Pritch Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 (edited) My new 1/48 Airfix Vampire has arrived; 18 days for halfway round the world - well done Mr Hannant for this time of the year. I've been tinkering with both Alley Cat and a Classic Airframes kits recently, never getting past the cockpit, and the one thing that struck me was the difference in the size of the seat. Alongside the other the seats from the other two, it looks like the wrong scale. I did a bit of measuring. left to right, the Alley Cat seat is 9.3 mm across the seat pan, the Classic Airframes one (with my first attempt at modifying the back to the sort used by the RNZAF) is 9.5mm, and the Airfix one weighs in at 10mm. For what it's worth, the 1/72 plans by both Ian Huntley and Alf Granger scale up tp 9.5mm. All very confusing. Is Airfix right and everyone else wrong? I'm also working on the Airfix 1/48 Tiger Moth, and the seat in that is 7.8mm across the base. I know that Tiger Moth pilots don't wear any high-altitude gear, but .... Tony P Edited December 18, 2021 by Pritch oops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 (edited) Just because it was easy, the Trumpeter seat measures about 7.7mm inside dimension, and about 9mm outside width. It is shaped rather like Alley Cat's, without the details on the sides, and maybe a bit taller, based on your photo (I don't know where my Alley Cat kit is offhand). Much thinner edges compared to Airfix, too, and I'm certainly not impressed with the latter based on your photo! Edit: to be clear, I am speaking only of the seat. I have high hopes for the kit in general, which I expect to find under the tree in a week. Edited December 18, 2021 by gingerbob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britman Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 The Airfix seat does not do justice to the rest of the kit unfortunately. The kit is a joy but the seat almost looks like it was the last item in the design to get it out to production. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 One for @wellsprop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellsprop Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 I thought the seat looked a little sparse and surprisingly large. Forgive my ignorance, but I assumed the fb5 had a bang seat. Definitely one I can CAD and print, providing I can get proper confirmation on the seats size and perhaps some detailed images... Anyone able to help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Maas Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 IIRC FB.5's came with standard seats, some got bang seats later on in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 33 minutes ago, wellsprop said: I thought the seat looked a little sparse and surprisingly large. Forgive my ignorance, but I assumed the fb5 had a bang seat. Definitely one I can CAD and print, providing I can get proper confirmation on the seats size and perhaps some detailed images... Anyone able to help? There was a recent thread in this section talking about the seat with images, but I can't find it now. @david collins is building the kit and has images of his Hornet seat, so maybe a good contact for details, I though ejection seats were only fitted to certain export and licenced produced Vampires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 (edited) and some photos showing seat in cockpit, which might help you evaluate: Edited December 18, 2021 by gingerbob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 2 hours ago, wellsprop said: Forgive my ignorance, but I assumed the fb5 had a bang seat. None of the RAF single seaters had an ejection seat, it was only fitted later on some export variants eg swiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pritch Posted December 18, 2021 Author Share Posted December 18, 2021 To kick things along a little, the seat I'm trying to achieve is not the SRBP (synthetic resin-bonded paper) one, which is brown; it's the metal one like this: http://www.kiwiaircraftimages.com/pages/ashvamp3.html Tony P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredag Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 Looking at your location, nip down the road to Southwards Museum, they have a Vampire on a stand. You might be able to get look into the cockpit, or at least an idea of how tight the seat is in relation to the cockpit (might be able to scale from that?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pritch Posted December 19, 2021 Author Share Posted December 19, 2021 Thanks. Been there many times. It's way up in the air on the side of the hall on the far side -- good view of the wheel wells, but not a hope in hell of seeing anything of the cockpit other than a glimpse of the pilot dummy's helmet. James Fahey has some good photos online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 I wonder how many were fitted with the style of seat you showed- I notice that others in NZ have the regular seat, though I didn't worry about whether they had actually been in service there. In other words, what's the story behind your non-standard seat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pritch Posted December 19, 2021 Author Share Posted December 19, 2021 The NZAF flew FB.9s in Singapore and brought some back as instructional airframes. One is on a plinth at Ohakea, and another is at MoTaT in Auckland, where you can see that it has the standard RAF seat. As for the history of what was used locally I have no idea, but I did once have a conversation with an ex-airforce technician who had worked on Vampires: 'What were the seats made of?' "Metal" 'What colour were they?' "Green". (Well, it was a long time ago.) The seat pictured on Phillip Treweek's website is from NZ5769, an FB.5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 52 minutes ago, gingerbob said: I notice that others in NZ have the regular seat, though I didn't worry about whether they had actually been in service there. In other words, what's the story behind your non-standard seat? 29 minutes ago, Pritch said: who had worked on Vampires: 'What were the seats made of?' "Metal" 'What colour were they?' "Green". (Well, it was a long time ago.) The seat pictured on Phillip Treweek's website is from NZ5769, an FB.5. The RNZAF purchased 2 lots of Vampires, early 1950's, mid-dish 1950's and later 1950's, extras as replacements for attrition in the current Vampire fleet. These were all ex RAF, so would have arrived with whatever seats DeHavilland had put into the Cockpits per respective Air Ministry/RAF Orders at the time. NZ5769 was a mid 1950's purchased airframe. This enlarged frontal photo of NZ5776 (BOC Mid 1950's), could be either formed seat or Metal Full photo from RNZAF Museum (RNZAF Official - Air Force Museum of New Zealand - Used with Permissions) Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
71chally Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 Is it possible that the metal seat was a locally produced modification, or fitted during it's time as an instructional airframe from another type and just fitted for something to sit on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 1 hour ago, 71chally said: Is it possible that the metal seat was a locally produced modification, or fitted during it's time as an instructional airframe from another type and just fitted for something to sit on? That's what I thought when I first saw it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 Is this any good? For the Trumpeter kit but just a seat so..... https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/PAVS48044 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pritch Posted December 19, 2021 Author Share Posted December 19, 2021 (edited) Bingo! Thanks for that; I've ordered a Pavla seat, which looks like it'll do nicely for a 50s Vampire. With a Flightpath instrument panel and an Aeroclub vac canopy, I'm ready to go. Thank you all for your input. And I'll donate the Airfix seat to one of my grandkids' Lego sets, where I think it belongs. Edited December 19, 2021 by Pritch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welkin Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/19/2021 at 8:26 PM, Pritch said: And I'll donate the Airfix seat to one of my grandkids' Lego sets, where I think it belongs. Could you just swap it for a Lego seat? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pritch Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 I'm impressed. With the addition of seatbelts, that wouldn't look too shabby. And it comes with a pilot who is at least as realistic as the Airfix one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted December 23, 2021 Share Posted December 23, 2021 On 12/19/2021 at 8:26 PM, Pritch said: Bingo! Thanks for that; I've ordered a Pavla seat, which looks like it'll do nicely for a 50s Vampire. With a Flightpath instrument panel and an Aeroclub vac canopy, I'm ready to go. Thank you all for your input. And I'll donate the Airfix seat to one of my grandkids' Lego sets, where I think it belongs. Where did you order it from? I have tried too but there seems to be a world shortage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pritch Posted December 23, 2021 Author Share Posted December 23, 2021 BNA ModelWorld in Melbourne, Australia --- but it looks like I might have got the last one there. Sorry. ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viscount806x Posted December 26, 2021 Share Posted December 26, 2021 On 12/23/2021 at 8:02 PM, Pritch said: BNA ModelWorld in Melbourne, Australia --- but it looks like I might have got the last one there. Sorry. ☹️ Well Done sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 Having just gone over my kit for the first time, I wanted to mention that the kit seat isn't quite as awful as the top photo makes it look. For one thing, there's a second with (not terribly impressive) belts molded on- the one pictured is intended for when the pilot is there. Industrious people could probably sand the edges down considerably and end up with a decent looking seat, but I think a resin replacement is a good option. That's as far as my own thinking/ research has gone at present. bob p.s. My general first impression of the kit is, "Ooh, I like this!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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