the second kit, which is a 1/72nd model. I intend on building a HMS Queen aircraft some time soon too.

 

And there was a precedent for it,..... Swordfish and Sea Hurricane too,..... pretty sure some Wildcats wore it too;

 

Now the Wildcat below might not have white undersides,..... but they are not the standard pattern for Sky undersides,.... so who knows? I`ve seen a few other pic like this too;

 

Cheers

         Tony

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by tonyot

[mark.au]

On 2/23/2022 at 6:18 AM, tonyot said:

The photos that  posted previously appear to have been `eaten' by Photobucket,..... I hope you find these useful,

Much obliged Tony, there’s some great references there.  Your models look great too, good enough as references themselves.

 

Upon returning from Melbourne I’ve spend the last few days away from the bench on a charity bike ride, 320km in the Kosciusko National Park riding up an down mountains. Needing a bit of a rest from that stupidity, I got some bench time in this evening masking the greenhouse and should have some paint progress to show tomorrow.

 

On 2/23/2022 at 12:45 AM, AliGauld said:

Hi Mark,

Just caught up on this one.

I'll tag along if you have no objection. I have the Sword Tarpon to do in the near future.

All looking up to your excellent standards so far.

 

Cheers,

Alistair

 

Welcome aboard Alistair, you’re just in time for some paint splashing.

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by mark.au

[heloman1]

Great ref from Tony, a good mate and always willing to impart his vast reference and knowledge.

 

Colin

[bigbadbadge]

Glad to see you're back and kudos to you for doing the charity bike ride too. Looking forward to some paint.

Chris 

[mark.au]

Lest you think I've abandoned the build, here's a small update.  Progress has been slow due to real world distractions but I've been doing a bit of plodding.  The current status is as below, more or less ready for paint...

 

 

Overall the airframe assembled well and very little filler was needed.  The worst area was the starboard side of the windshield which required filler to bridge a step between the fuselage and clear part.  Otherwise there wasn't much required.  Painted the greenhouse separately and then attached it to the airframe.  At the same time I tested the seams with the bronze green and all looks good.  I'm going to display the observer's cockpit open so used the closed version as the mask.  The pilot's side windows were a poor fit in the closed position so I masked with foam; the finished kit will have the pilot's windows open too.

 

I'm going to paint the wheel wells first, give that a few minutes to dry and then dry fit the main undercarriage for the model to stand on, as it is now.  The wings will be painted as separate pieces to be attached later.

 

In studying some of the references @tonyot posted above something stood out, namely the lack of rocket launcher stubs on the wings.

 

 

The kit expects them to be fitted to I filled the holes with some stretched sprue...

 

 

I suspect that the mounting plates may also be absent from non-rocket wings but can't really tell from the photos.  There's a few more holes to fill as these aircraft didn't carry the auxiliary fuel tanks either, so their attachment holes also need filling.

 

Over the weekend I expect the complete the underside at least.  I'm not completely sure whether I'm going to free hand or mask for the paint scheme; this is after all a field applied scheme so would be expected to be a bit rough and ready.  There'a a bit more work to do on studying the photos before I decide.  In the mean time the white underside is a given.

 

Cheers.

[bigbadbadge]

Good to see you back on this Mark good to see some paint going on too.  Can't wait to see this scheme develope.  

Great work so far

 

Chri

[Dunny]

Coming along nicely Mark. I do find TSS quite forgiving for freehand camo, and as you say it could afford to be a little rough and ready - good luck with it!

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[AliGauld]

All looking braw.

Paint. Good looking forward to that.

 

Cheers,

Alistair.

 

 

 

[Moggy]

Am I missing something in this thread?

 

IIRC Op Judgement was the kneecapping of the Regia Marina (Royal Italian Navy) at its main base at Taranto Nov 1940.

 

The aircraft that performed this op were the ancient-looking Fairey Swordfish torpedo bombers under the aegis of the Fleet Air Arm.

 

Was there a second op Judgement in 1945?

 

BTW this build looks aces!

 

Cheers, Moggy (thoroughly confused)

[mark.au]

11 minutes ago, Moggy said:

Was there a second op Judgement in 1945?

 

Yes 🙂

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Judgement_(1945)

 

[Graham Boak]

Beaten to it.  The last Home Fleet operation of WW2 was at the beginning of May 1945, and was a 44 Avenger strike on a U-boat base at Kilboltn (sp?) close to Harstad in Norway.  Google is your friend - or in my case Bing.  It is in Wikipedia.

 

One point from an earlier posting.  I understood that the little stubs were only fitted to the TBM-3s, which didn't make the Home Fleet, although in view of their usefulness in anti-U-boat operations it would seem odd that at  least the earlier British mounting wasn't present on these earlier aircraft.  Perhaps they were removed for other missions?

[mark.au]

8 hours ago, Moggy said:

IIRC Op Judgement was the kneecapping of the Regia Marina (Royal Italian Navy) at its main base at Taranto Nov 1940.

 

You may have anticipated what I'm going to do with my Tamiya Swordfish...  

 

7 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

One point from an earlier posting.  I understood that the little stubs were only fitted to the TBM-3s, which didn't make the Home Fleet, although in view of their usefulness in anti-U-boat operations it would seem odd that at  least the earlier British mounting wasn't present on these earlier aircraft.  Perhaps they were removed for other missions?

 

I thought it was curious too, the rockets would seem to be ideal additional offensive firepower for the kind of operation the Avengers were engaged in.

 

I have begun painting, initially with what looks like something from John Pertwee's Doctor Who tenure and a storyline entitled "The Green Death" (which dates me for one thing as I recall it vividly some four and a half decades later, and gave me nightmares as a child when it aired).

 

 

 

Using green for the pre-shade was a quasi deliberate experiment in changing the hue of the finished base coat.  Pre-shading with dark grey or even black as I've used before under white has been too stark and difficult to cover without making the entire coat brilliant white (which subsequently required toning down).  It was also because I had green in the pot for some final touchups around the filler.

 

 

Now firmly in the artist's craft paint camp I used Titanium White for the under sides and while these pics don't show anything out of the realm of expectation I was pleased with how little was required to sufficiently cover the pre-shade without the need for pure-as-the-driven-snow white on the rest of the surface.  I was able to modulate the white everywhere and I think the finish as it is now looks like a worn white finish on an airframe that was in the fourth month of its tour.  The pic above was taken under a mix of incandescent and LED lighting and is on the cool side of the white balance spectrum. To the eye, it's a touch less blue than shown above.

 

I may have left a little too much pre-shade extant...  Not completely convinced that it doesn't require one more misting of white to blend it a tad more.  I'm thinking the treatments to come will tone the contrast down some more anyway, and that will leave it where I want it, but there's a nagging doubt...  Anyway; progress, yes.  Next I'm going to start the artist paint mixology for the DSG and EDSG for which I'm using some Hataka acrylics as my colour guide.

 

Cheers.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by mark.au
White balance clarification

[mark.au]

…and while most of the Britmodeller faculty sleeps I had a go at the wing uppers.  

 

 

These colours were mixed and I’m quite happy with how they look.  The Slate Grey is perhaps a little too green.  There’s a bit of work to do to modulate/texture the finish during which I’ll take a bit of the green out.  I’m interested in the collective’s viewpoint on the colours though.

 

I’m taking the wings through to a finish before starting on the fuselage to make sure everything is nailed down first.  I’ve saved these mixes as masters so I have a solid base for the paint process on the fuselage (and other FAA models down the track).

 

Cheers.

[stevehnz]

Those wings look good to me Mark, fwiw, I don't think you DSG is too green, it was a fairly greenish shade & if perchance the Avenger has ANA equivalent shades then yes, pretty close I reckon.

Steve.

[heloman1]

Looking good Mark. I'm not a fan of pre shading but your work and especially on this build is making me think again. The definition on the white, is to me perfect but please enlighten me/us. You are using artists Titanium white acrylic. Can you describe your method, thinning etc? I paint, so have a box full of acryilcs and acrylic inks which I'd like to try at some stage.

My main medium is watercolour and to paint a model using this medium would be something new!

Colin

[mark.au]

7 minutes ago, heloman1 said:

Can you describe your method, thinning etc? I paint, so have a box full of acryilcs and acrylic inks which I'd like to try at some stage.

Hi Colin.  As you no doubt know, these paints are the consistency of toothpaste.  I squeeze out a suitable amount, usually directly into the airbrush pot and then thin with Windex.  I thin to the consistency of something between single cream and full fat milk.  Too thin and there’s typically not enough pigment to cover well, too thick and it won’t spray well.  I lean towards too thick as that gives good control on fine line work too.

 

If I am mixing colours I usually mix in the pot and check progress by spraying a patch on my white model bench.  The paint wipes away instantly with water.

 

I hope that helps, it’s not complicated and well worth a try with these paints, I find them to be very easy to use and able to withstand handling and masking.

[bigbadbadge]

The green preshade idea is inspired,  a great idea and the undersurfaces look fantastic.   The effect is wonderful and with your weattering effects will look superb.  The wing upper surfaces look good and the modulation should finish them off a treat.  

Great work 

Chris

[AliGauld]

19 hours ago, mark.au said:

gave me nightmares as a child when it aired

Yup I had nightmares about those maggots for a long time and Katy Manning leaving almost destroyed me but then along came the wonderful Ms. Sladen. 

 

Looking fabulous with paint on. I'm no expert on colours but they look good to me.

 

 

Cheers,

Alistair

[mark.au]

21 hours ago, stevehnz said:

Those wings look good to me Mark, fwiw, I don't think you DSG is too green, it was a fairly greenish shade & if perchance the Avenger has ANA equivalent shades then yes, pretty close I reckon.

Steve.

Thanks Steve.  I think you’re right, and now I’ve toned them down a tad I think it works.

 

19 hours ago, bigbadbadge said:

The green preshade idea is inspired,  a great idea and the undersurfaces look fantastic.   The effect is wonderful and with your weattering effects will look superb.  The wing upper surfaces look good and the modulation should finish them off a treat.  

Great work 

Chris

Thanks Chris, I’m pleased with how it turned out.  Now the wing uppers have had a mild treatment too, I think it’s all turned out well.

 

8 hours ago, AliGauld said:

Yup I had nightmares about those maggots for a long time and Katy Manning leaving almost destroyed me but then along came the wonderful Ms. Sladen. 

 

Looking fabulous with paint on. I'm no expert on colours but they look good to me.

 

 

Cheers,

Alistair

Ahh, the crushes my ten-year-old self had on the Doctor’s assistants….  😂

 

Last night I went at the wings with a mild weathering treatment.  I accented the panels with a dark mix as it’s clear from pics that these airframes with their rivets and such attracted grime in the joints more than most.  
 

After that, I mixed a very light beige to filter both camo colours down and applied it sparingly.  The RN did look after their aircraft and as these planes weren’t sitting out in the sun like their pacific counterparts there wouldn’t have been a lot of paint fading.
 

Next up will be a light clear coat and then I’ll paint the roundels.  
 

Cheers.

 

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by mark.au