RidgeRunner Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Good morning all! After a brief spell with Covid , and having finished my penultimate shelf sitter (RF-101A to be RFI later today), I have decided to dive in to a kit that has been sat in the pile for a while. It is the Sword RF-84F Thunderflash kit in 1/72, number SW72116. As those of you with an interest in 1950s-era jet will know, this was released a couple of years ago and was hailed as a wise choice by Sword. The previous offering was only the old Italeri kit which has seen better days and has numerous inaccuracies, particularly in the nose area. So, with hope and excitement I broke the seal and began looking over the contents of the box: This kit has been criticised for being a little short so my first job was to match a fuselage part with scale drawings. In this case I used the Warpaint book (No.100) as it seems to be the best reference I can find. It is clear that the shape issues are still there. I wonder if Sword used the Italeri kit as a basis! ;). You can see below the areas in question: So my hopes that we now have a good RF-84F have been dashed! Sadly there is now other game in town other than the robustly-priced PJ Productions resin kit. I had this in the pile for a while but sold it, thinking the Sword would be good. More fool me! Clearly, apart from buying another PJ I have no choice other than to persist with this one. Having said all that it will still build to look like a 'Flash :). The kit is moulded in dark grey styrene and includes a fair bit of detail. This is "enhanced" with a choice of resin seats. The parts count is pretty much like all Sword kits of this size aircraft. My plan is to build this as a late model European operator machine. Right now I dont have confirmation of the production of the decals I need so I wont piin my flag to the mast just yet. It will, though, be something a little different, as you might expect from me. My references are the internet (of course ) and the following: I will be back with more on progress very soon. Martin PS: I havent forgotten the Su-20! It is just taking more time to prepare. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Consider my chair pulled up, sir! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 @RidgeRunner How is the wing span is it more of less correct ? Regards Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Robert said: @RidgeRunner How is the wing span is it more of less correct ? Regards Robert Yes, Robert, that looks just about perfect 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reini Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I have the same kit in the stash, looks to be interesting build of a very interesting subject. I acquired Vingtor decal sheet for it - so my plane will be norwegian. Will be following this 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 Just now, reini said: I acquired Vingtor decal sheet for it - so my plane will be norwegian. Hi Reini! I have that too but this one will not be Scandinavian. One of my next two will be, though! The natural metal one. Martin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Riot Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Looks good to me, it’s barely different from those plans, and certainly nothing that anyone would notice when it’s on your shelf, resplendent in paint and decals! Are any of the markings options for a USAFE one? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, Lord Riot said: Are any of the markings options for a USAFE one? nope Thanks for you view on the shapes, mate. 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Martin, Drawing up my chair for this one as the F/RF-84 series are a favourite of mine. I've got the Aerofax book which I think has a set of 1/72nd plans and the Sword kit, I'll dig it out and do a comparison. My only comment regarding the Warpaint plans, do we know they're accurate? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Martin, I found the Aerofax book (quite easily as it turns out), and offered up the Sword kit to their 1/72nd plans (using the cockpit as the datum), I observed the following: The kit nose is longer than the plan The kit forward fuselage profile is quite close to the plan. The kit fin is the same height as the plan (or fairly close), the chord of the kit's fin is narrower than the plan. The rear fuselage is quite short the undercut at the base of the rudder is very pronounced because the fuselage is too short. What this tells me that the plans don't agree so it's difficult to know what to trust however, both sets of plans confirm the rear fuselage is short. Oh for an accurate, modern F/RF-84F in 1/72nd! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marklo Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 9 minutes ago, Wez said: Oh for an accurate, modern F/RF-84F in 1/72nd! I can think of a way (nothing a bit of milliput wouldn't fix :)) but first step would be to get an accurate plan or you're in a hard ding to nowhere. That said I'm of the ilk to forgive anything I can see in your plan comparison, so long as the overall look isn't too far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 7 minutes ago, Marklo said: I can think of a way (nothing a bit of milliput wouldn't fix :)) but first step would be to get an accurate plan or you're in a hard ding to nowhere. That said I'm of the ilk to forgive anything I can see in your plan comparison, so long as the overall look isn't too far off. There's the rub, finding an accurate trustworthy set of plans. The difference between the height of the fin could be attributed to the fact that the Warpaint plan is for a later aircraft with the extended fin. The difference in chord is sortable but would require a whole lot of scribing. Fixing the rear fuselage is going to take more than just a bit of Milliput but would definitely involve Milliput. Personally, I'm coming down on the side of living with its faults and enjoying it when I come to make mine, after all, regardless of the kit's faults, it's still better than the alternative. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 53 minutes ago, Wez said: Personally, I'm coming down on the side of living with its faults and enjoying it when I come to make mine, after all, regardless of the kit's faults, it's still better than the alternative. I agree, Wez. It all reminds me of the LeO 45 discussions. I didn’t modify and it looks fine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Courageous Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I wondered where you'd been, glad you're all fixed and back at the bench. Looking forward to this, quite like the '84' with your usual little twist. Stuart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Volant Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I am currently building the Italeri kit - I also referred initially to the Warpaint drawing and discovered it is quite wrong in length. Measure on the drawing leads to a length of 14.8m, whereas all other sources I have found agree on a 14.48m length (from tip on nose to end of the tailplane). The height of the tail on Caruana's drawing is also suspicious - compare it with the height of the F-84F on the reverse and you'll notice it's higher, which is not the case on the real plane as the height is the same according to the sources. In fact, even the Warpaint disagrees with itself... Here are the results of my research: Warpaint (characteristics table) : 47ft 7 3/4in or approx. 14,50m Aircam: 47ft 5in or approx. 14,45m Profile: 47ft 5in or approx. 14,45m Aerofax Minigraph: 47ft 6in or approx. 14,48m F-40 Flugzeug der Bundeswehr: 14,48m Fly Brukt av det Norske Luftforsvaret: 14,48m Measure directly on the Warpaint drawing: 14,80m Measured directly on the Italeri kit: 14,45m 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billn53 Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 With all the conflicting information about dimensions (nose this, tail that), here’s my advice: 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 I'm still getting my act together ...... With the few parts separated and cleaned I am now preparing to give the cockpit and first coat. Images on suggest that for the RF-84F at the latter stages it is light grey. So, I'll be getting the airbrush out later. My reference is this French RF-84F-46-RE: I now have a question for the collective! The kit has two seats, a MB and a Republic seat. However, my machine has the later style. See below: The early seat and not what my machine has, and ... The later seat, which it did have. My questions is where can I source one of these? Is it common to other types? I know nothing about seats!!!! Thanks all, Martin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arie Vos Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I used the Pavla F-105 seat. This one looks good enough to me. http://www.pavlamodels.cz/katalogy/detail.php?k=seats&c=S72049&styl=styly.css 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 This morning I am thrown in to confusion! This is my target aircraft, apparently flown by the ER 2/33 "Savoie. However, this morning one of my French contacts (ex-Armee de l'Air ER33) says it is a photoshopped picture! Is this really true? I ask becuase it seems to complex to have been a set up. Also, there is this second photo. Any ideas?? @VG 33 @PATRICK FROM THE SANDS @TEMPESTMK5 @Wez any other French members or experts ??? Martin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukdalf Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Neither an expert or French, and if it will help you is uncertain, but I did find this picture of 2/33 'Savoie' Thunderflashes in Crosnier & Guhl's book "La Chasse a Reaction": Have fun with the build! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) Hi, no French Air Force plane has ever had yellow codes! If not photo-shopped, someone had some yellow paint to waste! Plus the RF-84F were at first NMF, then they got painted with a very original camo not seen on any other trench jet aircraft. They never were painted OD like on the photo. OD paint to waste? But then, there are always exceptions... although very strange to believe. JR Edited January 18, 2022 by jean 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 1 hour ago, jean said: Hi, no French Air Force plane has ever had yellow codes! If not photo-shopped, someone had some yellow paint to waste! Plus the RF-84F were at first NMF, then they got painted with a very original camo not seen on any other trench jet aircraft. They never were painted OD like on the photo. OD paint to waste? But then, there are always exceptions... although very strange to believe. JR Oh dear :(. Thanks Jean for this. In fact Giorgio has now analysed the images and says that they have some odd pixels around the codes. The consensus is now that I leave this alone and pick another subject aircraft :). I have one! Martin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) On 1/17/2022 at 10:34 AM, Wez said: both sets of plans confirm the rear fuselage is short. Martin, Do you have the Airfix F-84F kit? If so, compare the rear fuselage of the Airfix kit to the Sword kit and your drawings- maybe a graft from one to the other might work? (Might have to remove the larger drag chute housing on the Airfix Hog, IIRC. Maybe these will be useful? Mike Link to the F-84F bang seat- not sure this helps you much! http://www.ejectionsite.com/f84seat.htm Wrong scale, but does have some good modeling details and photos https://www.largescaleplanes.com/articles/article.php?aid=915 Martin-Baker Mk 3H as used on the F-84F https://i.pinimg.com/564x/07/dc/f6/07dcf6d798be61dafca2707563e0c548.jpg https://www.hpmhobbies.com/pj-productions-martin-baker-mk-3h-ejection-seat-accessories-1-72/ Edited January 18, 2022 by 72modeler added text, added link 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lufbery Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 10 hours ago, RidgeRunner said: This morning I am thrown in to confusion! This is my target aircraft, apparently flown by the ER 2/33 "Savoie. However, this morning one of my French contacts (ex-Armee de l'Air ER33) says it is a photoshopped picture! Is this really true? I ask becuase it seems to complex to have been a set up. Also, there is this second photo. Any ideas?? @VG 33 @PATRICK FROM THE SANDS @TEMPESTMK5 @Wez any other French members or experts ??? Martin Hi, This plane was discussed on a french forum : https://www.master194.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=112220 According to author Jean-Jacques Petit it was a paint test. Location would be Lahr (Germany), in 1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RidgeRunner Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 The seat is now on order - thanks @Arie Vos. I also now set my sights on another machine for which I have the full decal set :). Later this week I will post a few photos of my progress to date. So far it is a simple build although you must be minded that it is a short run type of mould quality. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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