Vulcan XM597 black buck raid

[Whitewolf]

1 hour ago, magman2 said:

I hope these help 

 

Net photos

Interesting top pic taken at Rio whilst XM597 was on the ground there.

[Whitewolf]

On 30/12/2021 at 16:02, aerotechi said:

I don’t know what the blade antenna is but it won’t be inertia navigation as INS is a product of gyros and air speed etc. 
It was robbed out of I think a VC10 and just bolted to the floor around the pilots ladder. I’ll see if I can find anything on additional antenna. 

Yes, they were 'borrowed' from BA aircraft.

[Selwyn]

6 hours ago, CT7567 said:

I'm by no means an expert on this subject, but I had understood the AGM-45 pylons used on the Black Buck Vulcans were actually borrowed from USAF F-105G "Wild Weasels." Late in their service life they had adopted unique "cranked" dual rail pylons to carry paired Shrikes on a single wing hardpoint.  Part of the reason I remember this is that the vintage C-Scale "Black Buck" conversion set includes one of the pylons in white metal (along with a pair of Shrikes).  My understanding is that the dual AGM-45 mount was one one side, while an ALQ-101 pod was on the other.

 

 

You are getting confused. The pylons were locally made. The shrike launchers that fitted to the pylons and the missiles came from the US.

 

Selwyn

[elanman]

Confirm the pylons were locally made at Waddington with the missiles and launchers coming from the US, along with a tall chap in cowboy hat, shirt and boots who stepped off the Herc with a cheery ‘hi y’all, ah’m from the Hughes’s corporation’. We couldn’t take him off base so we did our best to look after him on base 😀.

[JohnT]

5 minutes ago, elanman said:

Confirm the pylons were locally made at Waddington with the missiles and launchers coming from the US, along with a tall chap in cowboy hat, shirt and boots who stepped off the Herc with a cheery ‘hi y’all, ah’m from the Hughes’s corporation’. We couldn’t take him off base so we did our best to look after him on base 😀.

Ah, an “I was never here” scenario. Sometimes I think there is a really good movie  to be made about 1982

[elanman]

1 minute ago, JohnT said:

Ah, an “I was never here” scenario. Sometimes I think there is a really good movie  to be made about 1982

There is, but no one would ever believe it, too far fetched 😉

[71chally]

On 1/15/2022 at 11:04 AM, Harry Lime said:

 

The 'deep adaptor' is a myth that has sprung up from mis-interpretation of a photo. The photo actually shows the ALQ-101 pod unattached to anything and with the undercarriage door creating the illusion of it being attached to a two foot deep pylon!

 

Mark.

Sorry for the late return to this, but this is what I meant about the deeper ALQ pylon. The periscope view might be squashing the image a bit though.

 

[Markh-75]

Out of interest, the Vulcan XM597 now resides at Scotlands Museum of Flight at East Fortune airfield near North Berwick. She's not in the best of fettle due to weather over the years though. There was talk of a hangar being built for her initially to restore and then to house but I was there last September and she's still outside.

[Adam Poultney]

14 minutes ago, Markh-75 said:

Out of interest, the Vulcan XM597 now resides at Scotlands Museum of Flight at East Fortune airfield near North Berwick. She's not in the best of fettle due to weather over the years though. There was talk of a hangar being built for her initially to restore and then to house but I was there last September and she's still outside.

hangar was delayed because of planning permission issues or something. Heard it's to do with some trees... 

Should really take the Concorde outside and put the Vulcan and Comet inside until the new hangar can be built. A few years outside won't kill the Concorde which has been inside since it was retired, but a few more years outside could kill the Vulcan or Comet

[JohnT]

25 minutes ago, Markh-75 said:

Out of interest, the Vulcan XM597 now resides at Scotlands Museum of Flight at East Fortune airfield near North Berwick. She's not in the best of fettle due to weather over the years though. There was talk of a hangar being built for her initially to restore and then to house but I was there last September and she's still outside.

 

9 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said:

hangar was delayed because of planning permission issues or something. Heard it's to do with some trees... 

Should really take the Concorde outside and put the Vulcan and Comet inside until the new hangar can be built. A few years outside won't kill the Concorde which has been inside since it was retired, but a few more years outside could kill the Vulcan or Comet

 

East Lothian Council refused planning permission as there were objections to fairly significant tree felling operations required.  Full story here

 

https://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/18209625.museum-flight-visitor-centre-plan-turned-tree-loss/

 

I suspect the whole thing was not well thought out but the concern is the state of the significant airframes left outside.

 

I recall there was an appeal against refusal but not sure if that has been decided yet - it was delayed.

 

The issue was not the new building but getting a route for the airframes to it as they were becoming fragile to move !

[Markh-75]

Absolutely correct; why not look after the existing exhibits, get them protected at least? can't see them do it because Concorde is one of their main events! I remember asking about why they can't have a hangar for it inside the grounds; there is plenty of space but its because East fortune is now a 'historical site'. I had hoped that more recognition could be gained via Corgi who have made XM597 their latest diecast c/w Shrike missiles underwing.

 

[JohnT]

4 minutes ago, Markh-75 said:

Absolutely correct; why not look after the existing exhibits, get them protected at least? can't see them do it because Concorde is one of their main events! I remember asking about why they can't have a hangar for it inside the grounds; there is plenty of space but its because East fortune is now a 'historical site'. I had hoped that more recognition could be gained via Corgi who have made XM597 their latest diecast c/w Shrike missiles underwing.

 

would have thought they could have moved Concorde.  After all they hacked the wings off her once before to move it !!  

[Markh-75]

Thanks for the Link JohnT.👍

 

[John B (Sc)]

Aren't there quite a number of Vulcans preserved around the country already?  I can see the arguments against overdoing the number of Vulcan preservations, impressive as they are -  although, yes, this one did at least fly a very long distance and cause some major worry.

 

That said, the 'Museum of Flight' is disappointing and annoying. Really difficult to get to by air - which given it is (a) on an airfield and (b) a Museum of Flight, is frustrating.   I think John T is right; it probably was not well thought out at the start.  

Edited March 9, 2022 by John B (Sc)

[Adam Poultney]

11 minutes ago, John B (Sc) said:

Aren't there quite a number of Vulcans preserved around the country already?  I can see the arguments against overdoing the number of Vulcan preservations, impressive as they are -  although, yes, this one did at least fly a very long distance and cause some major worry.

 

That said, the 'Museum of Flight' is disappointing and annoying. Really difficult to get to by air - which given it is (a) on an airfield and (b) a Museum of Flight, is frustrating.   I think John T is right; it probably was not well thought out at the start.  

Oh yes there are lots but XM597, as one of the two to use weapons in anger during the Falkands War, is of a special significance. The Comet as a rare example of the first jet airliner is also significant. The Concorde has only one fewer preserved example worldwide than the Vulcan, but many more are inside. There are only a handful of Comets left so I would suggest that is more worthy of the hangar space too. Ideally all go inside, and that may actually be realistic if the new hangar is built but they need the comet and vulcan to still be in one peice by then...

[John B (Sc)]

Which variety of Comet is it?  I have been to the Museum, but a  long time ago ! 

 

I take your point about the 'significance' of that airframe. Adam.  As an engineer I've never been especially interested in the specific history of a piece of inanimate kit, though keeping an example of the design is worthwhile.  I will confess that I have long preferred the looks, style and performance of the Victor rather  than the Vulcan, which I feel gets a lot of attention due to its unusually dramatic shape. (And airshow demonstrations of why deltas are rubbish at going round corners! ) 

I also felt at the time the 'Black Buck' missions were launched as much for RAF pride & PR as for probable operational effect. In terms of results for effort expended they were absurdly costly - a Navy view I admit.  Technically the really major challenge was the organisation of the multiple refuelling daisy chain.  (Again the Victor!) 

 

Very little has ever been said about the Nimrod sorties down off the coast of Argentina - relatively low level, within fighter range -  which really took some nerve -  or the early Victor(?) sortie all the way down to  South Georgia.  

 

Ah well, the glorious days when we had an Air Force, and a Navy plus fixed wing FAA ! 

[JohnT]

3 hours ago, John B (Sc) said:

 

 

That said, the 'Museum of Flight' is disappointing and annoying. Really difficult to get to by air - which given it is (a) on an airfield and (b) a Museum of Flight, is frustrating.   I think John T is right; it probably was not well thought out at the start.  

 

From what I heard its suffered from changing "visions" too.  Its a protected site as its about the only WW2 fighter airfield that's fairly period as as was back in the day and should be retained for that reason alone.  The new hanger was going into another site a short distance away so the new would not impact on the old.  The problem seems to have been the only way (supposedly) to get the big airframes that are outside to the new hanger once built was through the belt of trees.

 

At one stage a few decades ago the then management were not at all keen on more military types arriving and wanted to turn the site into a museum of civil types which is a bit daft on a WW2 fighter station but hey ho.  Its run by the National museums of Scotland and they are museum orientated, not aviation minded.  Shows when they have had a large photo of Musashi or Yamato on display with the caption HMS Warspite   I've mentioned it twice but to no result.

Edited March 9, 2022 by JohnT
shpellun mistakes and typos

[John B (Sc)]

1 hour ago, JohnT said:

Shows when they have had a large photo of Musashi or Yamato on display with the caption HMS Warspite   I've mentioned it twice but to no result.

  Strewth - that's very poor for any Museum.  I am no expert on naval vessels but I rather doubt it is easy to confuse Yamato with Warspite (though it's a long time since I built a model of her). Musashi I don't know at all.

 

As you say, John, as an ex-fighter station you'd think there is an obvious 'slant' to work from.

 

On the civil types issue - a year or two back I might have been able to properly test out what their views were on that. I was flying North, VFR from Yorkshire, ahead of an approaching set of fronts coming up behind me and was held back by an unexpected bank of low cloud and murk lingering over the North bank of the Forth.  I didn't fancy crossing the Firth until that cleared, so orbited near East Fortune while debating alternates, as you do.  I did wonder what the response would be if I made a precautionary landing there.   I have landed there before, quite a few years back for an air day.  I reckoned landing would no problem . but getting permission to take off again might be more challenging.  The admin mindset.  Fortunately, things cleared enough so the option wasn't needed. 

 

John B

[Whitewolf]

On 15/01/2022 at 12:30, elanman said:

There is, but no one would ever believe it, too far fetched 😉

Yes, people wouldn't believe that in order to bomb port Stanley airfield with a Vulcan, we had to go and buy the conventional bomb racks back from a scrap merchant.......

[JohnT]

36 minutes ago, John B (Sc) said:

  Strewth - that's very poor for any Museum.  I am no expert on naval vessels but I rather doubt it is easy to confuse Yamato with Warspite (though it's a long time since I built a model of her). Musashi I don't know at all.

 

 

John B

 

Yamato amd Musashi are sisters and to an untrained eye like mine I couldn't easily tell them apart.  Bit like Bismark and Tirpitz I think but no doubt our ship modelling colleagues and friends are doing a  at that right now   I can however tell the difference between a Lancaster and a Halifax. 

 

31 minutes ago, Whitewolf said:

Yes, people wouldn't believe that in order to bomb port Stanley airfield with a Vulcan, we had to go and buy the conventional bomb racks back from a scrap merchant.......

 

I would - I read that some of the in flight refueling system parts were located while being used as an ash tray in the mess too - or is that just a story

[John B (Sc)]

It certainly was the case that some parts were retrieved from museums , including I think in the States. Parts used as ashtrays - quite believable, knowing the military mind!

 

(One of the best examples of that was the fairly recent discovery that one of the weapons displayed at RAF Scampton front gate was still filled with explosive. No detonator, of course...  Either Tallboy or a Grand Slam ?)

 

JohnT - I couldn't tell Musashi and Yamato apart either. But Warspite is notably different in overall appearance and 'style'.  It is at least as obvious at a glance as the difference  between Lancaster & Halifax - good example !

[meindert]

completed the old Airfix 1/72 kit for the Vulcan XM597 used during the Falklands War.

 

June 2, 2022 exact 40 years ago the Black Buck mission "6" to the Falklands was flown.  

 

this is my model set in "the sky en route"

 

( Also did in parallel a model for an early Vulcan B.2, XM570 of Royal Air Force no.27 squadron as based at Scampton in 1962 ). 

 

More details on my website (see footer)

 

Meindert

Edited June 1, 2022 by meindert