How low is too low? RAF Buccaneers

[Murph]

On 1/1/2022 at 12:58 PM, colin said:

There is also a clip somewhere showing American Intruders at low level and the next Bucc's flying below them

 

My experience flying with the Brits is that they would be low enough to terrain mask behind the shrubbery.

 

Regards,

Murph

[Wez]

On 19/01/2022 at 09:15, bentwaters81tfw said:

Bucc pilots would select 'gear up' on the runway. As soon as the a/c lifted and the pressure came off the WOW switches, retraction was instant and the a/c continued at that height. You can see it on the footage from Gib.

 

On 25/02/2022 at 15:29, chopper61 said:

What a fabulous clip. It reminded me of a day I spent with an old mate at an airshow back in the 80s at RAF Manston. He was an RAF senior mech at the time who worked on Buccaneers. Before the display he said to me he was really looking forward to the Buccs 'do their thing', expanding that he hoped they did their 'signature takeoff'. When I asked him what he mean't he just replied "wait and see". Well, they did and yes it was the wheels retract whilst on seemingly still charging up the runway with no nose up. I was amazed. He laughed at my expression of amazement and explained that they can do that due to ground effect being so strong. He went on to say they could even put the stick forward and they would bounce, not hit the deck. Whether that last bit was true but it is a great story. Happy days.

 

Mate of mine was a split brain (airframes/propulsion technician), on 237OCU, he told me that it was quite routine for some Bucc' pilots would select wheels up as they trundled down the runway and as they achieved flight speed and the weight came off of the WoW switches, the undercarriage would retract and those spectacular take off's would result.  Except on one occasion, there was a dip in the runway and the wheels became light enough for the WoW switches to operate before the aircraft had fully achieve flight speed with the aircraft settling back on its belly, blacking out the runway and requiring expensive repairs. 

 

Apparently, the routine practice of doing this was stopped (at least for a while, officially, of course, once a pilot signs the aircraft out they tend to do what they want - there's nobody looking over their shoulder).

[upnorth]

Always remember, the Buccaneer didn't have a refueling probe. It had a periscope.

[speedy]

There is a dit from Dave Southwood when he was a Sqn pilot and the over flight of Beirut (Op Pulsar). They flew under US helicopters and they complained. All relative, but it does paint am image

[Black Knight]

I dunno if this adds anything or it counts.

23 MU converted RN Buccs to RAF standard at RNAS Sydenham in Belfast [now Belfast City Airport]

The Buccs used to do a couple of test flights before delivery 

As the Buccs climbed out after take off they had to fly over a certain part of Belfast city. Where I use to live.

The Buccs were usually just above roof-top height. [house height, approx 20ft]  Sometimes they weren't even that high, they were just below chimney-pot level. On a few occasions they took off the chimney pots. Dunno if they hit the pots [probably not] or it was just the air buffeting them.

[Dean1700]

I gotta admin I love the Bucc and glad it saw great service in Kuwait in 91.

[Twobad]

I worked at BAe Brough for a number of years where they were made. In fact my first ever job there was helping out with issuing the final test schedules on the FIN1063 update.

 

I was working late one evening in the Avionic Systems office which was on the first floor. We'd just had a new site director appointed and a 12 Sqdn Buccaneer dropped in to say hello I suppose. The director's office was directly inline with the west end of the runway and quite close to it. This Buccaneer came in from the east/Humber Bridge end, and I just spotted him out of the side windows of the office as he dropped down for a low pass down the runway. He must've been aiming directly for the site director's office window because when he went past the end of our office all I could see was the top of the tail.

[John B (Sc)]

Yep, that sounds like the 'Shiny Twelve ' boys all right !   Not that the other Buccaneer squadrons were much different.

Buccaneer boys reckoned, with some justice, that they were special, even within the RAF. They still have a reunion every year, which I am told is apt to be an impressive and occasionally riotous occasion (but within the bounds of good taste of course)

.

I know a few ex-Buccaneer folk; they are indeed an exuberantly different breed, even today. 

[Rob de Bie]

All this great talk made me remember something that I always wondered about. In 1982, 1983 and maybe 1984 I went aircraft spotting at Laarbruch a number of times. I vividly remember that the departure end barrier was always lowered when a 15 or 16 sqn Buccaneer commenced it take off, but never for one of the 2 sqn Jags. The Buccaneers would fly over the departure end fence quite low, more or less along the glide path if the wind would have been from the other direction.  Hell, even the F-104s at my 'home' base of Volkel had climbed higher than that at the departure end! You could have photographed them nicely, except that was usually not tolerated there by the German police, so hardly anyone tried that (grrr). Back then my reasoning was that the Buccaneers simply had a longer take-off run than the Jag. But later I started to think otherwise: their altitude over the fence was more or less mission altitude, especially since the area west of the runway dipped down a bit. So they did not want to climb too high. Does anyone that served at Laarbruch remember whether it was the first or the second reason?

 

Rob

[John B (Sc)]

I rather doubt a Buccaneer would have a longer take-off run than a Jaguar, even heavily laden. Having seen both take off many times at my nearby airbase, while the Jaguar's wasn't quite the 'curvature of the earth' take-off some detractors claimed, it certainly wasn't sprightly with any stores at all fitted. 

 

And I do know of one well known instance when a four ship group of Buccaneers were 'bounced' as they took off at Lossiemouth.  The lead called to stay low and ducked right down to sea level, so the second pair simply retracted gear, didn't climb, just missed the hedge at the East end, rather startling the golfers and likewise went out across the bay with wake effect either side of the wingtips. The machines trying for the bounce just gave up, pulled up and applauded - you couldn't get behind a Bucc that low without going in the water.

 

So I'd go for Reason 2.

Edited March 22, 2022 by John B (Sc)