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No.65 'East India' Squadron Spitfire Serials?


RainierHooker

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I'm doing a quick mojo-boosting build of a Tamiya Spitfire Mk.I and am planning on marking it as one of the aircraft, of No.65 Sdn from RAF Hornchurch in the May 1939 photo below:

 

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Particularly I'm interested in the second one from the foreground "FZ-O" as it gives a peak at the underside with the Type-A roundels and a lack of underwing serials. Or perhaps one of the three furthest from the camera with their half-black undersides. However, the little serials on the tails are illegible in the photo. Any Idea what the aircraft serials in the photo might be? It may me a non-event anyway, as I'm modeling in 1/72 and they might just be illegible on the model. But due diligence dictates...

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Well, after some googling looks like I mostly answered my own  question...

 

My preferred spit from the picture, FZ-O, is serial K9909 while FZ-L is serial K9906. The other four were not listed in the database I found, so there are still some blanks to fill in for the sake of curiosity.

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4 hours ago, Seawinder said:

Isn't it reasonably safe to assume that FZ-O has the same under-wing roundels as FZ-L? Also, AFAIK, one wouldn't find under-wing serials at all on Spitfires during this period.

My understanding is that spitfires were delivered with underwing serials in 1938/39 and when this picture was taken (May of 39) was when they were transitioning from aluminum to white/night undersides with or without underwing serials. It also seems as if many aircraft had different rounders or none at all under the wings. That is why I’m drawn to FZ-O as you can actually see the Type A rounded present, but without the serial. Iliad does a decal sheet for several spits of this period and every one of the undersides is different.

Edited by RainierHooker
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It's a lovely photo but ever since I was a child the pilot nearest always looks like he's wearing a SCUBA mask to me!

 

Lot of really interesting stuff going on. Obviously the A and B camo schemes between the front and back three but also the impression of outer rings on the fuselage roundels. I'm pretty certain FZ-O has a black oil cooler but not a black wing and it's intriguing how the oil coolers stand out as black on the other aircraft too, which makes me wonder if those wings are black, despite the black fuselage. But 

FZ-L appears to have a Sky oil cooler. The Sky demarcation line on the cowling is interesting too, a real ellipse from the centre of the wing root 

 

I assume I'm missing the obvious but the gun ports of FZ-L appear to be stuffed with cotton wool! 

 

Finally wow those aerials are tall.

 

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Nice choice of subject! I can offer the following.

 

FZ-A is K9903, being flown by Gordon Olive. It had the codes changed to YT-A and was damaged on ops 28 May 1940 over Dunkirk mid-morning when Olive was flying his second patrol of the day and was caught by a dozen Me 109s. Gordon was wounded but survived and was able to return to Manston. The the Spitfire was badly damaged and was sent to 64 Squadron after repair. There is a photo in 'Fighter Command' by David Oliver (top of p. 120), possibly from the Francois Prins collection, which I believe is of this plane after it landed at Manston, though the caption says it is at Middle Wallop.

 

The Spitfire production list gives both K9906 and K9913 as serials for FZ-L (maybe a typo?) but in the photo you can just make out the over-painted K9906 shadow on the rear fuselage. The production list also has K9909 as FZ-O.

 

In case you have not noticed, these are early build Spitfires with ring and bead sights, un-armoured windscreen, pole type aerial, twin pronged pitot tube and early pump-type undercarriage retraction which included a hydraulic tank mounted on the starboard side of the cockpit, behind the pilots seat. The cockpit door lock may also have been a simple ring and wire pull system rather than the rod type system later used. Also no crow bar or seat armour in 1939, and no deflection armour over the fuel tanks.

Edited by Peter Roberts
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Thanks @Peter Roberts it’s a closed cockpit 1/72 build (it was supposed to be a quick build, not a fall down the rabbit hole) so I haven’t really messed with cockpit details beyond a seat harness. Thankfully Tamiya supplied an un-armoured windscreen. Unfortunately I missed the ring-and-bead sight and the canopy is already affixed. As it is only glued with PVA, I may try to gingerly remove it and replace the sight with some PE rings that I have in the spares bin. I think I can bodge up a hood early pitot tube and a tall antenna.

 

The build is well underway, painting is done and decals sourced from the spare pile are currently drying. I went with aluminum undersides and a black oil cooler fairing. I ended up settling on 25 inch roundels on the fuselage sides, 35 inch roundels on the wing tops, and 44” Type A roundels on the undersides. No underwing serials, and light grey code letters. I don’t have anything nearly small enough for the tail codes, so I’ll probably try to carefully approximate something with a pencil after dullcote is on and dried. Quick and easy build, sure…

Edited by RainierHooker
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In progress...

 

51830009389_9c47a6b2f4_k.jpgIMG_4803 by Evan Bailly, on Flickr

 

I did manage to cut the canopy back off and replace the gunsight with a tiny little PE ring and post that can hardly be seen with the canopy reinstalled. But I know its there...

 

It would seem that K9909 had some misfortune befall it. Between the black oil cooler fairing and the bare aluminum front section of the port wing fillet, I wonder what was going on to necessitate the fitment of mismatched parts.

 

Apparently her poor luck came to a head when, recoded YT-O, she was shot down over Bazinghen, Pas-de-Calais with the loss of her pilot, Sgt Michael Keymer, on August 22nd 1940.

Edited by RainierHooker
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Nothing about these early Spits seems to be 'standard' so your work so far looks to be bang on IMHO and I just wish I could achieve such excellent results.

 

On the very non-aerodynamic cotton wool protruding from three of the the gun ports I can only think that perhaps it may be the censor at work to disguise the armament as the slip stream would presumably remove any such 'stuff'? There again who knows as none of the others have such an oddity.

 

Keep up the very, very good work and look forward to seeing it in full in due course.

 

Regards

Colin.

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16 hours ago, fishplanebeer said:

Still just wondering about the wing camo which definitely appears to wrap under slightly on all but FZ-L in the pic?

 

Not a major issue and my eyes may be deceiving me.

 

Regards

Colin.

I would tend to agree as it seems to be low down at the wing root. Thecwing is so thin though it's tricky to really tell where it is.

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