Humbrol paint availability

[Mr-Revenge]

Hi everyone. Totally new to this hobby and trying to gather all of the paints for my 1st build (1:72 Supermarine Spitfire Mk1.a) however im having an utter mare finding all of the required paints without using 3 or 4 online retailers and paying 3 or 4 lots of delivery in some cases the delivery is costing more than the order!

Ive managed to find all paints apart from 1 however was wondering how you go about getting your paints and if you can recommend any alternative makes that might be more readily available?

Im after Humbrol 9, 11, 24, 29, 30, 33, 34, 53, 78 and 61/104 for the pilot however going to look at anything for the skin colour as doesn't really matter)

I've sent an email to my local hobby shop Antics to see if they can sort me out in the meantime! 

I also got a Revell kit not really considering that would also require another set of potentially different paints...Although i did opt for a starter kit in this one which included 3 of the base paints!

[bentwaters81tfw]

Ditch 30 and use 163. 30 is the wrong shade by a mile. Also 11 silver is sludge and find an alternative. Humbrol paints are a bit of a curate's egg, and not what they were.

Trying to brush paint white is a nightmare, and yellow can be as bad.

 

You will get several different opinions on paint from people more qualified than me.

[Mr-Revenge]

15 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Ditch 30 and use 163. 30 is the wrong shade by a mile. Also 11 silver is sludge and find an alternative. Humbrol paints are a bit of a curate's egg, and not what they were.

Trying to brush paint white is a nightmare, and yellow can be as bad.

 

You will get several different opinions on paint from people more qualified than me.

Thanks for the advise... I was pricing up some Vallejo but finding matches is proving tough  (Should have also noted that im preferring Acrylic over Enamel  as enamel gives me a headache!

Edited January 5, 2022 by Mr-Revenge

[bentwaters81tfw]

Vallejo is good. You should be able to get a shade card from the retailer.

[treker_ed]

1 hour ago, Mr-Revenge said:

cases the delivery is costing more than the order!

@Mr-Revenge If they are doing it correctly, they MUST use a licenced carrier authorised to carry flammable liquids. This will cost more than using standard parcel post. This is why you will be finding that your parcel costs will be costing more than your small order. If you must use enamels, I would strongly recommend  Sovereign Hobbies, who also happen to be one of the retailers who have a presence on BM. @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies will be able to help you more. He has spent an extraordinary amount of time getting his paints matched to the appropriate standards. Personally, for various reasons, I am unable to use Enamels, but from what has been mentioned on various sub forums, they are possibly one of the best brands of enamel paints around and Jamie, may be able to guide you better!

Edited January 4, 2022 by treker_ed

[Alex Gordon]

Vallejo is pretty reasonable to brush on.There is a useful cross reference chart on Creative Models site here.If you go for Humbrol acrylic from the Humbrol site most of the time they don't have the full range all at the same time and quite frequently you'll be hard put to order enough to qualify for free postage.

Wonderland Models don't have a free postage option but their paint store,here,is pretty comprehensive and is well worth a look.

 

by the way.

[Tworrs]

There is a useful cross reference chart on Creative Models site here.

 

Thanks Alex, a very useful link that.

[Black Knight]

Have you got a Hobbycraft near you?

They do Revell acrylics and I recommend them for  

H 9 [tan] = R 82

H 11 [silver]= R 90

H 24 [yellow] = R 15

H 34 [white] = R 5

Where H = Humbrol & number and R = Revell & number

Revell acrylics have better pigments and give better coverage in my experience

[Seahawk]

13 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Vallejo is good. You should be able to get a shade card from the retailer.

Yes, Vallejo is good but I wouldn’t be guided by their shade chart - or by the name on the bottle.  The chances are that in Vallejo’s immense range there is a paint that matches the WW2 Ministry of Aircraft Production shade you need but also that it probably won’t bear the name of the colour.  Those that do bear the name of the colour you want are frequently (usually?) inaccurate.  There is a thread on here which discusses accurate Vallejo matches to MAP shades.  I’ll link to it when I’ve got the laptop fired up or at least give you the matches for some of the paints you want.  I wouldn’t trust on-line comparison charts either: anyone can (and does) come up with their own chart nowadays and you have no idea of how picky (or colour-blind) they are.   Some are more concerned with selling paint than selling accurate paint  I trust my fellow modellers on this board (well, some of them, anyway) more than any random Joe off the internet.

 

Or you could just buy Colourcoats enamels, which are beyond reproach.

 

PS I like Revell acrylics as well, not least for their dense pigment, but am seriously off them at the mo, having discovered that the paint in many completely unopened pots I have had set rock hard after a year or so's storage  Big investment written off.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Seahawk

[Seahawk]

Afraid I haven't time at the mo to wade through all the posts for the most recent thread on Vallejo/MAP matches but I think it was in Feb 2020.

 

For the colours you enquire about. the best brains of Britmodeller came up with the following: (read Humbrol No/MAP name/Vallejo number/Vallejo name)

 

9

11  This is Humbrol silver.  Not sure what it's intended for on your kit.   Not a MAP paint.

24/Yellow/71.062 Medium Yellow

29/Dark Earth/70.921 English Uniform (or 70.873 Basic Color)

30/Dark Green/70.893 US Dark Green

33/Night/70.950 Black 

34/White/71.001 White

53/Aluminium/71.062 Aluminium is one of the best on the market, even for brush painters.

78/Grey Green (often called by modellers cockpit green)/71.126 IDF/IAF Green

61/104: I am sure Vallejo have about 25 shades of Flesh for you to choose from.

 

I'm surprised not to see MAP Sky, the normal underside colour for fighters during Battle of Britain period on your list, but the best Vallejo match for that is 70.885 Pastel Green

 

70. prefixes are for Model Color, 71. for Model Air, which are supposed to be prethinned for airbrash users.  As an exclusive brush painter I use both interchangeably and can't really tell a difference.

 

Sorry if this all comes over as a bit pedantic for a beginner but if you're going out to make a sizeable investment in buying a wadge of paints, you may as well get the right ones, not ones you'll want to replace as you learn more.

 

My local Antics has given up stocking Vallejo in-store (apparently people prefer other, coincidentally more expensive paints nowadays - and there are hundreds of Vallejos!) but they can get them delivered from the warehouse.

 

Hope this helps.

[Freester]

There are other people way more qualified than me. I recently took this hobby up again but my advice is...

 

As a hairy stick painter I've been using Revell Enamels thinned with white spirit and latterly enamel thinners. Thin coats let them dry overnight at least 4 or 5 coats.

 

Don't go buying all the Revell paints you most likely have a lot of colours close enough in the set of Humbrol you have. I am the other way round started building up a collection of Revell enamels which I use for my Airfix and Hobby Boss kits as well. Google for modelling colour conversion charts you should be able to find equivalents. Looking at Scalemates instructions of similar models from different manufacturers if they exist to get the equivalent colours in different brands.

 

Unless you are hell bent on getting the correct colours don't sweat the small stuff. OK for a big part of the body get the right colour or equivalent. BUT if it says a specific 'khaki' for the interior of a 1/72 model just see if you have a close colour. Some of the shade differences are minute and not noticeable.

 

Find a local store that stocks the paint you like to use...

[Mr-Revenge]

1 hour ago, Seahawk said:

Afraid I haven't time at the mo to wade through all the posts for the most recent thread on Vallejo/MAP matches but I think it was in Feb 2020.

 

For the colours you enquire about. the best brains of Britmodeller came up with the following: (read Humbrol No/MAP name/Vallejo number/Vallejo name)

 

9

11  This is Humbrol silver.  Not sure what it's intended for on your kit.   Not a MAP paint.

24/Yellow/71.062 Medium Yellow

29/Dark Earth/70.921 English Uniform (or 70.873 Basic Color)

30/Dark Green/70.893 US Dark Green

33/Night/70.950 Black 

34/White/71.001 White

53/Aluminium/71.062 Aluminium is one of the best on the market, even for brush painters.

78/Grey Green (often called by modellers cockpit green)/71.126 IDF/IAF Green

61/104: I am sure Vallejo have about 25 shades of Flesh for you to choose from.

 

I'm surprised not to see MAP Sky, the normal underside colour for fighters during Battle of Britain period on your list, but the best Vallejo match for that is 70.885 Pastel Green

 

70. prefixes are for Model Color, 71. for Model Air, which are supposed to be prethinned for airbrash users.  As an exclusive brush painter I use both interchangeably and can't really tell a difference.

 

Sorry if this all comes over as a bit pedantic for a beginner but if you're going out to make a sizeable investment in buying a wadge of paints, you may as well get the right ones, not ones you'll want to replace as you learn more.

 

My local Antics has given up stocking Vallejo in-store (apparently people prefer other, coincidentally more expensive paints nowadays - and there are hundreds of Vallejos!) but they can get them delivered from the warehouse.

 

Hope this helps.

Not pedantic at all as a total newbie a really appreciate all of the help everyone here is giving me and the time taken to reply to me! 

As you said buying a load of 1st time paints like this isnt cheap so i want to make sure I get it right!

Looks like the rear underside tail section is painted in 11 silver (going from the rear of the box art) Although looking at pictures of the aircraft they appear to be either black and white/off white or a light green... im yet to see a picture in colour with a silver tail!

 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Mr-Revenge

[Troy Smith]

8 hours ago, Mr-Revenge said:

Looks like the rear underside tail section is painted in 11 silver (going from the rear of the box art) Although looking at pictures of the aircraft they appear to be either black and white/off white or a light green... im yet to see a picture in colour with a silver tail!

 

Two points

 

One

Early Spitfires go through a confusing range of changes of underside colours between 1939 to 1941.

There is an old, but still excellent monograph on this scanned here

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Supermarine-Spitfire

 

It may all seem a bit much,  but it puts what may seem random into a timeline context of how the schemes and markings evolved.    You will find many of the poster here will refer to this.

Why is it of note? when this was published around 1970, it made of then recently declassified documents,  which filled put many observations.   

 

 

which leads to Two, It also use the correct names for the Ministry of Aircraft productions paints used,  (note they are capitalised, as they are specfic colour names) in the case of early Spitfires uppers in Dark Green/Dark Earth, undersides in Aluminium dope (ie paint, not bare metal) then with Night/White undersides. sometimes with Aluminium parts,  then introduction of Sky in June 1940 (which is a pale green), and when introduced was in short supply,  so mixes and possibly substitution occur, then a black port wing with Sky undersides, Nov-April 40/41, then Medium Sea Grey from August 1941, with Ocean Grey replacing Dark Earth.

I've not gone into roundels or other aspects, but they are also discussed in the link.     Bear in mind model companies tend to use reasonably well documented aircraft, and you can usually find the reference photo online. 

 

 

The point I'm trying to make, is trying to match up one companies idea of a colour* with another companies idea is like paint chinese whispers.   its a lot easier# to try to find matches to the real colours.

 

And, since you are a member here, you can always start a thread in the relevant section,  note, it's well worth running your questions through google and adding britmodeller, eg the thread below I found by "britmodeller humbrol 30"  I mentions this as it is always good to to see if you can find the answer first, or just link a thread that doesn't quite answer your question, and it's worth being specific,  Spitfire colour 1940 is not a good question(as the monograph will quickly show) but "Spitfire P**** of XX Sq.  1940 query"  will quickly narrow down results, and don't be afraid to ask if you can't find an answer,  everyone has to start somewhere,  and at least here there is a positive attitude of being helpful and friendly.

 

 

Now we descend into anorakdom.   Be aware this is down the rabbit hole and through the looking glass territory....  

 

* case in point, mentioned above.  Humbrol, therefore now Airfix as well, have been punting out Humbrol 30 as Dark Green since the 1970's.  H30 in the 60's DID look about right, ie a dark olive green,  at some point the forumla changed and it's been this blue hued green ever since,  it was in 1975, as I used Airfix paint then , and their Dark Green was olive hued, and the Humbrol was the blue green.  I have remains of model from then to prove it.

And I was a very unimpressed nine year old with this 'same' colour even then.

That Humbrol/Airfix still punt this now is really a disgrace,  but there are many modellers who are so used to it it's "right"

for more, on this see

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234940980-green-green-my-love-is-map-green-humbrol-30-changed/

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/79140-raf-dark-green/

or even

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234989589-humbrol-30-is-there-a-use-for-it/

# if model paint companies, could, to misuse a phrase,  match colours with both hands and a map. (noted exception, Colourcoats, but they are enamel) acrylic user have many choices,  but.  This is getting pretty anoraky, but I have a various "RAF" colours by Xtracrylix, AK Interactive, Vallejo, Hatake (samples I was sent) and various Tamiya colours (to be fair, they are just a range of colours),  Humbrol acrylics are pretty hit and miss, though the new dropper ones maybe better.

 

NONE of the above match the chips I have. Some are better than others,  and as @Seahawk points out, Vallejo have a vast range, but they are "not very good " at  matching these up with the real thing. 

 

The list Seahawk posted is reasonable,  at least the Dark Green isn't flippin' blue, so unless you want to go down that rabbit hole (and , trust me, you don't) it's a reasonable list.

 

If you really want an idea of paint companies, and paint matches, try this one

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/41520-the-sky-type-“s”-is-the-limit-now-with-made-in-the-uk-humbrol-90/

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235072536-sand-and-spinach/

 

If you do have the time, have a read of the BM links,  as you will learn an awful lot.   Or get a headache.    

 

One final one, @Etiennedup  has been collating period colour images,  these are the Spitfires. A random collection but very very useful, especially for how real aircraft looked (too many models are made to look like other models....)  

https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=spitfire&user_id=8270787%40N07&view_all=1

 

for your early Spitfire, there are some Life magazine shots that really do catch the colours very well,  these are Dark Green/Dark Earth/Sky

 

Spitfire in England by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Spitfire in England. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Spitfire II. 1941. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

HTH

[Mr-Revenge]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Two points

 

One

Early Spitfires go through a confusing range of changes of underside colours between 1939 to 1941.

There is an old, but still excellent monograph on this scanned here

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Supermarine-Spitfire

 

It may all seem a bit much,  but it puts what may seem random into a timeline context of how the schemes and markings evolved.    You will find many of the poster here will refer to this.

Why is it of note? when this was published around 1970, it made of then recently declassified documents,  which filled put many observations.   

 

 

which leads to Two, It also use the correct names for the Ministry of Aircraft productions paints used,  (note they are capitalised, as they are specfic colour names) in the case of early Spitfires uppers in Dark Green/Dark Earth, undersides in Aluminium dope (ie paint, not bare metal) then with Night/White undersides. sometimes with Aluminium parts,  then introduction of Sky in June 1940 (which is a pale green), and when introduced was in short supply,  so mixes and possibly substitution occur, then a black port wing with Sky undersides, Nov-April 40/41, then Medium Sea Grey from August 1941, with Ocean Grey replacing Dark Earth.

I've not gone into roundels or other aspects, but they are also discussed in the link.     Bear in mind model companies tend to use reasonably well documented aircraft, and you can usually find the reference photo online. 

 

 

The point I'm trying to make, is trying to match up one companies idea of a colour* with another companies idea is like paint chinese whispers.   its a lot easier# to try to find matches to the real colours.

 

And, since you are a member here, you can always start a thread in the relevant section,  note, it's well worth running your questions through google and adding britmodeller, eg the thread below I found by "britmodeller humbrol 30"  I mentions this as it is always good to to see if you can find the answer first, or just link a thread that doesn't quite answer your question, and it's worth being specific,  Spitfire colour 1940 is not a good question(as the monograph will quickly show) but "Spitfire P**** of XX Sq.  1940 query"  will quickly narrow down results, and don't be afraid to ask if you can't find an answer,  everyone has to start somewhere,  and at least here there is a positive attitude of being helpful and friendly.

 

 

Now we descend into anorakdom.   Be aware this is down the rabbit hole and through the looking glass territory....  

 

* case in point, mentioned above.  Humbrol, therefore now Airfix as well, have been punting out Humbrol 30 as Dark Green since the 1970's.  H30 in the 60's DID look about right, ie a dark olive green,  at some point the forumla changed and it's been this blue hued green ever since,  it was in 1975, as I used Airfix paint then , and their Dark Green was olive hued, and the Humbrol was the blue green.  I have remains of model from then to prove it.

And I was a very unimpressed nine year old with this 'same' colour even then.

That Humbrol/Airfix still punt this now is really a disgrace,  but there are many modellers who are so used to it it's "right"

for more, on this see

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234940980-green-green-my-love-is-map-green-humbrol-30-changed/

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/79140-raf-dark-green/

or even

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234989589-humbrol-30-is-there-a-use-for-it/

# if model paint companies, could, to misuse a phrase,  match colours with both hands and a map. (noted exception, Colourcoats, but they are enamel) acrylic user have many choices,  but.  This is getting pretty anoraky, but I have a various "RAF" colours by Xtracrylix, AK Interactive, Vallejo, Hatake (samples I was sent) and various Tamiya colours (to be fair, they are just a range of colours),  Humbrol acrylics are pretty hit and miss, though the new dropper ones maybe better.

 

NONE of the above match the chips I have. Some are better than others,  and as @Seahawk points out, Vallejo have a vast range, but they are "not very good " at  matching these up with the real thing. 

 

The list Seahawk posted is reasonable,  at least the Dark Green isn't flippin' blue, so unless you want to go down that rabbit hole (and , trust me, you don't) it's a reasonable list.

 

If you really want an idea of paint companies, and paint matches, try this one

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/41520-the-sky-type-“s”-is-the-limit-now-with-made-in-the-uk-humbrol-90/

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235072536-sand-and-spinach/

 

If you do have the time, have a read of the BM links,  as you will learn an awful lot.   Or get a headache.    

 

One final one, @Etiennedup  has been collating period colour images,  these are the Spitfires. A random collection but very very useful, especially for how real aircraft looked (too many models are made to look like other models....)  

https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=spitfire&user_id=8270787%40N07&view_all=1

 

for your early Spitfire, there are some Life magazine shots that really do catch the colours very well,  these are Dark Green/Dark Earth/Sky

 

Spitfire in England by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Spitfire in England. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

Spitfire II. 1941. by Etienne du Plessis, on Flickr

 

HTH

Thanks for the reply really appreciate it! I’m going to try and not sweat the details too much at this point as the model will likely be terrible once I’ve butchered it anyway🤣

[Jochen Barett]

On 04/01/2022 at 21:32, Mr-Revenge said:

Hi +++
Im after Humbrol 9, 11, 24, 29, 30, 33, 34, 53, 78 and 61/104 for the pilot however going to look at anything for the skin colour as doesn't really matter)
+++

 

It is a fine art to ballance thorough research (rivet counting, color matching etc.), availability & price and getting a plastic model finished SOME day.

 

In the olden days (before Humbrol introduced 61) "flesh" was mixed using "3 parts white (34), 2 parts yellow (24), and 1 part red (19, 20 or 60)". This usually ended up in pinkish faces and hands, but using less red and maybe adding a dash of 9 (tan) or 29 (dark earth) can settle that question.

 

We even mixed our own "gun-metall" by adding a bit off silver (11, very usable in those days!) to a larger quantity of black before Humbrol invented 56.

 

On the other hand it is nice to have a pot/tin/bottle with already "mixed" paint straight from the manufacturer.

 

 

Did anybody elaborate on water based vs. solvent based yet?

[Bobby No Mac]

I returned to the hobby at the end of 2020 after a 20+ years' absence and experienced a similar problem to you @Mr-Revenge in terms of trying to find the required paints and minimise postage costs. I have ended up with a hodgepodge collection of different brands.

 

I've been very impressed with AK's 3rd Generation acrylics and would recommend using them with their own 3rd Generation thinner. https://www.scalemodelshop.co.uk/products/paints/ak-interactive-paints/ak-3rd-generation-acrylic/ has a good supply of the range (I've no affiliation, only recently ordered from them for the first time). I'd suggest getting one of the themed paint sets and see how they work for you. I'd avoid any of the sets with metallic colours because, bafflingly, they're from the Xtreme Metal range (enamels designed for airbrushing), ask me how I know!

[Web99]

Humbrol is now made by HGW in Manchester who also makes Coat D’Arms for those who still think it’s rubbish. For availability I usually buy direct from Humbrol or airfix’s website. You get cash back on top cash back too. 😁

[Troy Smith]

On 11/01/2022 at 11:09, Web99 said:

Humbrol is now made by HGW in Manchester who also makes Coat D’Arms for those who still think it’s rubbish.

Enamels or acrylics, or both?  

 

I had to look up Coat D'Arms

https://www.fauxhammer.com/reviews/coat-darms-paint-review-for-miniatures-wargames-models/

 

I know HMG make a load of model paint,  but they have a variety of different paints.   I know this because I phoned them up about paint, so this does not mean that the Humbrol will actually be better if the Hornby beancounters pick a cheap option.

 

Anyway, interesting to know,  it would be great if Humbrol actually went back to be a trustable brand....  and reformulate Humbrol 30 so it's actually an olive green, not the blinkin' blue green it's been since the early 70's...

[philbean]

Also.. if Humbrol has changed manufacturer again it just worsens the 'pot luck' situation of picking up a pot at a retailer and not knowing till you try to use it whether its good bad or ugly.

 

After a lifetime of Humbrol enamel usage I've given up now. Too many tins recently have been utter junk.

Tried a couple of their acrylic pots and they were awful too.

 

 

[Fred piket]

On 1/5/2022 at 11:11 AM, Seahawk said:

Afraid I haven't time at the mo to wade through all the posts for the most recent thread on Vallejo/MAP matches but I think it was in Feb 2020.

 

For the colours you enquire about. the best brains of Britmodeller came up with the following: (read Humbrol No/MAP name/Vallejo number/Vallejo name)

 

9

11  This is Humbrol silver.  Not sure what it's intended for on your kit.   Not a MAP paint.

24/Yellow/71.062 Medium Yellow

29/Dark Earth/70.921 English Uniform (or 70.873 Basic Color)

30/Dark Green/70.893 US Dark Green

33/Night/70.950 Black 

34/White/71.001 White

53/Aluminium/71.062 Aluminium is one of the best on the market, even for brush painters.

78/Grey Green (often called by modellers cockpit green)/71.126 IDF/IAF Green

61/104: I am sure Vallejo have about 25 shades of Flesh for you to choose from.

 

I'm surprised not to see MAP Sky, the normal underside colour for fighters during Battle of Britain period on your list, but the best Vallejo match for that is 70.885 Pastel Green

 

70. prefixes are for Model Color, 71. for Model Air, which are supposed to be prethinned for airbrash users.  As an exclusive brush painter I use both interchangeably and can't really tell a difference.

 

Sorry if this all comes over as a bit pedantic for a beginner but if you're going out to make a sizeable investment in buying a wadge of paints, you may as well get the right ones, not ones you'll want to replace as you learn more.

 

My local Antics has given up stocking Vallejo in-store (apparently people prefer other, coincidentally more expensive paints nowadays - and there are hundreds of Vallejos!) but they can get them delivered from the warehouse.

 

Hope this helps.

Hi, I'm also a brush painter and I think you are right. I think vallejo is a good paint, I hardly notice any difference between vallejo air and color. I use AK acrylic thinner on both of them. Works great