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Metal Paints Tips


MattH912

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I am currently working on a Sabre and the new Eduard 1/48 P-51 Mustang, I am getting to the painting process and am getting a little worried. I have to paint the mustang in a variety of metal colours, I have never painted aircraft in an almost full metallic scheme before so this is very new territory for me so would really appreciate if some more experienced guys could help me out a bit here. I own a mixture of Mr Metal Colour and Mr Super Metallic, I was planning on using these but after some research have heard they are very very fragile paints and can cause issues when masking and handling. I was thinking of going out and purchasing some AK Xtreme Metal paints as have read amazing things about these and that they are very very durable paints, my only concern is when it comes to apply decals and I need to gloss coat the aircraft does the gloss coat take away from the metallic "shade" for lack of a better term. Also would it be recommended to finish the aircraft in a gloss coat or a semi gloss coat to achieve the best results with the AK Xtreme Metal paint. 

 

My other build, the sabre calls for flat aluminium and I have seen AK Xtreme Metal offer this exact colour, but again my only issue being when it comes to apply the decals and a gloss coat will the trouble the paints finish, and should I finish the aircraft in a flat clear coat or a gloss to achieve the best results with the Flat aluminium. 

 

Sorry if these questions sound silly but I could really use the help here. Thanks a lot!

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Don't know if it's the same as your super metallic but I recently tried the Mr. Color Super Metallic 2 silver and it's sure very robust, I did mask several areas to add other metallic tones and had no problems.

 

Regarding the use of coats over the metallic finish, generally you can apply decals over metallics without the need for a gloss coat, metallic paints are smooth and gloss enough for this. I have no direct experience with AK paints however.

Final coats are a different story.. some clear paints may dull the metallic effect, however there are some that do not have this problem, like Alclad's. Choosing a gloss or semigloss coat depends on what you want to achieve, in some cases certain metallic paints may look too bright for a realistic representation of an aircraft in scale, so some may prefer to tone them down with a semigloss coat. Depends a lot on the subject, a Thunderbirds F-100 may look right in a shiny finish while a war weary P-47 may look better in a semigloss or even flat finish.

Then there are those aircraft that were actually painted in aluminum and not left in natural metal, for these a flat or semigloss coat is mandatory as they would look wrong in a shiny finish.

 

Regarding the Sabre, I don't know why they would suggest a flat aluminum instead of a standard one... flat aluminum may make sense if your subject was painted aluminum, if it was a natural metal aircraft I'd just use various metallics. It should however be said that on the Sabre certain panels were not as shiny as others and in particular the centre wing section was very flat. Best way to reproduce these correctly is to check pictures and see which panels are more or less flat.

Now generally even on flat metallics it's possible to put the decals in place without a gloss coat, but again I don't know about AK's. Whatever final finish you choose, it's keeping these differences, so even the final coat would have to be sprayed using different paints over the various panels. Mind, some panels can be made flat by spraying a mix of metallic with a little grey paint, at least for those paints that can be mixed.

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I can't comment on your metallic paints as I use Vallejo Metal Color (which I can definitely recommend) but I would say that two very important steps in the process of achieving a good metallic finish are first preparing the plastic so it is as smooth as possible (metallic paints show every little scratch) and then applying a primer - I use gloss black as a primer for metallic finishes which I think looks great.

Mark

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On 1/17/2022 at 11:50 AM, Mark Harmsworth said:

I use gloss black as a primer for metallic finishes

I might bear this in mind for when I do my Red Tails P 51 as that is Metallic. I used matt black, simply because it was in the paint box. However I might see about getting a gloss black. I use Vallejo paints to and up to now find no problems with them to. 

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55 minutes ago, Valleyforge said:

I might bear this in mind for when I do my Red Tails P 51 as that is Metallic. I used matt black, simply because it was in the paint box. However I might see about getting a gloss black. I use Vallejo paints to and up to now find no problems with them to. 

The benefit of a gloss primer is that it should result in a smoother metallic finish than a matt one. 

 

Also I (strongly) suggest using Vallejo Metal Color rather than their Model Air Acrylic range which also has metallic paints - I only point that out as others have mentioned it on posts here. I should say that I haven't used Model Air metallics myself so can't back that up with first hand experience although I am very pleased with the Metal Color range.

Mark

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My preferred metal finishes are the three you mentioned:

 

Mr Metal Color is fragile and not suitable for masking. Excellent for exhausts such as here on this Mk.VIII

 

Bare Metal Finish 1

 

 

Mr Super Metallics are very robust and take a mask well. I do not have a picture with me but have used it for larger spray jobs without trouble. Negligible loss of finish when overcoated with Gunze clear lacquers. I still prefer the Super Metallics for aluminium prop blades for some reason. 

 

The AK Xtreme Metals are now my go to for natural metal finishes. Here are some images I have of my Aussie 8 Spitfire. AK Xtreme Metal masked and sprayed. Gloss Coat Gunze clear lacquer GX100 with some enamel wash. Colours used are Polished Aluminium, Aluminium and Flat Aluminium. Excuse the dust on the model. Should of blown it off before the photo. This model looks lovely in the flesh.

 

Bare Metal Finish 3

 

Bare Metal Finish 2

 

 

I had a little mask lifting when using their Polished Aluminium over their supplied Xtreme Metal black gloss base coat. Possibly it was insufficient curing time. I am not sure but soon shelved that product as I found a more reliable solution. I now use exclusively Gunze Gloss Black lacquer (GX002 Ueno Black) as the base coat and since its application I have had no issue. I also apply Gunze lacquer clear coats GX100 or 112 thinned with Mr Color Levelling Thinner over the AK Xtreme when required with no substantial reduction in finish. AK recommend their Gauzy Intermediate if you want a less aggressive solvent coat. I think you can get away without the clear coat if not required unless using it blend coat for decals. I have found the Xtreme quite robust.

 

I went into some detail with my learnings from the above build here:

 

 

I have since not done a full Xtreme Metal NMF job although I have a couple planned this year in a MiG-21 and RAAF Mk. Vc and really looking forward to it. An enjoyable experience.

 

In the mean time I continue to use Xtreme for most metal finishes such as here on my Tamiya F-4B. All the metal parts are finished with Xtreme Metal over a Gunze GX002 Ueno black base. No issues with masking. 

 

BM F-4B Construction 100

 

Make sure you add some stirring balls to the bottle and shake vigorously and regularly. Also note I still apply normal NMF principles, that being plenty of drying time between coats and de-tack the masking tape, remove carefully without pulling directly up from the painted surface. Probably a little more cautious than I need to be, but, you never know.

 

Do some experiments to ensure it works with your techniques.  

 

Ray

 

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18 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

Probably a little more cautious than I need to be, but, you never know.

It's always more cautious until it's not.

 

I try to be as careful as I can with metallics. My standard paints are Mr Color. I will use Alclad for details.

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17 hours ago, Mark Harmsworth said:

I should say that I haven't used Model Air metallics

Ive not used any metallic colours at the moment other than Tamiya XF 22; which is Flat ~Aluminium. That was the only metallic aluminium colour I had at the time. When I mixed it with IPA it seem to do the job; at the time. However, since then I can see were my mistakes are and I have read up a little more on the subject. Next kit I do Ill try a little more experimenting with other shades of metal and companies and see were I go from there

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18 hours ago, Mark Harmsworth said:

The benefit of a gloss primer is that it should result in a smoother metallic finish than a matt one. 

 

Also I (strongly) suggest using Vallejo Metal Color rather than their Model Air Acrylic range which also has metallic paints - I only point that out as others have mentioned it on posts here. I should say that I haven't used Model Air metallics myself so can't back that up with first hand experience although I am very pleased with the Metal Color range.

Mark

 

I have used Vallejo Model Air metallics and they are actually very good ! I still use them for details and in all those cases where I have to paint an aircraft that was painted in a metallic colour (like RAF aircraft in silver).

They are not as good as the Metal Color to represent proper natural metal finishes but they can look the part well enough if seen by themselves. Being cheaper than otn oer solutions, they may be an option for modellers on a budget

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16 hours ago, Ray_W said:

My preferred metal finishes are the three you mentioned:

 

Mr Metal Color is fragile and not suitable for masking. Excellent for exhausts such as here on this Mk.VIII

 

Bare Metal Finish 1

 

 

Mr Super Metallics are very robust and take a mask well. I do not have a picture with me but have used it for larger spray jobs without trouble. Negligible loss of finish when overcoated with Gunze clear lacquers. I still prefer the Super Metallics for aluminium prop blades for some reason. 

 

The AK Xtreme Metals are now my go to for natural metal finishes. Here are some images I have of my Aussie 8 Spitfire. AK Xtreme Metal masked and sprayed. Gloss Coat Gunze clear lacquer GX100 with some enamel wash. Colours used are Polished Aluminium, Aluminium and Flat Aluminium. Excuse the dust on the model. Should of blown it off before the photo. This model looks lovely in the flesh.

 

Bare Metal Finish 3

 

Bare Metal Finish 2

 

 

I had a little mask lifting when using their Polished Aluminium over their supplied Xtreme Metal black gloss base coat. Possibly it was insufficient curing time. I am not sure but soon shelved that product as I found a more reliable solution. I now use exclusively Gunze Gloss Black lacquer (GX002 Ueno Black) as the base coat and since its application I have had no issue. I also apply Gunze lacquer clear coats GX100 or 112 thinned with Mr Color Levelling Thinner over the AK Xtreme when required with no substantial reduction in finish. AK recommend their Gauzy Intermediate if you want a less aggressive solvent coat. I think you can get away without the clear coat if not required unless using it blend coat for decals. I have found the Xtreme quite robust.

 

I went into some detail with my learnings from the above build here:

 

 

I have since not done a full Xtreme Metal NMF job although I have a couple planned this year in a MiG-21 and RAAF Mk. Vc and really looking forward to it. An enjoyable experience.

 

In the mean time I continue to use Xtreme for most metal finishes such as here on my Tamiya F-4B. All the metal parts are finished with Xtreme Metal over a Gunze GX002 Ueno black base. No issues with masking. 

 

BM F-4B Construction 100

 

Make sure you add some stirring balls to the bottle and shake vigorously and regularly. Also note I still apply normal NMF principles, that being plenty of drying time between coats and de-tack the masking tape, remove carefully without pulling directly up from the painted surface. Probably a little more cautious than I need to be, but, you never know.

 

Do some experiments to ensure it works with your techniques.  

 

Ray

 

I have purchased some AK Xtreme Metal and can say the results are flawless, I have tested it on my "tester" FW and looks flawless, I have a Sabre and a P-51 to build with a mixture if polished to flat aluminium.

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8 hours ago, Valleyforge said:

Ive not used any metallic colours at the moment other than Tamiya XF 22; which is Flat ~Aluminium. 

 

XF-16 is Flat Aluminum.

XF-22 is RLM Grey 02.

 

 

 

Chris

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  • 1 month later...

I'm building the Airfix 1/48 Vampire, which should be silver (painted, not polished metal) all over. 

I have recently painted the underside of the Revell 1/32 Hunter, using Tamiya TS17 rattle can over a white primer. As with the Vampire on the aircraft this was a silver semi gloss paint. The result is OK, but I wonder if I could have done better. 

So, before I attack the Vampire, a few questions...

  • Is black a better undercoat for silver, rather than grey or white? 
  • Should the undercoat be matt or gloss?
  • Would I be better using Humbrol 11 through my airbrush than a rattle can or better an acrylic silver through the airbrush? 

Although I've been kit bashing for almost 60 years I've only recently tried air brushing and acrylic paints,  most of my painting has been with Humbrol enamel paints and hairy sticks! 

 

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15 minutes ago, 224 Peter said:
  • Is black a better undercoat for silver, rather than grey or white? 
  • Should the undercoat be matt or gloss?
  • Would I be better using Humbrol 11 through my airbrush than a rattle can or better an acrylic silver through the airbrush? 

Tamiya AS-12 directly over bare plastic - you shouldn't need a primer/undercoat as you're not trying to replicate natural metal, just a painted finish. After that, a semi-gloss clear does the job nicely.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Peter,

 

my last experience with silver painting on my Chipmunk was Super Fine Silver 2 from Mr. Hobby over a black gloss Tamiya. It works very well and the silver is the best and finest pigmented airbrush color. A little bit diluted and then sprayed in 3-4 thin layers. Hope it will help for your decision.

 

all the best

 

Andy spacer.png

spacer.pngmunk 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 31/03/2022 at 16:58, Andy Dyck said:

Hi Peter,

 

my last experience with silver painting on my Chipmunk was Super Fine Silver 2 from Mr. Hobby over a black gloss Tamiya. It works very well and the silver is the best and finest pigmented airbrush color. A little bit diluted and then sprayed in 3-4 thin layers. Hope it will help for your decision.

 

all the best

 

Andy spacer.png

spacer.pngmunk 

What products did you use to gloss coat before decals or did you apply decals directly onto model?

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On 4/1/2022 at 7:25 PM, 224 Peter said:

They look super... I used black as a base coat, but will try the Silver 2 from Mr Hobby: I've not tried that brand before. 

Thanks.

Yes Silver 2 is very very good. You will not be disappointed!

42 minutes ago, MattH912 said:

What products did you use to gloss coat before decals or did you apply decals directly onto model?

Yes put the decals directly onto the model. 

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3 hours ago, Andy Dyck said:

Yes Silver 2 is very very good. You will not be disappointed!

Yes put the decals directly onto the model. 

After this what to you then do to seal in the decals, sorry for more questions 

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Sorry for my stupidity. I should be a little bit more detailed. Don’t hesitate to ask more questions. So we have to differentiate a little bit. I also built the P -51 and the B-17 in 1/48. First let’s annotate that the wings of the P-51 are puttied and then painted silver, so here no metal effects. So on my P-51 from Eduard I puttied the engraved lines on the wings and the used Super Fine silver2, for the fuselage I used AK Metal extreme Polished Aluminum. After placing the decals I sprayed a thin layer of diluted semi gloss Tamiya X-35. The decals on the fuselage are sealed also with X-35, but selectively. You don’t need to mask them a little overspray doesn’t matter. Also went this way on my B-17. So you won’t loose the metal effect. On your F-86 I would suggest to use  Tamiya Black gloss as base and the use polished aluminum AK extreme and after applying the decals seal the hole model with Mr. Color GX 114 Flat Super Smooth clear. Don’t stir it up completely. Or better buy the semi gloss version. So you will get the matte aluminum effect. It’s all a little bit tricky. So I spent a lot of time to get experience. And finally is a matter of taste. For my taste a very high glossy polished metal effect doesn’t look so realistic on a model. But some fellows like this factoryfresh look. The P-51 pics are here in my topic’s „Ready for inspection.“ hope I could help you a little bit more and hope you can understand my poor writing and the meaning of it. 😂😂😂

best regards 

Andy 

Btw, on the last picture where you can see the B-17 rudder , I use Alclad White Aluminium to imitate the fabric.

I think finally we can sum up that AK Metal extreme and Mr. Hobby Super Metallic series is the best choice. Yesterday I received Superstainless 2 and will order also the Aluminum 2.  

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Edited by Andy Dyck
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  • 10 months later...

Plan to build a P51D for my next project. Been thinking about its bare metal color. When I did my Gabreski Sabre, I used tamiya's chrome silver, i thought it was quite nice, until I saw on facebook, a guy used Alclad II's aluminum. it actually has that little bit of light reflecting. Which is the reason of my doubt. So on 1/72 scale, should i go with chrome silver or aluminum ish, (XF16 etc)?

 

any thoughts? pros and cons? 

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