72modeler Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) I was doing some photo searches for good WW2 Mariner photos, and I saw this one that is the best view I have found that shows some airfoil-shaped blades above and below the horizontal stabilizers adjacent to the fins. Does anybody know what these are for? Only thing I can think of is they might keep the rudder or elevators from stalling or being locked at full deflection, or possibly they are some sort of vortex generator to smooth the airflow over those areas? @Tailspin Turtle Tommy- do you know? (Note the manual single .50cal tail gun position of the PBM-3S...if you can get past the WAVES!) Mike https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/pbm/pbm-3s-san-diego-california-1944/ I don't see them on the PBM-1's. Edited January 13, 2022 by 72modeler added text, corrected spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Sinclair Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 The USN descriptive arrangement diagrams, I do not have one for the PBM-1 have the blades, PBM-5, -5A do not have the blades, PBM-3D, -3R, -3S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 They looks like all those small airfoils in modern F1 cars - just to improve the airflow in the region. It was added during production, the very early build do not have them The reason of introducing them must be in some record from an accident. Regards J-W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Scroll down to the tail section, they mention them: http://legendsintheirowntime.com/LiTOT/PBM/PBM_IA_4509_DA.html Jari 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fubar57 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) From "PBM Mariner in action", "Vortex airfoils were added to the PBM-3's horizontal stabilizer to further 'fix' the tail problems that had plagued the Mariner. This fix consisted of four airfoils mounted over and under the horizontal stabilizer at the vertical fin, and was designed by Ellis (Sam) Shannon, a Martin test pilot. Shannon was enrolled in the 'Order of the Purple Martin' for this device, which was the highest honor bestowed by the Glenn L Martin Company in the field of scientific accomplishment." This includes the -3D and -3S Edited January 13, 2022 by fubar57 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fubar57 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Just went through the book again and there are definitely airfoils on the -3R as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Sinclair Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 The PBM were effectively produced in sequence, -1 September 1940 to March 1941 -3R April to October 1942 and a final 1 in June 1943 -3C October to December 1942, February to July 1943 -3S 1 in May 1943 then July to October 1943 -3D 1 in March 1943 then October 1943 to June 1944 -5 June 1944 to April 1945 and a final 1 in July 1945 -5E April 1945 to June 1947 -5A April 1948 to March 1949. So it looks like the modification was introduced during the -3 production run and possibly retrofitted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Interesting stuff. This reminds me that I did not buy a Academy 1/72 Mariner when it was first released, on the rare (for me) decision that I couldn't justify the expense. Now you can't get one anywhere, and I'm very miffed about that! Looking at pictures of the kit online, the Academy kit has these airfoils. It's a PBM-5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 13 minutes ago, Smudge said: Now you can't get one anywhere, and I'm very miffed about that! I think I read somewhere that they are planning to re-release it, but I might be wrong. Needs more accurate props and cowlings, (both available from Aeroline) and the rear fuselage is too skinny in profile, but is fixable, and there is a build out there I have seen that shows how to do this. If you can find the Rareplanes vacform Mariner, it is very accurate and has parts to build all the variants from the -3 to the -5. Minicraft did two boxings: the PBM-5 flying boat (CMK did resin beaching gear) and the -5A amphibian. The PBM-3's had CW R-2600 radials, and the PBM-5's had P&W R-2800 radials. Mike https://www.oldmodelkits.com/?detail=11339&page=383&soldarchive=1 https://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=11318&erl=Rareplane-1-72-Martin-PBM-3C-PBM-3R-PBM-3S-PBM-5-Mariner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smudge Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Thanks for all that @72modeler I'll keep a lookout for a re-release. Not sure if I could face such a large aircraft in vac-form, but I'll keep an eye out for one anyway. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev67 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 The Rareplans kit is a fantastic kit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janneman36 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 52 minutes ago, Smudge said: Interesting stuff. This reminds me that I did not buy a Academy 1/72 Mariner when it was first released, on the rare (for me) decision that I couldn't justify the expense. Now you can't get one anywhere, and I'm very miffed about that! Looking at pictures of the kit online, the Academy kit has these airfoils. It's a PBM-5 Look here if you want one …. https://www.aviationmegastore.com/martin-pbm5-mariner-pbm5a-also-possible-minicraft-mc11684-vliegtuig-modelbouw/product/?action=prodinfo&art=134121 cheers, Jan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 30 minutes ago, 72modeler said: too skinny in profile, but is fixable, and there is a build out there I have seen that shows how to do this The tailplane needs to be lifted. There used to be a conversion available for this but we haven't re-released it because Minicraft showed no signs of re-releasing the kit. https://www.hyperscale.com/2015/reviews/accessories/redroorrr7257reviewmd_1.htm The important part is at the bottom centre of the first picture, attached to its casting block. If anyone is actually building one we can do a bit of technical help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Ed Russell said: The tailplane needs to be lifted. There used to be a conversion available for this but we haven't re-released it because Minicraft showed no signs of re-releasing the kit. https://www.hyperscale.com/2015/reviews/accessories/redroorrr7257reviewmd_1.htm The important part is at the bottom centre of the first picture, attached to its casting block. If anyone is actually building one we can do a bit of technical help. Thanks, Ed for the post- wish I had bought the conversion/correction set for my Minicraft Mariner when it was available. I do have the resin Aeroline cowlings and props, and the Rareplanes vacform kit, so I guess if I'm not up to doing some plastic surgery on the Minicraft kit, I can always use the appropriate section from my Rareplanes kit- hate to trash that kit for such a small section, but the actual surgery doesn't look all that difficult, and I can always compare the fuselage halves of the two kits to see what needs to be done. I have the Caracal decal sheet as well as a pair of R-2800's from two of my Hasegawa F4U-1's, so I think I'm good to go. Just need to work up the nerve to actually do it! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krow113 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 I just sold this kit. Pretty rare from my research. Just thought I would drop it into this thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 50 minutes ago, 72modeler said: so I guess if I'm not up to doing some plastic surgery on the Minicraft kit, I can always use the appropriate section from my Rareplanes kit- The Rareplanes fuselage is correct - you don't need surgery. There's a good article by @Kiwikitbasher Mark Davies on building the Reareplanes kit. I certainly would not take bits of it to add to a Minicraft kit - there are better ways. As I say - if anyone is actually building one we can provide a bit of technical help. @krow113 - I hope you got a good price for it, they are very rare! I have never seen one and I have no idea how accurate or buildable it is. Looks like a @tomprobert project to me! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Do not forget the Mach 2 kit of Mariner, not that bad as people think about it: here converted to PBM3s variant. Stiil I would like to buy the Academy kit to convert to WW2 PBM5.... Regards J-W 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krow113 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Ed Russell said: The Rareplanes fuselage is correct - you don't need surgery. There's a good article by @Kiwikitbasher Mark Davies on building the Reareplanes kit. I certainly would not take bits of it to add to a Minicraft kit - there are better ways. As I say - if anyone is actually building one we can provide a bit of technical help. @krow113 - I hope you got a good price for it, they are very rare! I have never seen one and I have no idea how accurate or buildable it is. Looks like a @tomprobert project to me! 650 mer'can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve N Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) Although difficult to make out in these photos, they are definitely there on the PBM-5A at the Pima Air and Space Museum (the sole surviving Mariner.) I took the first photo in 2018 and the second in 2004, when she was still outside. SN Edited January 15, 2022 by Steve N 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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