Sword RF-84F Thunderflash 1/72 - 14jun22 nearly there!

[Neil Lambess]

On 18/01/2022 at 10:01, Hamster Volant said:

 

Measure on the drawing leads to a length of 14.8m, whereas all other sources I have found agree on a 14.48m length (from tip on nose to end of the tailplane).

 

The problem is ...do we know if the official length is a ground line length (plumb bobs dropped and measured to include the nose high tail down stance of the aircraft on its undercart ) or a centreline length (fuselage completely horizontal as if in flight ) most data doesn't state which measuring method was used and the "length" would differ between the two methods ...

  

it's a minefield trying to determine what's right and what's wrong . I always try to compare to photos to see if the proportional ratios are right . Sword may have done this with the tailplane height to fuselage length ratio and either got it right or completely wrong .!

 

 

 

[Lightningboy2000]

5 hours ago, Shalako said:

Good point Martin (unless, you were joking about it) but I find it less likely to see shrinkage to the whole resin part, especially the size that the wings or the fuselage have. Rather, it is more likely to see shrinkage (or bending) in a part like a landing gear leg or wheel or just the tip of a wing for example.

 

Then again, you never know. We can't exclude this guess totally.

 

Personally, I live with that fear. I mean having some of my resin models, or resin parts that I have added to some fo my kits - like a cockpit - over the years to shrink and then what. Just imagine having some resin LG legs and suddenly to see the model leaning to one side!!

 

Cheers,

Bill

I was half joking about about the shrinkage. I was more thinking about the mould itself but I don't know what the molds were made out of, silicone maybe? I've never personally experienced resin aftermarket parts to shrink, that's not to say it doesn't happen.

I'm wondering how my PJ kit compares in length to my Airfix & Italeri builds (which I've had on the go for what seems like fifty years).  I'm sure I've got the genesis of a PJ Thunderstreak build thread on here somewhere. Something I'll have to return to.

Apologies to Ridgerunner Martin for hijacking his thread! 😉

[Chuck1945]

On 1/26/2022 at 12:23 AM, RidgeRunner said:

Bill, You really can’t beat an F-104A/B/C/D/F/G-installed J79, whether at idle or at any moment up to military power/afterburner :). Even the S had some charm

 

My favourite Starfighter base and my favourite aeroplane :). The hairs on my neck stand up from the first second of this video :).

 

 

Martin

Late to the party, but the run-up departure end of the runway at Aviano when a pair of F-4Ds light their burners is definitely a thrill (c1972).

[RidgeRunner]

7 hours ago, Lightningboy2000 said:

Hi Martin how you doing?

I see just noticed your pic of the PJ F-84F on Flickr & thought you were active again.

I spent quite a while with my PJ kit filling in all those bubbles & yes it's a pain that they've scaled it down a tad. Maybe their molds shrunk!

I've still got it in the primed stage so hopefully i'll get it back on the production line again.

Good to see you're tackling that Sword kit. I thought it wasn't too bad, but I went over it with the olfa scriber over every panel line to get more detail definition, with my Norwegian model.

I'll be keeping an eye on your progress with that.

All the best!

Martin

Hi Martin! It’s great to see you tagging along :). I was glad to get the wins on today, although I have removed the fin tip “light” and will fit a better shape one tomorrow. 

 

7 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

Just picked up on this thread Martin. Excellent choice of subject and I like the Greek option even better!

 

Shame regarding the PJ outline accuracy. I invested in one of these a while back, but will still likely make it as is. Sitting alone as a one off, it may not look so bad.

 

How do the Aeroscale plans compare to the Warpaint series (I have that), and how have you determined whose plans are the most accurate?

 

Accurate plans (or not as the case may be) seem to plague our hobby!

 

Nice start on the RF-84F

 

Terry

Hi Terry. Likewise, it’s good to see you.  In answer to your question I really don’t know. The Aeroscale is often mentioned as reliable. I know the Caruana drawings in Warpaint are way off. If you find a 100% drawing I’d be grateful of a copy. 

 

Its great to to see you out there on, Bill @Shalako. 

 

2 hours ago, Smudge said:

Hi Martin. Great choice to do the Greek version. Should look very cool.

Thanks Iain. I have an affinity with those Greek machines as I’ve previously mentioned

 

Hi Mike! @72modeler :). I’ve “invested” in another decal set for a potential Italian F-84F now so I need to find a solution ;). With my planned Greek F-84F that means at least two to build!

 

Martin

[RidgeRunner]

1 hour ago, Lightningboy2000 said:

Apologies to Ridgerunner Martin for hijacking his thread! 😉

No problem

[72modeler]

10 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

She is short and lean all round

Martin,

 

I was hoping I was wrong with my assessment of the PJ kit, for your sake; at least we are either both  pretty smart or dead wrong! (Sad that none of the reviews I rfead mentioned this!)  Looking good, my friend; I have you to blame, as now I want to do either a Belgian or  Greek RF! Pretty sure my F-84F will be a NethAF example- one thing about our Dutch friends, they never let their  weenie cookers get dirty!

Mike

[72modeler]

@Neil Lambess Neil,

 

Sometimes the published overall length of jets is a real minefield- is it:

Front: from the tip of the pitot tube, if fitted, or the front of the nose/intake?

Rear: from the rearmost edge of the fin/rudder or the rear of the tail cone/exhaust? Highly swept horizontal stabilizers that project past the tailcone can also affect the published overall length, if that factor is used in the published figure.

 

I seem to recall reading many years ago when Italeri released their 1/72 B-58A Hustler kit, they didn't realize which points of the airplane were used in the published overall length figure, and their kit ended up being too short, IIRC, and  because of this, the error was spread all along the length of the fuselage and thus was not correctable!

Mike

[corsaircorp]

Well done Martin !!

A greek one will look good !!

Sincerely.

CC

[RidgeRunner]

Just a little done today as I've had some time constraints :(. Right now she is sat with wings on plus:

 

1. wing tip lights added

2. fin tip lights re-modelled

3. Camera sight add

4. elevator/on pivot hole filled ready for adding a brass rod

 

 

I wanted to get the windscreen on but I had to jiggle the coaming around, involving a bit of painting, and so it'll wait until all that is dry. Next, after the windscreen, will be a complete survey and filling as needed. I also need to neaten the rear cockpi and paint that before adding the transparency. I might do this after priming. 

 

Martin

 

 

[heloman1]

An interesting and woefully ignored subject. However, didn't Heller (I think) release this in the late 1970's? I don't know how accurate that kit was.

 

Colin

[RidgeRunner]

11 minutes ago, heloman1 said:

An interesting and woefully ignored subject. However, didn't Heller (I think) release this in the late 1970's? I don't know how accurate that kit was.

 

Colin

They did Colin but it was in 1/48, or heir estimation of that scale

 

Martin

 

[heloman1]

1 minute ago, RidgeRunner said:

They did Colin but it was in 1/48, or heir estimation of that scale

 

Martin

 

Thanks Martin, a long time ago, memory is not always good. I was a member of the Portsmouth branch/club at the time. There was a guy who was interested in Dutch aerobatic teams but maybe that was a T-33? Heller made some good kits in the 70's I still have their Dragon Rapide.

 

Colin

[RidgeRunner]

They certainly did. I like the variety and that fact that they produced aircraft others didn't

 

Martin

 

[RidgeRunner]

Afternoon all!!

 

Sorry about the lack recent updates. It is because there haven't been any ;). Today, however, I got down to work and finished some corrective work as well as get various little improvements done. These improvements consisted of 1) the rudder stab trim, 2) ailerons stab-trims 3) tail skid. With those all done she has been filled where appropriate, with Gloop (dissolved sprue) and PPP. I had a few upsets on the way with a couple of wing fences deciding the want to go walkies but I got them back on. :).

 

The tail skid is made from rectagular section rod and thin plastic card. To me this addition is essential as mos F-/RF-84Fs are featured in photos with it. It is pretty crude on the aircraft and so my approach has been pretty successful. 

 

   

For the fin tip nav light housing I first cut out a section of the fin tip and then inserted some rectagularl rod. This gives the slightly protruding flat surface upon which the lights were installed. On both sides of this I added "triangular" shaped thin card pieces to build up the fairing. In the rear I inserted two 0.5mm rods to mimic the lights.  Sorry but I didn't take a photo during this process. You can see the stab trim pieces in the images below. After cleaning up the PPP I  went round and re-scribed damaged lines.

 

After all the above I got primer (Humbrol 1) overall, including the elevons.

 

 

 

 

 

Here she is now:

 

 

Martin

 

 

 

[Hook]

Scrubbing up nicely!

[Courageous]

Always a reassuring moment when you whack the primer on and all looks good. Good work.

 

Stuart

[RidgeRunner]

11 hours ago, Courageous said:

Always a reassuring moment when you whack the primer on and all looks good. Good work.

 

Stuart

Definitely, Stuart. It’s the new-found PPP clean up stage that I find disconcerting. It seems to get everywhere once you take water to it!  I now need to review her for any discrepancies. I also need to scribe any panels that could be opened, like the camera bays and speedbrakes. If not they will be lost in the paint as the moulded panel lines are very shallow.

 

Martin

[RidgeRunner]

As an aside, but related, my first Airfix F-84F arrived today - £9 from eBay - with the second in transit. While I fancied myGreek natural metal machine these two will be a 6 Stormo Italian and a Grey/Green/PR Blue Belgian. They will have donored parts from my stack of Sword RFs, especially the canopy and cockpit area. I have the Daco decals as they have been sat in my decal file for a few years and the Tauro Decals unit marks set has arrived. I have ordered the Tauro lettering set too and some period Italian roundels, also from Tauro. When I will get to doing them I have no idea!

 

Martin

[RidgeRunner]

Hi all! 

 

Among other things I've managed to get a bit more done. Having given the assembled model a primer coat (Humbrol 1 enamel) I painted the inner section behind the cockpit and then added the nice transparency section. The only criticism I'd have would be that it isnt curved enough. It beats the old Airfix set up anyway. After that I set about masking. For this machine - and all F-84F/RF-84Fs - you should consider the puttying around the glazing. To acheive this I opted to cut a mask very slightly smaller than the frame. For the main canopy I used strips of 2mm tape with circular corners while for the rear glazing I took the mask set as a guide and cut moe from tape. Thereafter the area and the canopy have been primed. Here she is in pre-primed condition. I needed to tidy the jointed a bit more. 

 

I have also re-scribed lines where the parts were movable, such as the camera hatches. This will enable me to wash these areas only and avoid the panel lines. 

 

 

I also assembled the underwing tanks. These come a four-piece items each (2 halves and two fins). Again, I filled around the joins, sanded the main join and re-scribed the panel lines. I wont be washing them but do want them to show. For final assembly on the model I drilled 0.5mm holes in the shackles and pylons, inserting 5mm brass rod in the pylons. This should make things easier and more robust.

 

 

Here she is dry fitted.

 

   

Next has come a bit of painting. Firstly a bit more priming, including the tanks. 

 

The Greek machines, like others, had red wing and elevon tips as well as a red no walk panel on the wings. In advance of painting red I have given these areas a white undercoat. I have also painted the wheel wells in Zinc Chromate Green. During this process I noticed the a nosewheel well must have moved during construction :(. It means that I will have to set the leg on an angled shim in order to get it correct. Right now she looks like this:

 

 

You can see that I have primed a second nosewheel legs. The first broke as I was trying to straighten it. Being soft plastic it got bent in the box. To be honest I might replace it with an old Airfix one anyway. That will be more sturdy. 

 

Next I will check for more blemishes before more painting and then get the red on. I will also get the putty areas painted and then mask them. After that I need to decide on paints. I am still in two (or more minds!). The standard USAF Vietnam grey is typically not represented correctly in enamels and so I need to mix it with a lightener (maybe white). The "Tan" will either be represented by lightened USAF Vietnam Tan or by Pale Stone. These machines were very sun bleached.  I will also paint the black dorsal di-electric panel. All that will probably be for Monday or Tuesday. As I am entering a short work contract my modelling time will be reduced  for a while......

 

Back soon,

 

Martin  

 

PS: I nearly forgot! I have drawn out the camouflage pattern masks too

 

 

 

[Chrisj2003]

18 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said:

I drilled 5mm holes

 Wow, anything left? 😉  Maybe 0.5mm??

 

Chris

[RidgeRunner]

29 minutes ago, Chrisj2003 said:

 Wow, anything left? 😉  Maybe 0.5mm??

 

Chris

oops ... 0.5mm!!!!!

[Hook]

Scrubbing up pretty well!

[RidgeRunner]

So far, mate. I had one casualty. I lost the tail skid and have started making another

 

 

[RidgeRunner]

21 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

I will also paint the black dorsal di-electric panel

Oops ..... she had this area painted, although it clearly wore over time and the dark surface underneath showed through. A weathering challenge ;). 

[RidgeRunner]

A bit more done over the past day or so. Pretty much it is all about painting. So far, I have airbrushed the putty areas around the canopy and rear glazing, painting the dorsal panel black and then painted the red parts - tips and no walk on the flaps. While the whole dorsal area is camouflaged the paint on the panel in question was very worn as you can see from the photo below. I will mask it off once painted with Sand and then either rub it with a fine sanding pad or rub it over with a Weathering powder. Right now she is sitting like this, awaiting an underside coat of light grey. For this I will mix FS26622 (US Vietnam grey) with some white. 

 

 

This is my subject aircraft. I have chosen this because it isnt represented elsewhere by decal sets (I like to be different ) and from this photo you can see most of the camouflage pattern. I will, of course, have to guess the port side pattern but it will work :). What I have realised from my research is that these aircraft had many repaints and thus the photos around of a number of individual aircraft actually show different paint finishes. Also, no two Greek 'streaks or 'flashes were alike!. 

 

Credit: public domain via www.thunderstreaks.com and taken by Gijs Hiltermann (lucky chap!).

 

For the upper areas, while it was essentially US Vietnam colours, these faded quickly and, as you can see, got dirty! It is interesting that while a school of thought that I recently subscribed to about panel lines washes for 1/72 models being not appropriate, I think that in this case it might be! I am thinking that the mix for all this could be Sand, US Vietnam Green and US Vietnam Dark Green, all with varying additions of white mixed in. 

 

Yesterday my decals arrived. I have everything I need in the the Icarus decal set apart from the serial number. The Icarus font style isnt entirely correct for my aircraft. Arctic Decals printed my drawing of this that was refined by Giorgio (@Giorgio N). As you can see, in this latest deklivery I also have the decals for my MiG-23MF and a future Finnish Draken :). 

 

Icarus set:

 

 

My print:

 

Back again soon

 

Martin