Jump to content

River Class Frigate. HMS Mourne. K261. 1/400 scale. Black Cat Models.


Faraway

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Gidday, Jon I think that is a terrific gesture, re HMS Mourne. And Neil, it's hard to put a 'like' to your posts, considering what you've told us. No, I guess 1944 wasn't a good year for your family. As an aside, my paternal grandmother's maiden name was Barnes, but unlikely to be related. Her brother-in-law, one of my great uncles was killed in Lebanon in 1941.

     Jon, I'm looking forward to seeing how your model progresses. Regards, Jeff.

Jeff, fully understand. Would be funny if there was a connection, I have such a small family on both parents side there are a mere handful so any additional family members would be welcome !!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, socjo1 said:

3. Pennant number - maybe censorship activity?

I had originally wondered about the ship having been recently repainted, although the picture was taken only a year after launch and it's weathered so I discounted that. Couldn't think of any other reason other than censorship. The photos on the IWM site are the same as those my nan had with all of his paperwork so I assume they were public domain during the war. I don't know how to post pictures but the one titled interior study on board a frigate (cat number A 17877) has my uncle in it, he's the one sitting down writing in a pad. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, npb748r said:

I had originally wondered about the ship having been recently repainted, although the picture was taken only a year after launch and it's weathered so I discounted that. Couldn't think of any other reason other than censorship. The photos on the IWM site are the same as those my nan had with all of his paperwork so I assume they were public domain during the war. I don't know how to post pictures but the one titled interior study on board a frigate (cat number A 17877) has my uncle in it, he's the one sitting down writing in a pad. 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205186507
If you zoom in on the picture of the ship, you can just make out K261.

Jon

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to Peter Elliot’s Allied Escort Ships of WWII, Mourne had two twin power mounted Oerlikons aft in Jan 43. She also had 6 pounders ‘Army mountings’ fitted aft of the breakwater in November for close range U boat surface action. In 42 it had been recommended that all single Pom Poms and single Oerlikons in the four main close range positions be replaced with twin Oerlikons as they became available across the class.

 

Mike

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, mick b said:

According to Peter Elliot’s Allied Escort Ships of WWII, Mourne had two twin power mounted Oerlikons aft in Jan 43. She also had 6 pounders ‘Army mountings’ fitted aft of the breakwater in November for close range U boat surface action. In 42 it had been recommended that all single Pom Poms and single Oerlikons in the four main close range positions be replaced with twin Oerlikons as they became available across the class.

 

Mike

Mike.
This is turning into a can of worms, I seem to keep doing this.

Included in the kit are the Twin power mounted Oerlikons, which I can mount in the aft position. The two bridge single Oerlikons are no problem. Getting replacements for any other guns is going to be a problem, due to the scale 1/400, most suppliers of 3D printed guns don’t seem to do this scale.

Do you have any illustrations of the 6lb ‘army mounted’ the only reference I can find, appear to be 6lb anti-tank guns.

 

So, currently, given what you’ve said. I should mount two twin power mounted  Oerlikons in the aft position and two twin Oerlikons on the bridge, if I can get them.

The main guns, will I think, have to stay as the supplied 4”.

D’you reckon this will pass muster ?

Happy Christmas.

Jon

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Jon

 

Sorry to add to your woes but as you say a can of worms which is often the case with close range weapons fit in the RN in WW2 it seems.

 

My copy of Lavery’s River class Frigates and the Battle of the Atlantic says Mourne, Deveron and Towey had the 6 pounders that dated back to an 1884 design! An illustration of which can be found in the recently released John Lambert British Naval Weapons Volume 2, however he states in the drawing notes that these were fitted to smaller escorts with no mention of Rivers.

 

Lavery does mention the intention to fit twin Oerlikons as stocks allowed but doesn’t give specific ship details.

 

I would say twins aft with singles elsewhere but cannot be certain.

 

Mike

Edited by mick b
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Jon, Hi Mike

about 6 pounders:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_6pounder_m1.php

and here:

Good plans and description you can find in "Shipcraft Special: Flower Class Corvettes" by John Lambert and Les Brown too. If you want I can send you a scan.

 

Thank you Mike for your post, you are right. Norman Friedman in "British destroyers and Frigates" wrote too:

Quote

in 1943 some ships (including Deveron, Mourne, Tweedy and Tavy) received a pair of 6pdrs on the forecastle abeam the Hedgehog, to engage sufaced submarines.

However when we see these two photos from IWM (especially when we focus photos on IWM's page):

004iXWF.jpg

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205121288

 

Rla3xdO.jpg

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205151674

 

... I see only four singles with it's very characteristic white shiels, especially aft.

And where are 6-pounders "on the forecastle abeam the Hedgehog" ? We can see something covered in front of main 4 pdr gun... 

As always - many shades and shadows...

Regards,

Michał

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, socjo1 said:

And where are 6-pounders "on the forecastle abeam the Hedgehog" ?

Michal.

A thought occurs to me. What if the 6lb’s were not actually fixed to the deck, but still on their army chassis ? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok guys. I have a lot to ponder, but it must wait a couple of day. I thank you all for your input, it does seem to me that the less ‘glamorous’ the ship, the less we seem to know what they were actually like.

So, I will decide after Christmas, but I’m thinking I’ll leave the main guns as they are, put two single Oerlikons on the bridge and two twin power mounted Oerlikons in the aft position.

Have a great Christmas and I’ll see you all in a couple of days.

Jon

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope you all had a good Christmas.

I found I had a couple of hours free yesterday, so stuck some tiny railings, etc. on the radar platform.

p?i=cf771babf7a880c3ea22438747d56505

 

When I looked closely at this part, I noticed that the light was missing. It didn't look like it had been broken off, just that it didn't mould properly.

As there is a gap in the handrail where it is, not to have it, would have looked a bit daft. So, a little piece of thin styrene rod and bingo, a light. It might not be as detailed as I believe the resin moulded part would have been, but it's so small you can barely see it with the naked eye anyway. But at least it does fill the gap.

p?i=80cf780c860a5d702e5066aa8d856fbd

 

Here's the radar, with its opposite side platform.

p?i=ebcd1d8a69c8cbad08aa6e1e0bc71ab6

 

And this is where they will eventually end up.

p?i=1a3e9a50ea41c0133d07d1fd7f165204

What colour d'you think the floor of the bridge would be ? 

Same as the deck or maybe a brown Corticene ?

:hmmm:

 

Lastly, I have some encouraging progress. As you might know, I'm allergic to CA glue, well the fumes really.

So when I saw this and after reading many reports that it does not trigger the allergic response, I bought some. And so far,🤞 I've used it on the above hand rails etc. and no symptoms. :clap:

p?i=1f4cca42e7edd394da76089dc4d96111Jon

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, S-boat 55 said:

Thats tiny, well done, that's a good find on the glue, how does it compare with normal ca in thickness? 

If anything, it’s slightly more liquid. I was placing the PE onto the platform, and then using a thin piece of wire to add the CA, which was drawn into the join and set. It is SO much easier than using UV or PVA glues, I just hope I can continue with it, time will tell.

Jon

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Faraway said:

What colour d'you think the floor of the bridge would be ? 

Same as the deck or maybe a brown Corticene ?

:hmmm:

 

 

I would say "wood". Look at these photos I had sent you, file: "bridge". I see there some planking. The same conclusion after reading Brian Lavery's book and watching photos of similair escort ships:  Flowers and Castles.

Regards,

Mike

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Faraway said:

If anything, it’s slightly more liquid. I was placing the PE onto the platform, and then using a thin piece of wire to add the CA, which was drawn into the join and set. It is SO much easier than using UV or PVA glues, I just hope I can continue with it, time will tell.

Jon

That sounds pretty good, I use bog standard Loctite CA but find it performs much better when new and out of the fridge, I'll be curious to know if yours stays as thin as a bit of capillary action is always welcome, 

Edited by S-boat 55
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Been giving parts a coat of white.

 

Resin parts.

p?i=fa50c4426addd0fb461227e9ae36dfa8

 

3D parts

p?i=3153e0de34d67c898085470037bebf3c

 

More 3D parts. The one I've ringed are the depth charge rails, containing depth charges, which I'm going to have to paint a different colour. The depth charges, which I can hardly see, not the rails, oh joy.

p?i=4b35a14b749189fe8766bd95d587d7e9

 

The hull, which is now ready to be masked and have its blue camo applied.

Then I'll mask the whole thing and spray the deck.

p?i=0812b319fded7b4d5720c349a1bda6d7

 

Now, you remember we were discussing the armament, a while ago. Well @socjo1 :worthy:sent me hundreds of photos of various Rivers and this is one of HMS JED, clearly extra guns have been added, 

They look like Oerlikons, but I guess could be the suggested 6lb'ers. Anyway, I won't be adding them to my build.

 p?i=b68b5d924b3c7239c9851eb2cfad6248

 

While I'm here.

I've got the following books, but can anyone recommend any others that might be of help.

Norman Ough....The life and models 

Lambert/Brown...Corvettes

Mike McCabe.....Modelling

Konstam.....Light Cruisers.

 

Jon

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Faraway said:

 

I've got the following books, but can anyone recommend any others that might be of help.

Norman Ough....The life and models 

Lambert/Brown...Corvettes

Mike McCabe.....Modelling

Konstam.....Light Cruisers.

 

Jon

 

L6znkf4.jpg

 

P1050460.JPG.64550a014f1afba528fa2882b0b

 

+ Peter Elliot "Allied Escort Ships of World War II", 1977 (Higlhly recommended!)

+ Les Brown "British Sloops and Frigates of the Second World War" 2021 (ShipCraft 27)- I haven't this book and I will not buy but you may consider buing it...)

.... Malcolm Wright "British and Commonwealth Camuflages of II World War" - sorry to say but just pass it. It is really frustration for reader and buyer. Lot of mistakes and faults and many just messy colour profiles. Sorry to write such thing but reading this book is like gaming roulette (truth? 50% truth? completly science-fiction?) and really there are many better ways to spend your time and money.

For example - ordering your ship's big scans photos from Imperial War Museum.

Regards,

Mike.  

 

Edited by socjo1
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got the Brian Lavery book which has lots of general stuff in but not much on Mourne.  Those depth charges would be beyond my eyes/fingers capabilities - good luck with them !!!  I'm sitting on the 1/350 Sterling Models River class kit but haven't had the courage to start it yet. I'm a 1/32 aircraft modeller - dropping down to 1/350 is scary plus I've never built a resin kit before, the closest I've been is sticking tiny bits of resin onto 1/32 plastic kits.  Really enjoying the build, it's a nice feeling to see HMS Mourne in the title of your post and the ship coming to life.

neil

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, npb748r said:

Those depth charges would be beyond my eyes/fingers capabilities - good luck with them !!! 

I have a cunning plan 🤞🤞🤞🤞

Jon

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Jon

I agree with Michal about his book recommendations.

Don't forget Simon at Micromaster will print in 1/400 though I appreciate the service is currently offline due to printer failure.

FWIW in the picture above they are definitely 20mm Oerlikons - the bow chaser is likely a Mk VIIa and the gun at the front of the superstructures is likely a Mk IIA

I cannot ever imagine any weapons not being "fixed" to the deck.  These ships endured pretty testing N Atlantic weather

Interesting news about the CA glue

Rob

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, robgizlu said:

I cannot ever imagine any weapons not being "fixed" to the deck.

I sort of wondered if a military gun carriage could have been tied down. But as you say, the conditions probably were a bit too testing. I did see some pictures of the 6lb guns on a tripod type mount. As you say, the guns in this picture are 20mm Oerlikons. 
I’ll not be adding anything to this build, but it is raising questions with some of the fittings. So I’ll probably be asking a few more questions before the end.

Jon

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's the hull painted, just need to let the paint harden off and mask it all, then spray the deck.

And then finally, I can start sticking bits on.

p?i=fec54c223c435caee183b7e28ede7ed5

 

Can anyone tell me what these are ?

There is also a couple forward.

p?i=abd872903bb3b91486b1d9a97457753d

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On British ships there should be rather flotanets:

cIbvEOI.jpg

 

https://micromaster.co.nz/products/1-350-royal-navy-flota-nets-x16?_pos=4&_sid=4856819db&_ss=r

 

1381166242_P1050380(Copy).thumb.jpg.d9ae

 

Brown long part above ship's name plate (from my Castle class corvette WEM 1/350)

 

Maybe you can try scratchbuild them (thin wires...)?

 

M.

 

Edited by socjo1
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...