TonyW Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I'm currently building a HP Victor tanker for the Matchbox Group Build. Part way through assembly I tried out reversing the outer wings. The kit takes on a rather different look at that point! I'll be finishing mine as Handley Page intended, but it's food for thought for someone. It's unlikely I'm the first to try this. Has anyone seen or built a full model? I really hope so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Well the cg would have to be moved forward a lot - perhaps reducing the payload of a Victor to that of a Vulcan? Or move the wing aft? The Kuchemann carrots would have to be removed, or at least moved to the trailing edge. Then there's the matter of the wing section (blunty bit forward please) and those ailerons... OK, leading edge slats plus spoilers? But would it look as good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Graham Boak said: But would it look as good? I doubt any radical modification could improve the original. Those lines rival the VC10 for pure elegance in my book. A Klingon designer might have different thoughts though. Gerry Anderson wasn't shy about reversing wings when it suited either. Aerodynamics be dammed! 😉 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarkas Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 On 1/24/2022 at 11:44 AM, TonyW said: Gerry Anderson wasn't shy about reversing wings when it suited either. Aerodynamics be dammed! 😉 If only it were that cut and dried... Forward-swept wings do have some aerodynamic advantages at certain speeds, but they haven't been used much due to aeroelastic problems before tailored composite naterials were available. As is well-known, Derek Meddings "flipped" the wing panels on Thunderbird 2 because he thought they looked better that way rather than for anything to do with aerodynamics -- yet another case of the people on various Anderson series getting things right (and horribly wrong, often on the same craft!) by luck rather than management. Of course, research has since shown that TB2's wings do have a problem at higher speeds, namely that the nose shock impinges on the tips and can cause damage. Getting back to the Victor, the "M-wing" was a potential planform for large supersonic aircraft (bombers and airliners) that cropped up a lot in the late 1950s and early 1960s. The idea was that it produced a decent-sized wing that benefited from the effect of sweep without becoming too long and spindly, and thereby prone to other aeroelastic problems. It should be noted that the usual M-wing design had the forward sweep on the inner panels and the aft sweep outboard. Details of one such project can be found here: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/armstrong-whitworth-awp-22-m-wing-sst.13319/ There were quite a few others of similar layout. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 On 1/24/2022 at 11:44 AM, TonyW said: Aerodynamics be dammed! Quite agree. It's Sci fi after all. Hmm, I have some old Airfix Buccaneer parts.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Pete in Lincs said: Quite agree. It's Sci fi after all. Hmm, I have some old Airfix Buccaneer parts.... Klingon Navy or Airforce? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Klingon Marine Corp, STOL version with the downward firing ejection seats. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Lambess Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 I will be sacrificing a matchbox Victor asap ....long live the spirit of Derek Meddlings and Gerry Anderson !..... It would look nice in Spectrum markings ....or WASP .....or SHADAIR 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF4EVER Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 5 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: Klingon Marine Corp, STOL version with the downward firing ejection seats. No Cardassian or Romulan? Spoiler ☹️ 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Des Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Has a kind of Flash Gordon look to it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 14 hours ago, Neil Lambess said: I will be sacrificing a matchbox Victor asap ....long live the spirit of Derek Meddlings and Gerry Anderson !..... It would look nice in Spectrum markings ....or WASP .....or SHADAIR I don't want to over encourage you, but just imagine a pair of Angel Interceptors being refuelled by one. If one of the re fuelling lines wouldn't release, a call to Thunderbirds would soon have TB2 keeping station, trying to figure out how to unload the Re Fueller Rescue Unit from its pod. Make it stop Mum.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dean Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 How about turning the high-tail "V" upside down too? You might get an Angel Interceptor to dock onto it and refuel that way. So that's one Victor, three Angel Interceptors, one Thunderbird Two, bespoke Captain Scarlet decals..............it's adding up! 🎵 Cap-tain Scar-let, dun, dun, dun, du dudda dum........🎶 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 Never mind a bigger boat, gonna need a bigger ceiling. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Lambess Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 On 29/01/2022 at 23:00, TonyW said: I don't want to over encourage you, but just imagine a pair of Angel Interceptors being refuelled by one. If one of the re fuelling lines wouldn't release, a call to Thunderbirds would soon have TB2 keeping station, trying to figure out how to unload the Re Fueller Rescue Unit from its pod. Make it stop Mum.... Hmm mm how to scratchbuild TB2 in 72nd.......tempting very tempting. 😛 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Neil Lambess said: Hmm mm how to scratchbuild TB2 in 72nd.......tempting very tempting. 😛 TB 1 would be on its wing no doubt. Depending on the altitude it all takes place at, TB5 might get a look in as well. The Victor hybrid might even have been trying to abduct the Fireflash! Cancel the bigger ceiling. Gonna need a bigger house. Happy to help, Tony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 There's a spare Hangar down the road at Scampton..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamS Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 On 1/29/2022 at 3:06 PM, TonyW said: Never mind a bigger boat, gonna need a bigger ceiling. A bigger padded cell, more like…. Graham 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Coombs Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 On 1/24/2022 at 11:04 AM, TonyW said: I'm currently building a HP Victor tanker for the Matchbox Group Build. Part way through assembly I tried out reversing the outer wings. The kit takes on a rather different look at that point! I'll be finishing mine as Handley Page intended, but it's food for thought for someone. It's unlikely I'm the first to try this. Has anyone seen or built a full model? I really hope so. Aren't you missing a trick by not reversing the tail unit to match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 On 31/01/2022 at 21:01, TonyW said: TB 1 would be on its wing no doubt. Depending on the altitude it all takes place at, TB5 might get a look in as well. The Victor hybrid might even have been trying to abduct the Fireflash! Cancel the bigger ceiling. Gonna need a bigger house. Happy to help, Tony. Steady there Tony you will have Fireball XL5 doing a max rate climb out through the formation while below Stingray patrols searching for those fishy things again. From reading all the above posts I can see there is going to be a run on the drugs trolley when nurse comes round the ward tonight 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyW Posted February 5, 2022 Author Share Posted February 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Steve Coombs said: Aren't you missing a trick by not reversing the tail unit to match? I didn't want it to look unbelievable. Mind you, another full unit fitted below the existing one would stabilize things at warp speed. Landings might get tricky though. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Coombs Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 23 minutes ago, TonyW said: I didn't want it to look unbelievable. Mind you, another full unit fitted below the existing one would stabilize things at warp speed. Landings might get tricky though. I dunno. Install the main undercarriage with a lot of fettling in the open airbrake bay and you could have an ascender/bottom-ender. Vertical take-off, of course, and requiring a gantry for weapons loading and crew access. Or adapt Thunderbird Two's launch ramp to go to the vertical. This evening's lasagne must be more potent than I thought. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 This gets more interesting by the post. New landing gear configuration. Nose leg and then another leg aft of the bomb bay. (Like a Vautour) Multi wheeled. that gets rid of the gear in the wing. That gives more room in the wing for fuel. Stabilizers in the carrots. So you still have the fuselage/wing at a decent height above the ground for lift. You then have the same bomb load and a greater range. Plus, the forward sweep gives a lower, more stable? landing speed. Oh, and maybe a telescopic giant ski ramp at the end of the runway. Just in case... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Since when did forward sweep give lower landing speeds? It also requires a heavier structure - attempts to prove otherwise with the F-5 testbed didn't work out. I've not seen any comments about the Berkut - but then I wouldn't expect any until after my best-buy date. (No comments required.) If you add another u/c leg aft that means increased weight which is bad. Like I said at the start of this, if you are going to do this move the wing aft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnT Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Graham , Graham 53 minutes ago, Graham Boak said: Since when did forward sweep give lower landing speeds? It also requires a heavier structure - attempts to prove otherwise with the F-5 testbed didn't work out. I've not seen any comments about the Berkut - but then I wouldn't expect any until after my best-buy date. (No comments required.) If you add another u/c leg aft that means increased weight which is bad. Like I said at the start of this, if you are going to do this move the wing aft. now you are being sensible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 I suppose so, but I feel that doing something silly but treating the consequences seriously is more fun than assuming anything goes. Might as well just assume antigravity, or ytivarg, as the wizard put it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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