PK-401 Heinkel He115 - Finished!

[Rabbit Leader]

So sorry to hear about these issues Heather, that's a bit devastating however like most things in life hopefully recoverable. We all know how thick Matchbox kit transparencies can be, however if you take to them with wet n' dry and then the various grades of micro-mesh you will improve their clarity to a more acceptable level. There's quite a bit of work involved however you will end up with parts that fit your model and clear canopies to highlight your good work. Best to sleep on it, then decide what to do. 

Cheers and best of luck... Dave 

[JWM]

On 1/9/2022 at 7:36 PM, AdrianMF said:

If the Matchbox one frustrates you, take comfort in the fact that the FROG kit looks to be as rough as a hedgehog’s bottom!

That is true that both 1/72 He-115 kits boxed by Revell are, hmm what to say.. -  "not the best" ,  Maybe it is the high time for SH to scale down their 1/48 He 115 and make it in 1/72? I am sure it will found many buyers.  Moreover, I do not need any payment from them  for this biz-plan ! 

More seriously - maybe the shorter canopy is the right one? I do not know it, I do not have MAtchbox kit to check it.  Here is an interesting thread on He 115 with detailed some  drawings https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/forums/topic/108973-heinkel-he-115/ 

It looks that canopy end matches exactly the wing trailing edge. However, on some older drawings like that: 

it extends a bit the line of trailing edge to the aft. So maybe this is the problem of Matchbox kit? Perhaps the best solution is to make opening for canopy shorter  in the rear part?  I do not know how much effort it will need but maybe it is better solution then returning perhaps a proper canopy back to shop? 

Cheers

J-W

 

 

[JWM]

I have found the comparison of kits

http://www.olddogsplanes.com/115.htm

Looks like problem is in front side, but looks as very small difference trought...

Regards and I keep my fingers crossed!

J-W

 

[Heather Kay]

3 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Best to sleep on it, then decide what to do. 

I did. I have something approaching a plan. I’m not going to junk the entire project, but it may end up "sleeping" for a while - like my FrankenDornier project that ended up shelved for a year or more before I worked out how to finish it. Hopefully, the 'Einkel won’t be that long. 
 

32 minutes ago, JWM said:

More seriously - maybe the shorter canopy is the right one?

JW, thank you for those links, and your thoughts. I have come up with a plan. I’ll post more in a bit, when I have worked out if it’s viable.

[stevej60]

Great work so far Heather,I'm sure you'll find a solution to the canopy issue.

[Heather Kay]

5 minutes ago, stevej60 said:

I'm sure you'll find a solution to the canopy issue.

I hope so, Steve, I hope so.

 

 

Right, so, this plan. I’m not ready to button the fuselage up yet, as all that naughty PE needs painting - and I’ve still got to make up and install the nose interior. Plenty of masking tape does the job for now. The plan was to assess the fit of the kit transparencies, and see what could be done about the thickness and opacity of them. This is still a fall-back plan should the next round of malarkey not quite work out.

 

 

This, then, is the Falcon set of bits. They’ve not been tidied yet, but they’re good enough to see how they fit the kit - if they do. I decided it was worth at least trying them for size, even if it devalued the set for resale. I suspect many of us have part-sets of Falcon transparencies kicking about, as we only needed one canopy from the set they made. I know I’ve got another one stashed away, which was only bought for the FrankenDornier transparencies: the rest are of no use to a 1940 fanatic like me. Perhaps I should put both sets up for sale later, as I’m sure someone will want one of the other canopies for a build. Anyway, I digress… 

 

 

 

The Falcon nose glazing is sensibly split horizontally. That makes it simpler to make a mould, of course, but also allows for the bottom half to be moulded to make the B variant of the plane. That had some extra glazing just in front of the bomb bay. I don’t know if you can make it out here, because I’ve not committed to cutting it off yet. As you can see, although it’s not aligned properly, the nose parts do actually pretty much fit the kit. At this point, I have an option to leave the moulded styrene parts of the lower fuselage intact, and trim the vac-form to fit it. Alternatively, I could just hack carefully cut away the stepped part off the fuselage and substitute the slightly adapted vac-form. To my mind, at the moment, the latter course would be the tidier. It would, though cause some issues with attaching the glazed part. It might be very delicate, so some extra framing and bracing may be required to help out. Something more to ponder.

 

 

Now, to that greenhouse on top. You can see the problems. The shape of the fuselage cutout doesn’t match the vac-form, at either end. There’s also a mould flaw on the gunner's flip-up canopy - damage to the mould, I think - but I’m going to ignore it. Options: with the pilot's canopy a separate section, it would be possible to fit the windscreen (with a little work to reshape the area of fuselage it sits on) and have the hood slid back over the greenhouse. The chicken way out for the rear would be to carefully trim it out and have it posed open. Both these, of course, would helpfully expose the extra detailing inside, so there’s that. My feeling at the moment is to have the cockpit hood open, but think about rebuilding the rear compartment sides to better fit the shape of the vac-form. Even with the hood set open, the disparity in shapes might be obvious, so that area will need work either way.

 

So, that’s the current plan. I suspect quite a bit of filling and sanding is in my future. it's a good job this isn’t a short group build!
 

Ironically, the Eduard masking set is the only aftermarket thing I bought that actually fits the original kit! I hope some of it will still be helpful for masking the Falcon parts.

[Heather Kay]

I’ve been fiddling about a bit further, and I think there’s a way forward.

 

 

The gunner's canopy was cut away, as well as dividing the hood from the windscreen. After a bit of fettling, here’s the main greenhouse taped in place with the gunner's wotsit propped open. I think that works.

 

 

To give some idea of gaps, here’s the rear compartment with the lid down. My word, that’s a gap worthy of minding on the London Underground! Obviously, in this position, the gap is utterly intolerable. With the lid open, though, the problem is less obvious. In either case, I think I will spend a bit of time filling in the space with styrene strip, sheet, filler, whatever. 
 

The front end will need similar treatment so the windscreen sits properly. Then there’s the whole nose thing, but I’ll worry about that another time. A lot of what’s clear at the moment is actually fuselage, so I can hide supports and areas for gluing things to fairly easily.

 

Definitely feeling more positive about this critter now.

[Ned]

Good to see you working towards a solution. That's a heck of a lot of glass though. On a sunny day it must've been like climbing into an oven.

[Rabbit Leader]

5 hours ago, Ned said:

. That's a heck of a lot of glass though. On a sunny day it must've been like climbing into an oven.

 

Sun??? we are talking Northern Europe aren’t we! 

That’s a great idea Heather and the size difference between the Matchbox and Clear Canopy designed Frog/Revell canopy is quite alarming. You could almost get away with just leaving the rear canopy open, however bringing that gap will certainly be the best option. Nice recovery. 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Heather Kay]

On 16/01/2022 at 22:41, Rabbit Leader said:

Sun??? we are talking Northern Europe aren’t we!

Indeed, but remember at those latitudes the sun doesn’t dip below the horizon for much of the summer.

 

Day job stuff is taking the fore during the week, but the noggin has been beavering away to work out how to successfully close that gap in the rear cockpit.

[TonyW]

Could you curve a strip of clear plastic to follow the U shape of the canopy and add another framed section to the glazing?

 

If the rear of the fuselage opening is correctly lined up with the wing root and the front likewise, the glazing provided can't be long enough. A strip added, and possibly lost under an opened pilots opening, might get you out of trouble.

[Heather Kay]

31 minutes ago, TonyW said:

the glazing provided can't be long enough

I don’t know where the error lies. Falcon is normally known for accuracy, but it might be short - without a good plan I can’t tell. The main greenhouse is about right as far as I can see.
 

My plan is to "plug" the rear of the back cockpit to make the hole smaller, and pose the flip-up canopy open. I think there’s a good deal of compromise I’m going to have to accept with this model.

[Heather Kay]

I’m afraid the mojo has not been with me this week. I had mentally laid plans to crack on with this build over the weekend, but Saturday came and went without me even looking at the workbench.

 

Sunday arrived, so I thought it was time to force things into life.

 

 

The problem I’m trying to solve is how to fill the gap at the rear of the aft cockpit. While I could simply plug the hole and sand it to shape, that would essentially also plug the detailed cockpit. What I needed was to make some thin styrene more or less the right shape so it looked like part of the plane and not a botched filler job. You can probably see where this is going.

 

 

What I needed to do was create a piece of styrene sheet the same, or nearly the same, shape as the rear fuselage which could be grafted into the space but leaving the void below. Now, I understand the principles of plunge or crash moulding, and I’ve played with it before, and I felt the technique was the right solution for this problem. The only thing is I’ve only played with the technique before, and not tried it in earnest.

 

There followed a short spell of experimenting, with how to grip the material without risking third degree burns, what source of heat, and so on. I first chose material too thick, reasoning that pulling it down over the fuselage would thin it. Wrong. Thinner material was chosen, and it more or less worked. The version in the photo was the best of the first batch, but I see I really need to be able to pull the soft material much further down the fuselage sides. Some more playing about will ensue.

[GREG DESTEC]

Ingenious problem solving Heather👍

 

I hope it all pans out for you.

 

Cheers Greg

[Heather Kay]

1 hour ago, GREG DESTEC said:

I hope it all pans out for you.

I think it will. I need to refine the technique and the idea.

 

 

My first iteration sort of proves the idea works. However, I didn’t think it through. Rather than square off that diagonal corner on the fuselage, I tried to get the new part to fit it instead. Silly.

 

I think a few more parts need to be made to allow for wastage.

[Rob S]

2 hours ago, Heather Kay said:

I’m afraid the mojo has not been with me this week. I had mentally laid plans to crack on with this build over the weekend, but Saturday came and went without me even looking at the workbench.

 

Sunday arrived, so I thought it was time to force things into life.

 

 

The problem I’m trying to solve is how to fill the gap at the rear of the aft cockpit. While I could simply plug the hole and sand it to shape, that would essentially also plug the detailed cockpit. What I needed was to make some thin styrene more or less the right shape so it looked like part of the plane and not a botched filler job. You can probably see where this is going.

 

 

What I needed to do was create a piece of styrene sheet the same, or nearly the same, shape as the rear fuselage which could be grafted into the space but leaving the void below. Now, I understand the principles of plunge or crash moulding, and I’ve played with it before, and I felt the technique was the right solution for this problem. The only thing is I’ve only played with the technique before, and not tried it in earnest.

 

There followed a short spell of experimenting, with how to grip the material without risking third degree burns, what source of heat, and so on. I first chose material too thick, reasoning that pulling it down over the fuselage would thin it. Wrong. Thinner material was chosen, and it more or less worked. The version in the photo was the best of the first batch, but I see I really need to be able to pull the soft material much further down the fuselage sides. Some more playing about will ensue.

 

Hello Heather : 

 

Really nice work and thanks for bringing the Frog and Matchbox differences to our attention. 

 

Just wondering though if by using the actual kit fuselage you are risking damage to it?  

 

Whenever I’ve done something like that (admittedly years ago) I took a mould of the relevant kit part and ran off a couple of copies using them as the “plug” part of the process. 

 

Hope this helps. 

 

[Heather Kay]

36 minutes ago, Rob S said:

Just wondering though if by using the actual kit fuselage you are risking damage to it?

A timely warning, but it’s nothing to worry about here happily. The plastic is thick and tough, and the heated sheet is very soft when I pull it over the fuselage.

 

 

With the vac-form clear parts roughly taped into position, the space I need to fill is a bit clearer. By chopping out the large diagonal I won’t need as much care in trimming the patch replacement. The small triangular fillet can be added once I’m happy with the overall fit.

 

So, I need to rejoin the fuselage halves and set to making a few more misshapen lumps of wasted plastic!

[Heather Kay]

I have committed to adhesive now. I’m not sure all the mucking about with heat forming was worth the effort. The simple shape I needed could have been formed by just rolling styrene strip to the curve I needed.

 

Anyway, something has been done. I’ll let the glue cure and assess the mess. There will still be filler required, and some mild reinforcement behind the Matchbox-to-styrene join. Any serious filling and reshaping will have to wait until the fuselage halves are joined together.

 

Now my mojo has bimbled off again. Ho hum.

[TonyW]

Nearly there.

Experimentation is good. There's a lot to be learned from the ideas that didn't work. They may well sort out a different problem at a later date. Having a break from the problem helps me a lot. I sometimes come back to see the solution staring me in the face. 

[Heather Kay]

I have to admit I’m feeling a bit ambivalent about this whole build at the moment. Some of that is a general malaise that affects me more often than I’d like - I call it Muttley, in a tip of the hat to Churchill's "black dog". Some is I’m unhappy with the way the aftermarket bits have made this whole shooting match so much harder than it needed to be.

 

 

After slapping some RLM02 about the interior that’s fitted so far, and really butchering the PE instrument panel (designed for a fatter fuselage than I have), I had some thinks about the nose glazing. I thought I was building a C variant, but it seems they didn’t come into service until 1941. That means I’m after building something that resembles a B variant. Luckily, the Falcon glazing covers both variants, achieved by some careful excision here and there. The Bs, apparently, had a glazed belly panel below the cockpit and in front of the bomb bay. Comparing the vac-form parts, it seemed to my jaundiced eye the simplest way to fit the schnozz was to do some serious rhinoplasty to the Matchbox plastic.

 

 

Like this, in fact. Gawd! What have I done? 

 

I'm sure it’ll be alright in the end.

 

 

This is Billy-puss. He’s been "helping" me type up this post, in the way only cats can. He wanted to say "hi". 

 

[TonyW]

My sisters cat lays across the keyboard of her computer when it feels the need for attention. Being a cross between a panther and a lump of granite, my sister does as she is told. Cats have pretty much got things sussed.

 

 

[Heather Kay]

Just now, TonyW said:

Cats have pretty much got things sussed.

Indeed. Billy is a 6kg lump of fluff. You know when he’s decided it’s lap and grooming time. He's a rescue cat, from Cats Protection. He chose us in May 2016, after we bade farewell to the previous holder of our affections, Sophie. She was nearly 20 when she left us.

[JOCKNEY]

Hi Heather

Nice to meet Billy, I do  hope he gets a mention in the credits when you successfully tame this misbehaving He-115 of yours.

Cheers Pat

[AaCee26]

On 1/9/2022 at 1:12 PM, Heather Kay said:

Now, a little model kit archaeology reveals that Revell acquired both the Matchbox and Frog He115 kits. Both were rebranded as Revell, and sold until fairly recently. When I ordered the Brengun PE, it simply stated "for the Revell kit". It does, however, appear the Revell kit it’s for is actually the Frog moulding, which I believe is a bit tubbier round the fuselage. Consequently, the PE is wider than the Matchbox fuselage.

It looks like Revell has sold the Matchbox one as He 115 or He 115B/C and original Frog as He 115 or He 115C-1. So only B/C or C-1 are clear indications of a certain kit...

 

Interesting built! I'm planning to do the Matchvell one day...

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

[Heather Kay]

11 hours ago, AaCee26 said:

Interesting built! I'm planning to do the Matchvell one day...

If I were starting again, I think I’d just build straight from the box. I’ve made life far too difficult by trying to upgrade using aftermarket parts. But then, we are modellers, aren’t we? It’s what we do for fun. Well, mostly fun! 
 

Yesterday afternoon I joined the fuselage halves and filled the sinkholes and generally tidied things up. I didn’t record those stages, but let’s just say the two fuselage parts mate pretty well, with only a tiny bit of misalignment that was dealt with by a smear of filler and some sanding. So, where do things sit this morning?

 

 

Here's the fuselage, upside down. You can see the sink holes, which aren’t all that bad frankly. The Lesney demon engraver made a meal of two fuselage joints, and marking out the bomb bay doors. I’ve not bothered attempting to fill the trenches, though I may still on the rear one. The front one was dealt with when I chopped off the nose. Now the glue has hardened, I carefully ran a scriber along the centreline of the bomb doors.

 

 

Here is how the botch patch for the observer's cockpit has turned out. I’ve just fitted the triangular fillets, which I will let harden before refining things. That trench does stick out a bit, though. I have a plan.

 

 

This model is quite restrained as far as panel lines are concerned. As was the preference for Matchbox, some panels were engraved, others raised. As I was filling a couple of minor sink holes on the wings, I decided it wouldn’t hurt to scribe the raised lines. That’s why it looks so messy. I need to give these parts a good wash under the kitchen tap to lose the dust everywhere.

 

 

I think I mentioned I had a cutaway drawing of the He115. It’s reproduced in a large hardback book, and of course the interesting parts are lost in the binding. Still, it’s been helpful in a few places.

 

Yesterday I decided I was trying to build a 115B series plane. Well, this profile is the plane I am aiming for, and it’s apparently a C-1. One of my references is mistaken, then. Ah well. I want to reproduce the scabby temporary black distemper, and I also found a photo of a plane from the same unit showing exactly the same scheme, so I suspect my model will be a representative hybrid He115 of some shape or other. In for one compromise, in for all of the compromises!