Jump to content

PBM Mariner What is this for?


72modeler

Recommended Posts

I was doing some photo searches for good WW2 Mariner photos, and I saw this one that is the best view I have found that shows some airfoil-shaped blades above and below the horizontal stabilizers adjacent to the fins. Does anybody know what these are for? Only thing I can think of is they might keep the rudder or elevators from stalling or being locked at full deflection, or possibly they are some sort of vortex generator to smooth the airflow over those areas? @Tailspin Turtle Tommy- do you know? (Note the manual single .50cal  tail gun position of the PBM-3S...if you can get past the WAVES!)

Mike

 

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/usa/aircrafts-2-3/pbm/pbm-3s-san-diego-california-1944/

 

I don't see them on the PBM-1's.

Edited by 72modeler
added text, corrected spelling
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

They looks like all those small airfoils in modern F1 cars - just to improve the airflow in the region. It was added during production, the very early build do not have them 

api2gotrq__24286.1626709155.jpg?c=2

The reason of introducing them must be in some record from an accident.

Regards

J-W

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From "PBM Mariner in action", "Vortex airfoils were added to the PBM-3's horizontal stabilizer to further 'fix' the tail problems that had plagued the Mariner. This fix consisted of four airfoils mounted over and under the horizontal stabilizer at the vertical fin, and was designed by Ellis (Sam) Shannon, a Martin test pilot. Shannon was enrolled in the 'Order of the Purple Martin' for this device, which was the highest honor bestowed by the Glenn L Martin Company in the field of scientific accomplishment." This includes the -3D and -3S

Edited by fubar57
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The PBM were effectively produced in sequence,

-1 September 1940 to March 1941
-3R April to October 1942 and a final 1 in June 1943
-3C October to December 1942, February to July 1943
-3S 1 in May 1943 then July to October 1943
-3D 1 in March 1943 then October 1943 to June 1944
-5 June 1944 to April 1945 and a final 1 in July 1945
-5E April 1945 to June 1947
-5A April 1948 to March 1949.

 

So it looks like the modification was introduced during the -3 production run and possibly retrofitted.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting stuff.

 

This reminds me that I did not buy a Academy 1/72 Mariner when it was first released, on the rare (for me) decision that I couldn't justify the expense.  Now you can't get one anywhere, and I'm very miffed about that!

 

Looking at pictures of the kit online, the Academy kit has these airfoils. It's a PBM-5 :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Smudge said:

Now you can't get one anywhere, and I'm very miffed about that!

I think I read somewhere that they are planning to re-release it, but I might be wrong. Needs more accurate props and cowlings, (both available from Aeroline) and the rear fuselage is too skinny in profile, but is fixable, and there is a build out there I have seen that shows how to do this. If you can find the Rareplanes vacform Mariner, it is very accurate and has parts to build all the variants from the -3 to the -5. Minicraft did two boxings: the PBM-5 flying boat (CMK did resin beaching gear) and the -5A amphibian. The PBM-3's had CW R-2600  radials, and the PBM-5's had P&W R-2800 radials.

Mike

 

https://www.oldmodelkits.com/?detail=11339&page=383&soldarchive=1

https://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=11318&erl=Rareplane-1-72-Martin-PBM-3C-PBM-3R-PBM-3S-PBM-5-Mariner

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Smudge said:

Interesting stuff.

 

This reminds me that I did not buy a Academy 1/72 Mariner when it was first released, on the rare (for me) decision that I couldn't justify the expense.  Now you can't get one anywhere, and I'm very miffed about that!

 

Looking at pictures of the kit online, the Academy kit has these airfoils. It's a PBM-5 :)

Look here if you want one ….

https://www.aviationmegastore.com/martin-pbm5-mariner-pbm5a-also-possible-minicraft-mc11684-vliegtuig-modelbouw/product/?action=prodinfo&art=134121

 

cheers, Jan

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

too skinny in profile, but is fixable, and there is a build out there I have seen that shows how to do this

The tailplane needs to be lifted. There used to be a conversion available for this but we haven't re-released it because Minicraft showed no signs of re-releasing the kit.

https://www.hyperscale.com/2015/reviews/accessories/redroorrr7257reviewmd_1.htm

The important part is at the bottom centre of the first picture, attached to its casting block.

If anyone is actually building one we can do a bit of technical help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ed Russell said:

The tailplane needs to be lifted. There used to be a conversion available for this but we haven't re-released it because Minicraft showed no signs of re-releasing the kit.

https://www.hyperscale.com/2015/reviews/accessories/redroorrr7257reviewmd_1.htm

The important part is at the bottom centre of the first picture, attached to its casting block.

If anyone is actually building one we can do a bit of technical help.

Thanks, Ed for the post- wish I had bought the conversion/correction set for my Minicraft Mariner when it was available. I do have the resin Aeroline cowlings and props, and the Rareplanes vacform kit, so I guess if I'm not up to doing some plastic surgery on the Minicraft kit, I can always use  the  appropriate section from my Rareplanes kit- hate to trash that kit for such a small section, but the actual surgery doesn't look all that difficult, and I can always compare the fuselage halves of the two kits to see what needs to be done. I have the Caracal decal sheet as well as a pair of R-2800's from two of my Hasegawa F4U-1's, so I think I'm good to go. Just need  to work up the nerve to actually do it!

Mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

so I guess if I'm not up to doing some plastic surgery on the Minicraft kit, I can always use  the  appropriate section from my Rareplanes kit-

The Rareplanes fuselage is correct - you don't need surgery. There's a good article by @Kiwikitbasher Mark Davies on building the Reareplanes kit. I certainly would not take bits of it to add to a Minicraft kit - there are better ways. As I say - if anyone is actually building one we can provide a bit of technical help.

 

@krow113 - I hope you got a good price for it, they are very rare! I have never seen one and I have no idea how accurate or buildable it is. Looks like a @tomprobert project to me!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do not forget the Mach  2 kit of Mariner, not that bad as people think about it: 

40110391273_db9d39dfbc_b.jpg

here converted to PBM3s variant. 

Stiil I would like to buy the Academy kit to convert to WW2 PBM5....

Regards

J-W

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Ed Russell said:

The Rareplanes fuselage is correct - you don't need surgery. There's a good article by @Kiwikitbasher Mark Davies on building the Reareplanes kit. I certainly would not take bits of it to add to a Minicraft kit - there are better ways. As I say - if anyone is actually building one we can provide a bit of technical help.

 

@krow113 - I hope you got a good price for it, they are very rare! I have never seen one and I have no idea how accurate or buildable it is. Looks like a @tomprobert project to me!

650 mer'can

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although difficult to make out in these photos, they are definitely there on the PBM-5A at the Pima Air and Space Museum (the sole surviving Mariner.)  I took the first photo in 2018 and the second in 2004, when she was still outside.

 

SN

 

2LCNH8t.jpg

 

nVRAgEj.jpg

Edited by Steve N
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...