The_Lancaster Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Evening all, I have a bit of a quandary and Dr. Google isn’t quite solving it. British Shermans had a stowage bin that affixed to the rear of the turret. I’ve got an Tamiya Early style M4 Sherman which I’m reasonably certain that I can convert into a Sherman I. Now I know I can get resin turret bins but I was wondering if anyone had the dimensions of the stowage bin as to allow for me to scratch-build one out of plastic card. Many Thanks Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelholic Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Sam, Which type? There was a rounded corner type with an angled lid https://www.scalemates.com/kits/dragon-6313-sherman-mkiii--108565 and a later(?) squarer type aka blanket box(?) https://www.scalemates.com/kits/dragon-6228-sherman-mkic-firefly-hybrid--120568 Measured from finished models in 1/35 (I've been as accurate as I can without damaging anything) rounded - width (across tank) 30mm height 15.2mm (at turret) depth (along tank) 10,2mm blanket box type W - 30mm H - 14.2mm D - 10mm Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 These are measurement from the Asuka/TASCA brand Sherman kits. Can use as is or further make accurate the dimensions by scaling each measurement to the nearest inch or so. One thing I have wondered about was the lid. In some photos it looks like it over hangs the edges of the box like it were a section of thick plywood. In other examples like the photo below, it has a metal look to it including a lip all around. Maybe @Das Abteilung would know more? regards, Jack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 The standard lid was definitely sheet metal with a lip to stop water getting in. I can't see plywood being used, although marine ply could be made waterproof. A sheet metal rim strip would likely still be needed. I can't think of any British tank stowage bin with a wooden lid. Field replacement with wood could be a possibility I suppose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lancaster Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 Thanks all, @Modelholic I was looking at the latter of the two types as per JackG’s post (easier to build 😂). It looks relatively simple to scratch build and maybe get hold of some resin bolt heads from Meng to do the securing strap up with. methinks I may be getting hold of some Bison Decals and Zvezda M4A2s in the future 😂😂 Sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 The Tamiya Early Sherman has much bigger problems than a turret box. Most notably it has entirely the wrong glacis for any factory model of M4, being the unique Chrysler M4A4 type or possibly a Ford M4A3. There is no cure for this apart from a new upper hull, although you could conceivably do a hull cut and shut with something else but that means wasting another kit. TMD do a replacement upper hull but that costs more than the kit. Likewise the Accurate Armour British parts set for this kit, which doesn't cure the glacis but does give you the box. It's also a bit of a mishmash elsewhere. Having the wide M34A1 gun mount it is more mid-production than early, built after about March 43 - about half way through M4 production. By the time we began receiving them - US forces had M4 priority while we had M4A1 priority until after the end of the N African campaign - the cast final drive assembly was more common. Having said this, if you fit the driver's hood applique armour (not in the kit) and cover the glacis with stowage, spare links etc as is commonly seen then you can hide most of the glacis ills. Whether you add the hull and turret applique as well is up to you. All 3 came as separate sets rather than a complete vehicle kit, so not all Shermans had all 3 installed. You see every possible combination. The hull and glacis flat patches are easily made from 0.75mm card but the compound-curve turret patch is more difficult. The hull patch dimensions are shown on Sherman Minutia somewhere. Like you I bought one of these kits intending to have a go at a Sherman I, more specifically a IC Firefly. But I ended up swapping it for a Dragon M4 DV instead. If you want a decent Sherman I then either of the Dragon M4 kits are a very much better start point: their M4 DV or Normandy M4. But they are hard to find and will cost you about twice the price that the Tamiya kit goes for. There's a reason that is relatively cheap...... And before you say "I don't want an early DV", Baldwin - uniquely and oddly - made all their M4s with DV right to the end of production and some became Fireflies. M4s were really only seen in British service in NW Europe, with a few in Italy. So the "square" box is the one you need. The curved-back variety was an earlier design from the desert days. Some were seen with the rear trackguard sections welded to the sloping rear upper hull sections either side of the engine hatch and in front of the tail lights to act as stowage bins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Another question or opinion for the turret box. @Das Abteilung or anyone, but the horizontal strapping that goes around the box, would it continue on the backside? Also, would that be bolt heads or nuts on the outer side? regards, Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) The fastenings for the strip, latches and hinges were rivets IIRC. As for the strip going around the back, it has never been entirely clear to me how the box was attached to the turret. Where boxes have been fitted and removed you see an L strip welded along the bottom of the bustle or a weld scar where that has been removed. But how the box attached further up I don't know. It came complete and assembled so welding seems impossible because of the lid. The only reasonable and logical assumption is that it was bolted on. If so, then the L strip at the bottom held it slightly away from the rear face of the turret bustle. So leaving the strip all round would compensate for that and would provide a stronger mounting point for attachment bolts. Edited February 14, 2022 by Das Abteilung Saved too soon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) From some photos, it does appear the upper attachment is inline with the strapping around the box. It is difficult to tell if it is an extension of said strapping with the ends welded to the turret sides, or if a separate short piece of similar strapping that is welded to the turret and attached to the box (bolted?). This third photo has the turret box removed, showing both the L strip and a short strip on the side of the turret bustle. Edited to note the storage box has been placed on the right side of the hull: The following are photos of Holy Roller as a museum piece. There are weld marks found for the upper straps or brackets, but nothing apparent for the where that L strip would have been located: regards, Jack Edited February 14, 2022 by JackG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) Peter Brown posted this photo over at missinglynx, it confirms the separate straps on either side of the storage box. Interesting too how the weld beads are applied to the bottom L shaped bracket. regards, Jack Edited February 18, 2022 by JackG fixed broken link 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigster Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Resurrecting an old thread, but I'm in the same basket. My Shermans (Italy) calls for that rounded box, as per earlier versions (direct view etc). Got a "square blanket box" in my kit. Cannot find anything resin aftermarket. They all doing the same. While some dimensions from @Modelholic helps, I'll need some "side views" to cut plastic in proper angles and radius. Does anybody have a little bit more on those "add-ons" to Brit's Shermans? Scan of parts M7 & M8 in 35-014? zig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Ultracast in Canada makes a resin example of the rounded turret bin, and they currently have a 15% off sale: https://www.ultracast.ca/product-p/ult135014.htm If scratch building your own, the set of Dragon instructions could be used from page 8 to obtain a profile of the bin. With vector software it would be quite simple to import the image and scale it there: https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/0/7/8/106078-13-instructions.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigster Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Guess, I'll have to figure out economy of the Ultracast product (maybe + others). All postal services going crazy. Got to find something else in their "shelves" to ease the pain. z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 @zigster yes unfortunately shipping costs have pretty much ballooned all around the world even from Asia. Locally too if I were to order just the box from Ultracast shipping would be almost three times the value. I know of one Canadian internet shop that closed down recently because shipping rates had driven away a large portion of his customers. Not one hundred percent sure about the similarity, but another option may be to obtain the bin from a model of the Crusader tank. The proper bin style is used as a master for scratch building an additional one. No savings really towards the current project project but if you have the inclination to build a Crusader some time in the future . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColonelKrypton Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 9 minutes ago, JackG said: I know of one Canadian internet shop that closed down recently because shipping rates had driven away a large portion of his customers. Jack, which one is that? cheers, Graham ( near Ottawa, Canada ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 @ColonelKrypton it was a shop out in BC and they mainly dealt with 72nd scale aircraft models. Looks like they are still in business but just to sell off whatever is still in stock https://www.westcoasthobbys.com/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FG2Si Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 4 hours ago, JackG said: @ColonelKrypton it was a shop out in BC and they mainly dealt with 72nd scale aircraft models. Looks like they are still in business but just to sell off whatever is still in stock https://www.westcoasthobbys.com/ I had great service from them. I was also disappointed when he said he was closing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted July 11, 2023 Share Posted July 11, 2023 ET Model do an etched version of the early round-top bin, EA35-048. BNA Modelworld in Oz stock ET but are out of stock of that item. Potentially they can get you one. About AU$10. https://www.bnamodelworld.com/military-vehicles-tanks-detail-up-parts-et-models-et-ea35-048 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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