Warnecke & Böhm filler 119 D

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

From Ken Merrick´s book Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings Vol 1: 

 

(of the first 50 Fw 190 with unpainted undersides, page 102)
"... only the primer filler has to be applied on the bare sheet metal ... the deletion of camouflage paint has to be particularily noted."

 

(the first communication letter dated 4.7.44 - "Fw 190 abolition of camouflage paint on the aircraft underside", page 102):
"... For the priming of bare sheet metal we have considered the putty 119 D from the Warnecke & Böhm company, which we ordered on 16.7.44 by telex..."

 

(the second document on page 103):
"...Therefore it is not necessary to obtain special paints for this large-scale test other than the already quoted putty 119 D from the Warnecke & Böhm company"

So, filler/putty/primer 119 D use is documented in connection Fw 190 with unpainted undersides.

 

Is it too far out to assume the 119 D could have been the finish we see on Fw 190 D wing leading edges upper and lower sides?

 

If we stretch even further could the same substance have been used as the Me 262 aerodynamic filler?

 

NASM Me 262 "Yellow 7" fuselage side primer on  has been identified as Munsell 10 Y 7/1

https://images.myperfectcolor.com/repositories/images/colors/munsell-10y-71-paint-color-match-2.jpg

The purpose of this posting is not to state anything but to create discussion and provide perhaps new food to the late Luftwaffe aircraft underside finish ponderings.

 

This is slight reiteration of 2005 vintage discussion at TOCH forum:
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=3916

 

Cheers,
Kari

[MDriskill]

That's a very interesting idea. 
 

What was the nature of the 119 D material? Was it a stiff putty that was applied with a knife or spreading tool? Or a more liquid material that could be brushed or sprayed to produce an even color coating?

 

In other words, could the stuff be left as a finish coat, or would it just be used to address rough spots and subsequently painted over?

Edited December 21, 2021 by MDriskill

[Jochen Barett]

This is in theory well known ( http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=3916 6th February 2006, 23:32) but I fear in real modellers life it has the potential of many many many many many many many repainted Fw 109 D wings (esp. in connection with the color chip to the well known but long ignored "Munsell 10 Y 7/1").

 

 

PS: Maybe even the (hi)story of RLM "84" has to be rewritten

Edited December 21, 2021 by Jochen Barett

[Werdna]

19 minutes ago, Jochen Barett said:

PS: Maybe even the (hi)story of RLM "84" has to be rewritten

 

Do you mean that people may have been mistaking '119D' for a new RLM colour (ie '84')..?  If so, I think the appearance of the two 'colours' is different enough for that not to be the case.

 

(the munsell reference is coming up on my monitor as a kind of pale/mid grey and seems quite a distance from 84).

[Werdna]

Actually,  further to the above,  I've just signed in from my phone and the munsell colour now looks completely different- much closer to an RLM '84' type appearance.

 

Apologies for questioning it earlier,  but it just goes to show how different colours can look depending on the device they are viewed on.  Anyway, carry on..

[JWM]

Form me the color looks more similar to RLM-02 perhaps, not the RLM 84...

Regards

J-W

[alt-92]

Oh good, I'm not the only one who thought so

[Bozothenutter]

9 hours ago, JWM said:

Form me the color looks more similar to RLM-02 perhaps, not the RLM 84...

Regards

J-W

Which would make sense, current auto fillers are matched with primers too.

[Bozothenutter]

silly question, but has anybody asked W&B about this?

[Jochen Barett]

19 hours ago, Werdna said:

Actually,  further to the above,  I've just signed in from my phone and the munsell colour now looks completely different- much closer to an RLM '84' type appearance.

 

Apologies for questioning it earlier,  but it just goes to show how different colours can look depending on the device they are viewed on.  Anyway, carry on..

Don't apologize! Any good question deserves an answer.

 

Checking Model Air 71.103 Graublau RLM 84 Vallejo 17ml

like shown here https://www.architekturbedarf.de/marken/vallejo/model-air/model-air-71103-graublau-rlm-84

 

(and not referencing the very duck egg green representations/interpretations of "late war greenish RLM 76, referenced by some as RLM "84"")

 

I think one might have a hard time to tell the difference in a 1944/1945 color or B&W photograph. And maybe one would be closer to "the truth" with that Munsell 10 Y 7/1 (or a close mix) than with some other representations/interpretations of "late war RLM 76".

 

It would be nice to know the binder etc. and take a guesstimate on its yellowing over time and the precision Warnecke & Böhm applied when mixing that "putty".