1/18 Curtiss P40C

[Bandsaw Steve]

Awesome! So much skill and determination on display along with heaps of new and useful ideas. 
 

Top thread this one! 👍👍👍👍

[Bandsaw Steve]

Awesome! So much skill and determination on display along with heaps of new and useful ideas. 
 

Top thread this one! 👍👍👍👍

[Pete in Lincs]

Great stuff, and good to see another one of your builds in progress.

I've just started one in Sci Fi using a wooden fuselage former and plastic card skinning.

I do like the P-40 and admire the bravery of pilots who had to fly them against better Aircraft.

[airscale]

thanks chaps

 

 

It is like Christmas morning here in the airscale house..

 

my giant PE sets turned up, perfect as always from PPD

 

 

a walk around..

 

left to right - gun sides, cockpit floor, below that main gear door inners

 

 

 

lower canopy, canopy retraction mechanism & wheel, rear cooler meshes, below all that main gear roof parts..

 

 

 

cockpit parts, rudder pedals, cowl flaps, fuselage cockpit bulkhead formers

 

 

instrument panel, throttle quadrant, tailwheel door inner

 

 

flap ribs..

 

 

cockpit parts, belly tank / bomb shackle, fuselage hatch

 

 

 

..rudder mass balances, wheel parts, bulkhead 5 backing plate

 

 

fin spar, rear canopy skins, bulkhead 5 face plate and in the middle of that cockpit parts

 

 

..chin radiator / cooler meshes

 

 

seat parts..

 

 

 

..very happy with how they turned out, just need to remember what they all are now

 

 

TTFN
Peter

[Pete in Lincs]

Amazing detail and beautiful to boot!

[Bandsaw Steve]

I’ve just re-read this thread and have picked up a bunch of pointers I missed on my first rushed perusal. They say that the best way to learn is to study the masters! 🤔

[GlueDad]

Master craftsmanship - this is scale modelling in a completely different league.

[Biggles87]

Just had a catch-up and it’s really fascinating to watch the magic happening.

 

John

[airscale]

evening folks & thanks for stopping by with some encouragement

 

so, I was away for a bit so not too much bench time, but I did get the lower cowl fairing on after adding the PE radiator parts inside first..

 

rear...

 

 

..front..

 

 

..I have a 3D printed part to sit in front of the lower intake - shaping it properly with all the fillets & fairings is well beyond me, but this will serve the purpose of having a hard basis part with which to work, shape & skin...

 

..should be here tomorrow..

 

 

and how the airframe looks..

 

 

 

..started on some of the internals - this is the control column and rods - lots of fabricated bits from drawings - nearly got caught out with the lower mount which is two rods one above the other on early models, but as can be seen in Denzil's pic above is canted on later models - I built the canted one from drawings before realising..

 

the grip was made from square brass rod, worked with a dremel & files..

 

..it all needs priming & finessing and proper construction before it's finished..

 

 

 

..on to the floor - this is where PE can really help - I built a jig to hold the floor in the aerofoil shape, but did not include any dihedral as its too hard to do if I use PE..

 

The centre rib is a laminate of just the bit you can see, with stubs of fuse wire for bolts..

 

this is the main floor PE with laminate parts for the central rivet strips and the wing fuel gauges, the areas clear of rivets in the centre are left as location markers for the rubbing plates..

 

 

primed, painted and with the rubbing boards and a couple of pipe unions added..

 

 

 

..I love doing cockpits so will be here a while

 

TTFN

Peter

[Pastor Rich]

Love?  What's not to love here?!!

 

Simply brilliant, Peter!!!

[Sabrejet]

Lovely work! Any likelihood of doing something jet-powered one day?

[MarkSH]

Brilliant work to see unfold!  

[Pete in Lincs]

20 hours ago, airscale said:

stubs of fuse wire for bolts

Lovely idea. I'll probably steal that one. Thanks.

Beautiful centre section and control column/rods etc

[k5054nz]

That upper wing/cockpit floor...🤯

[Aerofix]

I've never seen anything quite like this, astounding!

[airscale]

evening chaps & thank you

 

On 1/20/2022 at 12:15 PM, Sabrejet said:

Lovely work! Any likelihood of doing something jet-powered one day?

 

 

Hi Sabrejet - possibly - I love NMF so there are lots of possibilities. Before I restarted the Firefly, I looked at a Gloster Meteor because I had a Hawker Fury a Griffon Spit and I thought the next logical lineage was an early jet, but it wouldn't fit in my display cabinet so I left it..

 

tempting though

 

I designed a kit of PE parts, including those to make the early rounded back seat from layers..

 

I had choices with the pressed nature of the parts - I could have gone half etch and tried to emboss them, or I could have made holes and raised areas to represent the strengthening ribs.. I went with slots & ribs..

 

 

..the parts were assembled, the bit at an angle at the base of the seat didn't fit so I reworked it..

 

 

 

..then added a rim of fuse wire around the edge..

 

 

 

..I made up some belts from lead rolled really thin - the hardware is scaled up from a new range of airscale seatbelts coming in late Feb..

 

I was doing the shoulder belts when I found out they were only introduced in 1942 and the A/C I am doing is pre-war I think..

 

 

..will look something like this..

 

 

..then made up the hydraulic hand pump which is mounted on the floor..

 

 

..and painted & assembled the bits to date..

 

 

 

 

 

 

..prolly start on the sidewalls next..

 

TTFN

Peter

[k5054nz]

Absolutely stunning work, Peter!!

[Roger Holden]

Stunning model engineering, as usual....

 

Note that the Duxford plane is a 'warbird' scheme. Only the first 10 P-40s delivered to the Air Corps (original P-40-CU model) had the NMF scheme, before the switch to olive drab. No P-40C was ever delivered in NMF, but the Duxford plane is marked as a P-40-CU, as they wanted a change from its previous OD colour scheme.  Depends whether you want to build an accurate historic model, or a copy of the Duxford 'warbird'....

[airscale]

10 hours ago, Roger Holden said:

Stunning model engineering, as usual....

 

Note that the Duxford plane is a 'warbird' scheme. Only the first 10 P-40s delivered to the Air Corps (original P-40-CU model) had the NMF scheme, before the switch to olive drab. No P-40C was ever delivered in NMF, but the Duxford plane is marked as a P-40-CU, as they wanted a change from its previous OD colour scheme.  Depends whether you want to build an accurate historic model, or a copy of the Duxford 'warbird'....

 

 

Many thanks Roger - that is really helpful

 

I wasn't going to do the Duxford bird as I haven't seen a picture of the original period scheme (if it exists), I was going to do this one, which while i think it may be colourised, I think is period NMF. I juts don't know what model or unit this is so will try and build what I see

 

 

if anyone recognises it or knows what the '11 MD' mark on the tail may indicate, please chime in

 

Peter

[Marklo]

Fantastic work as usual. Can’t believe I nearly missed this. Will follow along with interest.

[Roger Holden]

1 hour ago, airscale said:

 

 

I wasn't going to do the Duxford bird as I haven't seen a picture of the original period scheme (if it exists), I was going to do this one, which while i think it may be colourised, I think is period NMF. I juts don't know what model or unit this is so will try and build what I see

 

The Duxford plane is wearing markings of the 10th Airbase Squadron at Chanute Field, Illinois. Haven't seen that particular aircraft, but have seen others (YP-37, O-52, YFM-1), wearing near-identical markings, so it seems correct. Think they sent new types there for evaluation before delivery to squadrons.

 

Don't know the ID of the P-40 in your photo, although it must be an early plane. @Dana Bell is the early P-40 expert and sometimes posts here, so I'm sure he could advise.

[Dana Bell]

Hi Peter,

 

I hadn't noticed this thread until Roger tagged me - I'm in awe of your build, a truly wonderful work of the engineering arts!

 

I'm sorry to say that MD-11 won't work for you - it's the XP-40, the Allison-engined P-36, easily recognized by the tail wheel doors.  The MD designator was used by the Materiel Division at Wright Field.

 

Duxford's beautiful restroration does show a P-40C in the markings of an un-suffixed P-40.  Photos of the original aircraft have been misidentified since the mid-1960s, when the aircraft was described as a P-40C in a magazine article.  The aircraft was assigned to the 10th Air Base Squadron at Chanute.  The unit aircraft were used for mechanics' ground instruction, so it's not certain 10AB-160 ever flew with those markings.

 

Keep up the good work - I look forward to seeing how this one turns out!

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

[k5054nz]

On 1/23/2022 at 2:11 PM, Roger Holden said:

the Duxford plane is marked as a P-40-CU, as they wanted a change from its previous OD colour scheme

I think you're a little confused, Roger - TFC had an OD-painted P-40B (41-13297), it went to the Collings Foundation in the US in May 2014 and (I believe) that same month was replaced the NMF P-40C/Tomahawk IIb 41-13357. Totally different aircraft. 👍

[Pastor Rich]

Peter,

 

According to research done by Dana Bell published in his book, "Air Force Colors Vol. I 1926-1942" (Squadron/Signal Publications), on page 28,

 

"Unpainted tactical aircraft would not be accepted from manufacturers until 1937 and Technical Orders for aircraft in service were not changed until March 1938."

 

"Fabric covered aircraft acting in a tactical role, or fabric covered portions of metal aircraft, were to be doped aluminium, to achieve uniformity with metal aircraft.  Older metal types without special coatings were inspected regularly for tell-tale signs of corrosion, and many were simply painted with aluminium paint.  Anti-glare panels ahead of cockpits and inside engine nacelles were commonly painted Flat Bronze Green 9, rather than flat black, until August 1942, when a new color -- Dull Dark Green -- was introduced."

 

I JUST found Dana's comments above!  Hello, Dana!!

 

There is no way I can improve on his observations as this is his speciality.  As is shared on page 46 of his book (above), "MD" denoted "Materiel Division".

 

 

 

The opening photo to your build of Duxford's P-40 is in the same markings as that of the top photo of page 47 from Dana's book (above) captioned, "One of the few early natural metal P-40s was assigned to the Air Corps Technical School's 10th Air Base Squadron.  This may be the fifth production airframe, 39-160.  (via Cavanagh)"  Some items of note, the tail wheel is spun around suggesting it was pushed into a parking space.  At least one photographer is taking a picture of this ship (seen just below the nose).  I'd bet this was taken during an open house not long after arrival to the field?  A recent arrival perhaps or photographed while on tour?  The photo (below) of G-CIIO clearly shows guns mounted in the cowling with sights before the windscreen.  160 10AB (above) has no post sights and doesn't look like it has guns installed.  The fairings are there but not the guns I'd say -- especially given no gun sight installed in the cockpit.  The dorsal radio antenna insulator is in a different location (above) than that of G-CIIO (below).  G-CIIO also has rack for external fuel tank while hard to see (above) it looks like 39-160 does not.  I've not done an exhaustive search for photos of 160 but  doubt you'll find many NMF Tomahawks out there and even fewer photos of them.  Note too the reflectivity of the elevator trim opposed to the lack thereof of the elevator.  Metal trim -v- aluminium doped, cloth covered elevator.  Rudder mass balance tab is painted white. 

 

According to Joe Baughter at "http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1938.html", "39-160 was assigned to NACA Langley Memorial Aeronautical Laboratory, Virginia Sep 3, 1940 to Dec 230, 1940. To CL-26 at Luke".  Perhaps a time after this photo was taken?

 

Adding more detail as I find it...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_Division,_Air_Training_Command

 

 

 

Cheers!

Edited January 25, 2022 by Pastor Rich

[airscale]

evening all

 

thanks for stopping by

 

On 1/23/2022 at 4:49 PM, Dana Bell said:

Hi Peter,

 

I hadn't noticed this thread until Roger tagged me - I'm in awe of your build, a truly wonderful work of the engineering arts!

 

I'm sorry to say that MD-11 won't work for you - it's the XP-40, the Allison-engined P-36, easily recognized by the tail wheel doors.  The MD designator was used by the Materiel Division at Wright Field.

 

Duxford's beautiful restroration does show a P-40C in the markings of an un-suffixed P-40.  Photos of the original aircraft have been misidentified since the mid-1960s, when the aircraft was described as a P-40C in a magazine article.  The aircraft was assigned to the 10th Air Base Squadron at Chanute.  The unit aircraft were used for mechanics' ground instruction, so it's not certain 10AB-160 ever flew with those markings.

 

Keep up the good work - I look forward to seeing how this one turns out!

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

 

Dana - thank you so much for posting that - supremely useful info and saved me an embarassing finish had I stuck with the plan to use those markings

 

thanks also while I have you for a lifetime's contribution to airframe research & publishing - we are all much, much richer for your efforts

 

thanks also to Roger for bringing you in here

 

 

On 1/24/2022 at 5:43 PM, Pastor Rich said:

Peter,

 

According to research done by Dana Bell published in his book, "Air Force Colors Vol. I 1926-1942" (Squadron/Signal Publications), on page 28,

 

"Unpainted tactical aircraft would not be accepted from manufacturers until 1937 and Technical Orders for aircraft in service were not changed until March 1938."

 

"Fabric covered aircraft acting in a tactical role, or fabric covered portions of metal aircraft, were to be doped aluminium, to achieve uniformity with metal aircraft.  Older metal types without special coatings were inspected regularly for tell-tale signs of corrosion, and many were simply painted with aluminium paint.  Anti-glare panels ahead of cockpits and inside engine nacelles were commonly painted Flat Bronze Green 9, rather than flat black, until August 1942, when a new color -- Dull Dark Green -- was introduced."

 

I JUST found Dana's comments above!  Hello, Dana!!

 

There is no way I can improve on his observations as this is his speciality.  As is shared on page 46 of his book (above), "MD" denoted "Materiel Division".

 

 

 

The opening photo to your build of Duxford's P-40 is in the same markings as that of the top photo of page 47 from Dana's book (above) captioned, "One of the few early natural metal P-40s was assigned to the Air Corps Technical School's 10th Air Base Squadron.  This may be the fifth production airframe, 39-160.  (via Cavanagh)"  Some items of note, the tail wheel is spun around suggesting it was pushed into a parking space.  At least one photographer is taking a picture of this ship (seen just below the nose).  I'd bet this was taken during an open house not long after arrival to the field?  A recent arrival perhaps or photographed while on tour?  The photo (below) of G-CIIO clearly shows guns mounted in the cowling with sights before the windscreen.  160 10AB (above) has no post sights and doesn't look like it has guns installed.  The fairings are there but not the guns I'd say -- especially given no gun sight installed in the cockpit.  The dorsal radio antenna insulator is in a different location (above) than that of G-CIIO (below).  G-CIIO also has rack for external fuel tank while hard to see (above) it looks like 39-160 does not.  I've not done an exhaustive search for photos of 160 but  doubt you'll find many NMF Tomahawks out there and even fewer photos of them.  Note too the reflectivity of the elevator trim opposed to the lack thereof of the elevator.  Metal trim -v- aluminium doped, cloth covered elevator.  Rudder mass balance tab is painted white. 

 

According to Joe Baughter at "http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1938.html", "39-160 was assigned to NACA Langley Memorial Aeronautical Laboratory, Virginia Sep 3, 1940 to Dec 230, 1940. To CL-26 at Luke".  Perhaps a time after this photo was taken?

 

Adding more detail as I find it...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_Division,_Air_Training_Command

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

Rich - that is a legendary post! I have not seen the original pic that G-CIIO was based on so now I have a real world period airframe to base mine on - love the helpful observations too - thank you sooooo much

 

I got a bit more done on the P40 - first up the 3D printed chin intake arrived (thanks Tim!) so cleaned it up, added the fillets I needed that I couldn't do in 3D and painted alclad duralumin. I wanted to paint it even though it would need filler and sanding as if I was careful the inner faces where it meets the green intake parts would be undisturbed and save a tricky masking job later..

 

 

..then it was added and faired in with P38... the stage pictured is adding a raised rim all the way around what in reality is a casting so I can butt sheet litho up to it when I skin it..

 

the rim is created by adding dymo tape and filling up to it's level..

 

 

..then finished off and painted for later...

 

 

 

 

..then moved on to creating the cockpit sidewalls..

 

..there is a lot going on here...I started by making sheet parts to fit - lots of bending & shaping to get them to sit naturally in the open cockpit area. then brass sections were added to keep them straight and a sheet of balsa CA'd to this to basically keep the sides in a jig so they can be worked, but preserve their shape..

 

..for the coaming I vacformed from plan sections, though I cut it too short so had to make two parts..

 

 

..then that lot was all faired in but keeping free where the parts will break away from the fuselage, and the windshield opening cut away..

 

 

..the sidewalls were carefully broken away and the inner faces treated prior to skinning with litho..

 

..the datum line and the station positions were marked while on the model so they are true..

 

 

..those same datum marks were traced onto tape and the tape used to mark the positions on the new inner skin..

 

 

..then the main longeron, some stringers and the fuselage stations were added - problem here was the formers were from drawings and they didn't match the sidewalls too well so a bit of fettling was needed - there are still some gaps, but it is what it is..

 

 

 

 

..and they are a nice neat fit into the fuselage and are open and accessible in the jigs for detailing..

 

 

 

..now about 5,000 bits need to be made to go on them..

 

TTFN

Peter