Which 1/48 Sabre should I buy for this airframe?

[k5054nz]

  

Hi all,

I'd like to build in 1/48 this F-86F that's statically preserved at Classic Flyers NZ Museum, Tauranga, New Zealand:

 

 

Could I build this airframe from the Canadair Sabre kit? If not, which kit should I use?

 

Thanks heaps!

[Wez]

It doesn't have wing fences so I'm assuming a slatted wing aircraft with the slats locked closed.  It looks like the long span wing too (the ailerons don't go to the wingtip).  Hasegawa did an F-40 (long spanned, slatted wing), IIRC.  I think Revell issued a version of the Hasegawa kit with parts to make a German Sabre 6 (replacement wingtips etc), that might be a cheaper option if you can find it.

[Vingtor]

The announced F-86F from Airfix should be perfect.

[Wez]

Just now, Vingtor said:

The announced F-86F from Airfix should be perfect.

 

True that, it would depend how long he wanted to wait.

[k5054nz]

I'm happy to wait - it was today's announcement that made me realise I'm not sure what variant the aircraft even is! I'm unsure whether it has a solid or slatted wing. Better photos of the aircraft can be seen here and here.

[Vingtor]

Looks like the aircraft has the long span slatted 6-3 wing. Just like the Airfix kit.

[Tony Edmundson]

6 hours ago, k5054nz said:

I'm happy to wait - it was today's announcement that made me realise I'm not sure what variant the aircraft even is! I'm unsure whether it has a solid or slatted wing. Better photos of the aircraft can be seen here and here.

That is clearly a F-86F-40, you can tell by the wingtips not including the ailerons and lack of side vents on the fuselage.   The old Hasegawa kit or the new Airfix kit would fit the bill.   The Hasegawa's slats are molded closed, and the Airfix's nose gear is way more accurate(and visible).    If it was me, I would get the new Airfix offering.

 

Tony

[k5054nz]

Thanks Tony and Vingtor, my decision is made: the new version of Airfix’s Sabre is now on my wishlist!

[Sabrejet]

@k5054nz - the airframe you show is one of a number of ex-Imperial Ethiopian AF F-86Fs that passed through South Africa many moons ago and were restored by Avspecs in Ardmore. As such it's an F-86F-25 with F-40 mods. So go for the Airfix F-40 kit and use aftermarket decals (there is a Korean Aces sheet in 1/48 which covers this machine). As Tony has said, this aircraft doesn't feature the TACAN cooling intake on the right, aft fuselage or the aerial fins on the nose or beneath the aft fuselage that are seen on most F-40s.

[72modeler]

9 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

So go for the Airfix F-40 kit

Just wondering- will the new Airfix kit with the F-40 wing have positionable  slats? 

Mike

[Sabrejet]

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

Just wondering- will the new Airfix kit with the F-40 wing have positionable  slats? 

Mike

Certainly looks like it

[k5054nz]

12 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

@k5054nz - the airframe you show is one of a number of ex-Imperial Ethiopian AF F-86Fs that passed through South Africa many moons ago and were restored by Avspecs in Ardmore. As such it's an F-86F-25 with F-40 mods. So go for the Airfix F-40 kit and use aftermarket decals (there is a Korean Aces sheet in 1/48 which covers this machine). As Tony has said, this aircraft doesn't feature the TACAN cooling intake on the right, aft fuselage or the aerial fins on the nose or beneath the aft fuselage that are seen on most F-40s.

Thanks for that, Sabrejet. Its history seems to be somewhat muddy - Geoff Goodall's Warbirds Directory says it's 52-4904, but the Kiwi Aircraft Images website says that aircraft was exported to the USA in 1997. Aerial Visuals confirms your view that it's it's 51-13496, which a Kiwi historian has confirmed at Wings Over New Zealand. I'm skeptical Avspecs did much work - if any - as she was in pretty rough condition when received at Classic Flyers. Thanks also for the decal lead and the detail info!

[Julien]

On 11/01/2022 at 17:12, 72modeler said:

Just wondering- will the new Airfix kit with the F-40 wing have positionable  slats? 

Mike

why the can of worms?

 

[72modeler]

45 minutes ago, Julien said:

why the can of worms?

Because once again, none of the current kit makers have seen fit to release a standard span and chord slatted wing Sabre in either 1/72 or 1/48 scale, If the new-tool Sabre shown in your post, Julien, is indeed a slatted F-40 wing Sabre, then the 6-3  wing section behind the slats would have to be removed and the slat bay and slats re-attached and the one foot added at each wingtip would have to be removed to take it back to a late  F-86E or F-86F-10, which were far more numerous in service, and I think much more desired by modelers in either scale. At least  my 1/48 scale brothers will at last have something to work from. Those of us who model in God's Own Scale will still have to be content in using a Cutting Edge slat set, modifying an Academy kit, or spending big bucks for the Red Roo  resin slatted wing. None of this is outside the ability of many modelers, but it does beg the question as to why a kit that has been on the most wanted list for so long in both scales continues to be ignored- the first kit maker that does one is going to have a license to print money! (If Arma Hobby ever does a jet- this should be the one, and they would most likely do it right!)

Mike

 

OK. rant over- we now return you to our regularly scheduled programming! 

[Giorgio N]

Were the E and F with original wing actually more numerous in service than the later F-40? 

There were sure more built with the original wing than with the F-40 but I wonder how many earlier aircraft received the F-40 conversion, I could not find numbers for these but I'd be interested in finding out

[Wez]

4 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

Were the E and F with original wing actually more numerous in service than the later F-40? 

There were sure more built with the original wing than with the F-40 but I wonder how many earlier aircraft received the F-40 conversion, I could not find numbers for these but I'd be interested in finding out

 

I think there's a place for both short span/chord and long span/chord wings in a kit.  Personally, I want to be able to make kits of slat wing Sabre F.4/E/Early F, I also want to make kits of those Sabres which soldiered on long after the mid-fifties particularly in those air forces of lesser developed/wealthy nations, many of these had the later long span/chord wing depicted in this kit, that many of them were converted from earlier blocks than the F-40 does make things a little fuzzy for me and I'm hoping somebody will come up with a definitive guide to the differences by block (although I do appreciate other later block differences would have migrated to earlier blocks anyway as time went by).

[72modeler]

@Giorgio N and @Wez, 

 

Good question! @Sabrejet will know, but I would think there were a lot more new-build Sabres with the narrow chord, short span, slatted wings than those with the F-40 wings. As you said, there probably weren't as many new-build F-86F-40's, but as Sabres got older or were reburbished/remanufactured for other nations, the F-40 wings were fitted, much like the USAF F-86D's that got the F-40 wings and became F-86L's. 

 

There is a Modelers' Guide to the Sabre and Fury, by Jay Sherlock, that I have  copy of, that is an excellent guide, with serials, profile drawings, and detailed descriptions of the changes/differences in each variant and block number. The guide also provides serials for each block and variant, as well as reviews of the kits existing when the guide was published in 2012, as well as a list of all surviving examples. I have no way of knowing if everything in the guide is 100% correct, but I'm betting Duncan also has a copy and can comment.

 

@Wez, If you have  variants or block numbers you are interested in, pm me and I can look up what is said about them.

Mike

 

From the guide referring to F-40 Sabres:

JSDAF F-40's added an air scoop on the RH rear fuselage approximately 18" behind the fuselage break line,

F-40 conversion kits were furnished to Korea, Nationalist China, Philippines, Spain, Portugal, and Saudi Arabia to convert earlier Sabres.

Many aircraft and almost all JSDAF examples had a TACAN antenna added to the upper nose, right behind the gun ranging radar.

All F-40's had the dual store wing.

Nose wheels  could have six open spokes, or a solid cast disc with 12 vanes; there was a third type  that was a solid cast disc with 24 small vanes.

Edited January 15, 2022 by 72modeler
added text

[Sabrejet]

48 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

From the guide referring to F-40 Sabres:

JSDAF F-40's added an air scoop on the RH rear fuselage approximately 18" behind the fuselage break line,

 

 

Many aircraft and almost all JSDAF examples had a TACAN antenna added to the upper nose, right behind the gun ranging radar.

 

The two are linked, and not specific to JASDF Sabres; the intake is a cooling duct for the TACAN equipment, with a small vent beneath the aft fuselage. There were two TACAN aerials, one above the nose and one on the fuselage underside, just aft of the main wheel wells.

 

The 'narrow-chord' wing issue for me is more about aircraft/schemes which apply to the narrow-chord wing and not so much about how many. As stated above, there are a number of Sabre 4s which only flew with the narrow-chord wing whilst in RAF service, and also a lot of late F-86Es/early F-86Fs which wore interesting schemes whilst in 'narrow-chord' guise but which can't be modelled OOB.