2022 Airfix Vintage Classics

[71chally]

Interesting about the Whirlwind, I can see both sides of the argument.

If you are definitely after a classic, for collecting or building reasons than yes this a good move.

But, I do think it's a lazy approach to keep banging out old kits like this one in particular, especially one so woefully inaccurate and underscale even. 

If I was non the wiser about 'Classic' releases and saw this kit on the shelf, and rushed home to open the box and build it - I would be pretty annoyed I think!

 

Luckily another kit manufacturer is bringing us a new S55/Whirlwind, really hope they reap the reward for bringing it to us.

 

 

I guess it's a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario though, and I doubt that too much analysis can't be given on the choice of reissues as re-releasing the Beaver and Basset (not to mention many other kits) is a great idea.

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by 71chally

[fightersweep]

1 hour ago, Rabbit Leader said:

If what’s going on in the 50th Anniversary of Matchbox Group Build can used as a gauge, then there is certainly a market for Vintage kits. Revell now own most of the original Matchbox moulds, however if they were to ever reissue these kits in similar fashion to what Airfix are doing (with original Roy Huxley artwork) I am sure they would be pleasantly surprised by the large volume of sales this would generate. 

 

Absolutely! A range of "Matchbox Classics" in period style boxes would be a cash cow for Revell. It would save having to pay some of the silly prices original kits seem to be going for these days since becoming the focus of the collectors. However, despite Revell owning the moulds, do they still have the rights to use the Matchbox brand name? I'm not sure where that sits and/or how complex an issue that is.

 

23 minutes ago, 71chally said:

But, I do think it's a lazy approach to keep banging out old kits like this one in particular, especially one so woefully inaccurate and underscale even. 

 

I think it's unfair to call it a lazy approach. I agreed with that sentiment when Airfix were putting very old kits out in new boxes as they used to and calling them new, but at least now they are branding them as "Vintage Classics". I think it's a good idea for Airfix to utilise their back catalogue in this way. Personally, I like it and have bought more classics than anything else lately. I'm not sure I would buy the Whirlwind either, but I'm very pleased to see the Dh Beaver coming back, especially when folk are asking up to £30 on that certain auction site. There's loads more of the aircraft I'd like to see such as the Cherokee Arrow and Shorts Skyvan and certainly more of the classic cars. I can then enjoy building these kits without paying collectors prices for the privilege.  

 

33 minutes ago, 71chally said:

If I was non the wiser about 'Classic' releases and saw this kit on the shelf, and rushed home to open the box and build it - I would be pretty annoyed I think!

 

In all fairness, if it's branded as a "Vintage Classic" on the box, then whoever is buying should get an inkling that the contents are not going to be state of the art. If I was in any doubt, I'd just look up a review before parting with my money. That's always been a problem though thinking about it. I remember buying kits back in the early 80s with my pocket money only to find an old duffer of a kit inside the box that was barely accurate enough to even be called a caricature. 1/72 Revell P-51D? I'm looking at you! 🤣

 

Cheers

Steve

[71chally]

I agree with you there Steve, in particular the Revell boxing of the Frog Gannet must have caused some disappointed faces at the work bench!

Ultimately reissuing classics doesn't hurt if they are branded as such.

I'm just sore because I do think Airfix should've issued a new tool Whirlwind!🤣

[Dave Swindell]

2 hours ago, 71chally said:

But, I do think it's a lazy approach to keep banging out old kits like this one in particular

A little unfair James, as Steve said above. 

Airfix isn't a huge company, they have a fairly small design and development staff, who, whether you like what they're producing or not, are busy developing new kits.

Some they've never tooled before and some that are new tooled versions of old favourites.

They do have a large back catalogue of old tools, and compared to releasing a new tool, releasing a re-issue would be much less involved from a design point of view.

Releasing a few of these as well as new tool models I see as good business sense, they're maximising their releases for the resources available, and if that makes them enough more money they might invest in some of it to develop more new kits. 

[Dave Fleming]

If anyone saw Dale from Airfix on the Interesting Modelling Company broadcast a few weeks back, it was clear they regard Vintage Classics as a nostalgia thing, and he was also clear that they regard them as limited edition, one run product, even if they don't class them as such. He also indicated that some tooling is in India, and some in the UK and the ones in the UK are unlikely to be used in production anytime soon (including the Rotodyne)

 

Separate previous conversations with other Airfix staff have indicated that they have access to pretty much all the historic Airfix tooling, with only one or two missing (SS France and SAM2 being the two acknowledged) and a couple not economic to use (1/48th Buccaneer due to all the production difficulties with warping for example). I do wonder if they have things like the old Hurricane mk IV, Westland Whirlwind fighter, Fw190D and P-38J  that were replaced in the 70s

[Matt W]

I have to say I agree with the above. It’s a bit unfair to say Airfix are being cheap. This year they seem to be the only manufacturer bringing out a diverse portfolio of new kits as well as reissued models with new parts & decals. Just look at what the much quoted Tamiya is offering this year, not much. I think releasing older models in the ‘classics’ format is great & a real trip down memory lane for us modellers of a certain vintage! 

.

[fightersweep]

1 hour ago, 71chally said:

I'm just sore because I do think Airfix should've issued a new tool Whirlwind!🤣

 

Who knows! Maybe if sales of the classic Whirlwind are good, Airfix will knock out a new kit. Well, it's good to be optimistic.

[Moggy]

I think the idea of re-releasing classic kits is basically a good one - personally it has brought back two unique subjects that I like: the Beaver and the Basset in 1/72.

However the idea of re-releasing a 65 years old kit is terrible. I have a half-finished one; that project died the day Italeri started producing their wonderful S-55 series.

Anyone not an Airfix nostalgic is going to get a shock when opening the Whirlwind kit box. It might well be the last Airfix kit he or she ever buy - since it will be their only reference to Airfix kit quality. I don't fancy an unexperienced modeller chances with it either for the same reason.

 

BTW I still have one unbuilt Westland Wessex helo - I will gladly exchange it for something cool 🤣

 

 

Cheers, Moggy (Airfix nostalgic.. to a point)

 

[Orso]

On 1/12/2022 at 12:47 AM, Meatbox8 said:

Could be worse though.  Revells P-51D is an abomination.

 

 

True, but it is pretty in pi... red 😄

[IanC]

9 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

If what’s going on in the 50th Anniversary of Matchbox Group Build can used as a gauge, then there is certainly a market for Vintage kits. Revell now own most of the original Matchbox moulds, however if they were to ever reissue these kits in similar fashion to what Airfix are doing (with original Roy Huxley artwork) I am sure they would be pleasantly surprised by the large volume of sales this would generate. 
Cheers.. Dave 

 

I agree. I'm assuming Revell couldn't acquire the rights to Huxley's artwork, or just wanted to go their own way. A shame, because for me it was always worth as much as the kit inside. 

[alt-92]

41 minutes ago, IanC said:

I'm assuming Revell couldn't acquire the rights to Huxley's artwork, or just wanted to go their own way.

According to this, the originals may have been lost.

https://downthetubes.net/roy-huxleys-matchbox-model-kit-art-and-more-offered-for-sale

 

Regarding the name, in 1991 Revell got a ten year lease from owner Mattel* to use the Matchbox brand name from 1991 up to 2001 but no further.

 

 

*Matchbox went from their post-bankruptcy HK owner to Tyco Toys, who ended up bought by Mattel. 

 

 

[VMA131Marine]

3 hours ago, Moggy said:

However the idea of re-releasing a 65 years old kit is terrible.

You should mention this to Atlantis Models; it’s their whole business model.

[Rabbit Leader]

1 hour ago, IanC said:

 

I agree. I'm assuming Revell couldn't acquire the rights to Huxley's artwork, or just wanted to go their own way. A shame, because for me it was always worth as much as the kit inside. 

You’re probably right Ian. On another thought, quite a number of these Matchbox kits appeared with different artwork when Revell released these kits with traditional top opening boxes. The decals changed as well, the Wellesley appearing in evocative No. 45 Squadron decals flying over the Pyramids and the Meteor in No. 152 Squadron bars - just to name a few. Perhaps these images are still within the rights of Revell to use at their own will? As for the ‘Matchbox’ name, that’s probably a tricky one, so I’d try to mimic the original as far as possible, then slap on a Revell logo. Most old heads like us will still sniff them out mile away! 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Dave Swindell]

6 hours ago, Matt W said:

Just look at what the much quoted Tamiya is offering this year, not much

That's Q1 2022, there will be more....

[MrB17]

9 minutes ago, VMA131Marine said:

4 hours ago, Moggy said:

 

You should mention this to Atlantis Models; it’s their whole business model.

One interesting component of Atlantis is that they also try to mold the parts in their original colours (some have multiple colour sprues). Also most of their subjects are fit the box scale and not very accurate. So the majority of their target market are baby boomers, and nostalgia is a huge part of it. I’m pretty sure other mainstream kit manufacturers are paying attention to Atlantis, because they are constantly rereleasing vintage kits. Their selection covers aircraft, automotive, armour, ships, space and sci-fi. The prices are certainly more reasonable than other big companies “vintage classics” etc. For collectors who don’t want to touch their originals, it gives them the ability to build their favourites and keep the original. The box art is mostly original with little or no text plastered across the image, everything is placed in a banner clear of the artwork. They have definitely put a lot thought into it and it seems to be working very well. They have just rereleased the 1/12 scale Wright Cyclone in all of its original colours for $40 US! The price range is from $15-$40, very reasonable…Airfix take note.

 

Jeff
 

[MrB17]

4 hours ago, Orso said:

 

 

True, but it is pretty in pi... red 😄

That photo is somewhat laughable yes, however a lot of modellers would never know what that kit actually looked like built up as per the OOB decals and resemblance ( I use that word loosely) to the incredible box art. I’m sure the likes of artists Leynwood, Cross, Koike and Huxley etc. are responsible for many more sales than the time when actual photos of the built model were stipulated. 
Thanks for posting this photo, I always wondered what it actually looked like.

 

Jeff

 

[cmatthewbacon]

I guess the other thing to consider is the vintage of classic modellers. I doubt there are many around who were buying kits as kids in 1955 these days, but there are probably a lot of us who are a bit nostalgic about the SA Bulldog, Beaver, Jetstream, Strikemaster Skyvan, Puma, Jaguar, F-80, Spitfire Vb (to name but a few I bought in Truscotts or Weys of Bude 1974-1983) and all those other kits that appeared new in the 70s, and others that were in the range at the time. Some may be of wide enough appeal to get re-tooled as new moulds, like the Blenheim or P-51, but there are a whole lot that might have that nostalgic appeal that either get issued as Vintage Classics or not at all...

best,

M.

[Andre B]

8 hours ago, Orso said:

 

 

True, but it is pretty in pi... red 😄

 

As said, some moulds would be better left in storage...

[Andre B]

I am not against "vintage kits". In fact, I usually am among the first to buy them. But I also want those good "vintage kits" that don't fool the builder (as the old 1/72 scale Revell P-51D Mustang).

 

Airfix still has many nice kits, better than the Whirlwind helicopter that we havn't seen for ages. There are better moulds to dust of. Kits that isn't that much "of scale".

 

What about these 1/72 scale kits?

The F4D-1 Skyray, the F-86D Sabre and the F-84F Thunderstreak? And wasn’t the A-7 Corsair a rather nice kit? And the  F2H Banshee? What about the A-1H Skyraider and the Dassault Super Mystere?

 

And the N.A. 39 Buccaneer? Well, maybe not that one...

 

Cheers / André 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Andre B

[dambuster]

17 hours ago, Moggy said:

 

Anyone not an Airfix nostalgic is going to get a shock when opening the Whirlwind kit box. It might well be the last Airfix kit he or she ever buy - since it will be their only reference to Airfix kit quality. I don't fancy an unexperienced modeller chances with it either for the same reason.

 

 

However, as a very inexperienced modeller of 10 years old not long after this was issued in the type 3 bag (being deliberately vague) it was just sufficiently colourful without too many pieces to encourage my interests in the hobby.  I didn’t need to know whether it was accurate or not, and I didn’t look at it as an example of kit quality, it was accepted at face value.  Progressing to more complicated Airfix models a large number of small parts was not always encouraging, and often resulted in more tube cement (!) on the outside of the model than on the surfaces to be joined. The first time ‘quality’ became an issue was when my father bought me the B-17 which had sufficiently badly warped wings for him to complain to Airfix and ask for a replacement.  
 

Sometimes I think we look at the high quality zillion-part offerings of today and lose sight of the other side of the hobby - youngtsters who go through a phase of building (relatively simple) models to what they see as an acceptable standard, getting a lot of pleasure from the experience, , and it is only later in life when they have the time and resources to start to cultivate a more ‘professional’ approach involving aftermarket products and rivet-counting that such models lose their attraction - apart from the nostalgia.

 

Peter

[AWFK10]

11 hours ago, Andre B said:

I am not against "vintage kits". In fact, I usually am among the first to buy them. But I also want those good "vintage kits" that don't fool the builder (as the old 1/72 scale Revell P-51D Mustang).

 

Airfix still has many nice kits, better than the Whirlwind helicopter that we havn't seen for ages. There are better moulds to dust of. Kits that isn't that much "of scale".

 

What about these 1/72 scale kits?

The F4D-1 Skyray, the F-86D Sabre and the F-84F Thunderstreak? And wasn’t the A-7 Corsair a rather nice kit? And the  F2H Banshee? What about the A-1H Skyraider and the Dassault Super Mystere?

 

And the N.A. 39 Buccaneer? Well, maybe not that one...

 

Cheers / André 

 

The A-7 is a very nice kit, I built it a couple of years ago. I made the Super Mystere when it was first released and it was OK as far as I remember (certainly a lot better than the Whirlwind) but for whatever reason it's not been around since 1988.

 

The 54mm Collectors' Series figures are another example. The Napoleonic and American War of Independence figure kits are good quality but they haven't been on release for at least 20 years and in some cases (e.g. 10th Hussar, AWI British grenadier, 95th Rifleman) for over 40 years. As well as producing good models in their own right they have bags of potential for conversion into other 18th/19th century subjects (witness the long series of Light Brigade conversions by Sid Horton in Airfix Magazine, for example) and therefore for multiple purchases. Yet we get offered the laughable "Stalin tank" instead, not to mention the Panther: it's quite a few years since a model shop proprietor told me he refused to stock it any more because the quality of the mouldings was now so bad that he feared it would lose him future business from newcomers to the hobby who might be attracted by the low price. 

[Giorgio N]

2 hours ago, dambuster said:

 
 

Sometimes I think we look at the high quality zillion-part offerings of today and lose sight of the other side of the hobby - youngtsters who go through a phase of building (relatively simple) models to what they see as an acceptable standard, getting a lot of pleasure from the experience, , and it is only later in life when they have the time and resources to start to cultivate a more ‘professional’ approach involving aftermarket products and rivet-counting that such models lose their attraction - apart from the nostalgia.

 

Peter

 

The question we should also ask is what kind of kit would a youngster prefer: a 60 year old kit or a modern one ?  Modern kits do not all have hundreds of parts, actually most of them are simple kits. In addition they are generally well moulded and engineered and fit well. Why should these be worse for a young modeller than kits from decades ago, kits that generally can't compete in terms of fit and often suffer from the many years of production ? We may have had great fun with those kits when we were kids, but I wonder if we aren't making the mistake of assuming that a kid today should enjoy something only because we enjoied it 30/40/50 years ago. I bet that if something like a 1/72 Academy Hellcat (used as an example of a modern simple and cheap kit)  was available when we were kids in the '60s and 70's we'd have loved it a lot and today we'd rave about how good that kit was compared to the others around...

Really I feel that old kits like the Airfix Vintage Classics are better suited to the older modellers who want to relive the days of yore rather than to beginner modellers, A kid may enjoy old kits for a while but soon even kids understand the difference between something easy to assemble that looks good when completed and something that needs a lot of work even to get the parts together. I mean, even I preferred certain kits to others when I was a kid....

 

[IanC]

2 hours ago, AWFK10 said:

 

The 54mm Collectors' Series figures are another example. The Napoleonic and American War of Independence figure kits are good quality but they haven't been on release for at least 20 years and in some cases (e.g. 10th Hussar, AWI British grenadier, 95th Rifleman) for over 40 years. As well as producing good models in their own right they have bags of potential for conversion into other 18th/19th century subjects (witness the long series of Light Brigade conversions by Sid Horton in Airfix Magazine, for example) and therefore for multiple purchases. 

 

Yes they were excellent and I had quite a few of them. My favourites were the English Civil War figures. I also remember converting a Napoleonic Highlander into a Roman, after an article in the Airfix annual - 1977? 😀

 

[AWFK10]

33 minutes ago, IanC said:

 

Yes they were excellent and I had quite a few of them. My favourites were the English Civil War figures. I also remember converting a Napoleonic Highlander into a Roman, after an article in the Airfix annual - 1977? 😀

 

 I can't lay my hand on it right now but one of the annuals has an article on building a Roman ballista and its crew, which sounds like the one you're thinking of. The 1974 annual has a conversion of the Highlander into a Samurai! As well as the Sid Horton articles, Airfix Magazine ran two series on Napoleonic and American Civil War conversions based on the 54mm figures. They're full of potential.

 

The ECW figures are actually the ones that were most recently available, as a boxed set, but even that was 15 years ago.

[JFM148]

After reading this thread I've got to confess I laughed so much,  I wonder why in the whole Earth would somebody care if a kid 5000 miles away buys a 50 year old Airfix kit that clearly states V I N T A G E in its box and then gets disappointed...!!!???  

 

Vintage is for nostalgic and weird modellers (me) who love to either collect the kit they were unable to buy as kids and/or do the hard work on them and built out a decent kit.    Yes, you can make really masterpieces from really bad kits if your have four things: Will, love, skills and patience.  Mike Grant, Vic Scheuerman and Spencer Pollard are inspirational on that regard for me.   

 

There is demand for these kinds of kits and I hope and I support the idea that Revell would do the same with their Vintage Frog and Matchbox range with new decals and original box art. 

 

BTW in 30-40 years from now I see a lot of critics buying that Tamiya/Eduard model they were unable to buy as kids.  Just make sure you demand it says VINTAGE on the box...