Every Vally Shall Be Exalted - The Valentine Tank Family Vol.1 - Finished

[Bertie McBoatface]

31 minutes ago, HAMP man said:

possible chance of snow? Two wheel drive Tilley?

 

They better have a few extra spades then.

[Bertie McBoatface]

 

Just in time I spotted those locating holes for the bogies. I filled them with sprue plugs for speed.

 

 

Then, with the superstructure dismantled, I sprayed everything with Tamiya Imperial Japanese Navy Green. That's really dark and really blueish. Then I assembled everything dry as you see in the photo. I want to give the impression of dark corners and brighter greens where the winter light is shining down into the compartment.

 

At first I thought of using a dark primer and then spraying white from above as I do when painting figures. The problem with that is that this is a comparatively huge area and I'd lose most of the effect when I tried to spray green evenly over the 'pre-shading'. My experiment tonight is more of a 'post-highlighting' approach to the problem. I'd use this dark blue-green for my shadows but also as a general purpose primer, then spray lighter greens from above onto the parts facing the sky.

 

 

As usual with this shadowing, it's hard to see on the photograph as it mimics exactly the real shadows cast by my overhead light. You can see the dark area which was underneath the gun though. I used Dark Green XF-89, but it was too dark and I needed more contrast, so I lightened it with white and yellow and hit it, baby, one more time.

 

 

Here's the driver's frontal armour, lit from my angle poise light . You can now see the painted shadows.

 

 

And if I hold it the right way up the shadows disappear into the shadow. In daylight the shadows would be quite faint if I hadn't painted fake ones in. I'm hoping that the increased contrast will make the fighting compartment appear as though it's full sized and not a tiny toy.

 

 

Here's a better shot of the floor with the gun shadow. See how dark the driver's compartment is? That's because he's going to be blocking the light.

 

 

I also used the dark green as a primer on all of the other components. I'll be brush painting them with Vallejo next time so they did need some sort of priming and Tamiya flat paints should be fine, stuck down well because I used their lacquer thinner which seems to bond to plastic without using actual thinner. It won't matter if it's a bit fragile as this is the inside and wont get handled much.

 

I still want more contrast so I'll be dry-brushing some edge highlights in the morning when everything is dried hard. I'll use a pale Humbrol colour as I find dry-brushing acrylics totally tiresome and unsubtle to boot.

 

Then it'll be  time for pinwash and chips. Yummy!

 

 

 

 

[PF Naughton]

On 1/31/2022 at 12:47 PM, Bertie Psmith said:

 

 

 

Hmm, now that you mention it, that thing does look like a gravy boat, and the things next to it, with all the circular openings kind of reminds me of those "utensil holders" you see at some buffet style restaurants.

Pat

Edited February 3, 2022 by PF Naughton

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 hour ago, PF Naughton said:

Hmm, now that you mention it, that thing does look like a gravy boat, and the things next to it, with all the circular openings kind of reminds me of those "utensil holders" you see at some buffet style restaurants.

Pat

The ‘Little Chef’ Armoured Division goes to war. 😂

[edjbartos]

Nice painting Bertie, it’s coming along a treat...

 

Ed

[Bertie McBoatface]

3 hours ago, edjbartos said:

Nice painting Bertie, it’s coming along a treat...

 

Ed

 

Thanks Ed.

 

 

I did the drybrushing last night. One general go over, always in a downwards direction, with Cockpit Green and then another on the highest lights with Humbrol Sky. The photo was taken this morning in some natural light that just happened to break through the clouds for a moment.

 

[HAMP man]

Learning loads, 

 

Box On

 

Strickers

[Bertie McBoatface]

 

All I've been able to do today was a session of detail painting of the interior and the things that are about to go in there. It isn't really very exciting, I'm afraid.

 

 

The same process, just bigger pieces. I had hoped to make a lot more progress than this but some days are like that. 

 

 

Here's a little thing I've been pondering, not the shell, that's just an example. I mean our practice of representing metal with metallic paints. 

 

That shell doesn't look like brass. It looks like a shell that's been covered all over with yellowish glitter. This is Vallejo 'Old Gold' so it's not the best metallic paint by a very long way. If I'd had Vallejo Metal Color in brass, I would have sprayed that on. I tried mixing Jet Exhaust with Steel and Chrome and Yellow ink but the results were disappointing. It still looked like steel - steel metallic paint that is. It didn't look like steel because steel looks grey, unless it's been polished.

 

Brass looks brown, unless it's been polished. Aluminium looks grey, unless polished. The only metals that I know of that are naturally shiny are gold and mercury, both being commonly used in armoured fighting vehicles, but not where you can see them. Brass bullet cases are sometimes shiny, I've seen them like that in civilian use, but all the live military ammunition that I ever saw in 23 years on the job, was dull brown, and the empties were duller and darker. Nothing at all like the photo above.

 

Even if we say that the artillery shells of WWII were polished to a shine, the reflections, the glints, the shine is not distributed all over the surface in the tiny specks which is what we get with metallic paint, even the best of which merely have smaller particles of reflective mica, but they still don't shine properly. (Actually some of them contain graphite and that can be polished but I don't think that stuff comes in brass colour)

 

In figure painting, there's a method called non-metallic metal NMM, where the painter will colour a sword grey, for example, and then paint the lighter grey to white reflections in the appropriate places. It's very painstaking and difficult to do. Despite the many YouTube tutorials which I've studied, I have never made it work on a single sword, on a small figure, which is only looked at from one direction. A tank full of shells all glinting in different directions would be incredibly difficult, if not impossible,  to paint in NMM. So we use metallics instead and believe that it looks OK.

I think metallic paint is something that we are so familiar with that we can't even see it anymore. It's like the way we don't see clouds. We think they are white because that's what Mrs Johnson in Reception told us so, but spend a day actually looking at them and you will be lucky to find a white one. Look really closely and you'll find the 'white' ones are all the colours of the spectrum, they are full of rainbows! Now I've stated seeing my metallic paints, I can't un-see how pants these paints really are.

 

So I'm going to repaint my shells brown with a few yellowish scratches on the rim where the extractor hit them, and every modeller who looks at them will say WOE?* I suspect that I will too, until I get used to it. 

 

WOE will I do if I ever want to paint a natural metal aeroplane? NEIOC**

 

 

 

 

 

*"What on Earth?" 

** "No Earthly Idea, Old Chum."

 

 

[Maginot]

I hear what you're saying loud and clear.

 

I've just examined a handful of empty brass pistol cartridges I brought home from the range recently. They are what I would describe as a semi-gloss gold/yellow finish with brown smears/patches where tarnishing has occurred due to heat and handling. The modelled shell on your toothpick is not an all together bad representation of them, apart from the grainy/sparkley finish on the paint. I have a large jar full of spent rifle and sub-machine gun cartridges that I use as a doorstop. They were collected 20-odd years ago. These are mostly tarnished dull browns as you describe. I also have a 25pdr shell case that looks as though it might be fashioned from smooth brown/yellow clay rather than brass, and has quasi claret-coloured stains on it, but that's very old.

 

In recent weeks, anticipating tackling oleo struts and shiny gun recoil surfaces, I've tried to remember (but failed) some rub-on metallic finish stuff I vaguely recall using in the 70s. I think it came in a tube or a jar. There was gold and silver. I don't think it was primarily produced for us modellers. Any recollections?

 

Quote

WOE will I do if I ever want to paint a natural metal aeroplane? NEIOC**

 

Well, I would like to try the Bare Metal Foil product to reproduce the shiny front end of a Hawker Hart/Osprey I'm getting to. That's not painting, but does it inform your thoughts on metal-effect finishing?

[Bertie McBoatface]

19 minutes ago, Maginot said:

I hear what you're saying loud and clear.

 

I've just examined a handful of empty brass pistol cartridges I brought home from the range recently. They are what I would describe as a semi-gloss gold/yellow finish with brown smears/patches where tarnishing has occurred due to heat and handling. The modelled shell on your toothpick is not an all together bad representation of them, apart from the grainy/sparkley finish on the paint. I have a large jar full of spent rifle and sub-machine gun cartridges that I use as a doorstop. They were collected 20-odd years ago. These are mostly tarnished dull browns as you describe. I also have a 25pdr shell case that looks as though it might be fashioned from smooth brown/yellow clay rather than brass, and has quasi claret-coloured stains on it, but that's very old.

 

In recent weeks, anticipating tackling oleo struts and shiny gun recoil surfaces, I've tried to remember (but failed) some rub-on metallic finish stuff I vaguely recall using in the 70s. I think it came in a tube or a jar. There was gold and silver. I don't think it was primarily produced for us modellers. Any recollections?

 

Was it Rub'n'buff?

 

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/455248220/rub-n-buff-wax-metallic-finish-choose?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_uk_en_gb_b-craft_supplies_and_tools-other&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAiAl-6PBhBCEiwAc2GOVF-5aY8DB61xDQ_43l-NDhd_QGfOitkkLNvL-SV1IcwTR10jrg_YqBoCM7MQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_12603393992_120069557659_508814305847_pla-295462056907_c__455248220engb_469677158&utm_custom2=12603393992&gclid=CjwKCAiAl-6PBhBCEiwAc2GOVF-5aY8DB61xDQ_43l-NDhd_QGfOitkkLNvL-SV1IcwTR10jrg_YqBoCM7MQAvD_BwE

 

I've seen posts saying that it rubs off but I think that may depend on the paint layer underneath.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Maginot said:

 

Well, I would like to try the Bare Metal Foil product to reproduce the shiny front end of a Hawker Hart/Osprey I'm getting to. That's not painting, but does it inform your thoughts on metal-effect finishing?

 

Interesting. I've used foil in small amounts on aircraft oleo legs with good results, I thought. In fact I was looking for my roll of aluminium tape recently - with no luck.

 

It is limited to mostly flat areas. You couldn't do an engine in it.

 

 

[JeroenS]

I use the Vallejo paints a lot, the Metal Colours are very good, I also have some of the Model Colour Metallic paints, in fact I have brass paint. They don't match up to the metal colour range in my opinion. I thought I'd lay out a quick trial with it, centering on your observation of the shells being brown(ish). If you google "brass shells" you will get shiny ones but also shells that indeed have a brownish hue (I don't know if I'm describing this correctly, but hey). 

 

I primed a small piece of tube black and then used various methods of trying to get something like that brown hue. 

 

 

The piece on the right is the plain brass paint. Hm. The one on the left is a base of golden brown with the (thinned) brass paint sort of dry bushed over it. Even more hm. The center piece has a base of flat brown, with the brass paint brushed over it in the same fashion. It does show potential and it certainly looks more like brass than the solid brass paint. This was just quick and dirty so I'm sure you could make a more convincing brass lookalike. 

[Bertie McBoatface]

15 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

It is limited to mostly flat areas. You couldn't do an engine in it.

 Foil, that is @Maginot, but then on a complex shape like that, metallic paint works much better.

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

10 minutes ago, JeroenS said:

I use the Vallejo paints a lot, the Metal Colours are very good, I also have some of the Model Colour Metallic paints, in fact I have brass paint. They don't match up to the metal colour range in my opinion. I thought I'd lay out a quick trial with it, centering on your observation of the shells being brown(ish). If you google "brass shells" you will get shiny ones but also shells that indeed have a brownish hue (I don't know if I'm describing this correctly, but hey). 

 

I primed a small piece of tube black and then used various methods of trying to get something like that brown hue. 

 

 

The piece on the right is the plain brass paint. Hm. The one on the left is a base of golden brown with the (thinned) brass paint sort of dry bushed over it. Even more hm. The center piece has a base of flat brown, with the brass paint brushed over it in the same fashion. It does show potential and it certainly looks more like brass than the solid brass paint. This was just quick and dirty so I'm sure you could make a more convincing brass lookalike. 

 

That was fast! 

 

Yes, there seem to be more ways to use metallic paints than I'd been considering. This is a good field for exploration.

 

 

[Bertie McBoatface]

 

Even this filthy old thing has a shine but you see where it is and the shape of it.

 

In the case of a cylinder, it runs axially, on the radius half way between the observer's eye and the light. Hard to predict!

[Maginot]

Quote

Was it Rub'n'buff?

 

Thanks Bertie. If not that brand, certainly the same sort of gear.

 

Here's the area I had in mind for the Bare Metal Foil experiment on the Hart/Osprey. The engine covers were polished to near mirror finish looking at period photos.

 

 

[ColonelKrypton]

10 minutes ago, Bertie Psmith said:

there seem to be more ways to use metallic paints than I'd been considering. This is a good field for exploration

 

If you have not tried them, you might consider having a go with AK Interactive's True Metal 

 

https://ak-interactive.com/product-category/paints/true-metal-paints/

 

They are a paste like artists oil paints but they are ( apparently ) wax based.  You can rub them on with a cotton bud, and selectively buff as desired. You can also also thin them and apply with a paint brush or even airbrush.  I have been trying them out and quite like them for certain things. The finish is somewhat maskable with low tack masking tape or frisket and somewhat delicate to over handling but they create a finish which looks the part.  More robust than I remember Rub and Buff being.

 

A search of youtube will yield a number of interesting videos.

 

cheers, Graham

[Model Mate]

Oooh, this is a subject I’m very interested in….and strangely enough was researching a bit this afternoon.  

I saw a mention of rub’n buff above. I still have small tube of this I’ve been using for ages. It’s a wax paste (possibly like the AK products someone mentioned). There also used to be  (many years ago) another similar one called “gold finger”, which (like rub’n buff) was available in silver and gold colours. I’ve found this can do a very passable NMF on aircraft (sealed with a coat of Klara) and I also use it a lot for generic white/silver metal parts. It can be thinned with white spirit and even mixed with enamel paint - I’ve only mixed it with grey to get shades of gunmetal, but other colours might be possible, I’m not sure. One nice quality is that it can be buffed (hence the name I suppose) when dry and this is true even after it’s been mixed with enamel and painted on.

 

From what little research I’ve conducted today, Vallejo’s model air steel seems to be a very popular and highly regarded choice (definitely NOT their model colour steel, which I’ve got and is rubbish - like sequins in jelly). I get the impression that their model-air metallics are all pretty good, and can be brushed on successfully.

 

Finally, I found for my Pierce-arrow AA truck, that nothing beats actual brass when it comes to colour/sheen/patina. It might be a bit too shiny (like some paint finishes) but a few wash coats of brown oil paint and it dulls down nicely while keeping that illusive “metallic” quality and protecting it against further, unwanted corrosion. This might also be true of a decent metallic paint finish….

[vytautas]

As for metallics, I really like Mr. Metal Color paints. The pigment in these paints is very fine, and what is important, these paints can be polished, thus obtaining a more or less shining surface. Very important that under any metallics there is a perfectly smooth, best of all glossy surface - a matte primer in this case is categorically not suitable! If the surface is primed with a matte primer, the metallic paint surface will repeat the microscopic roughness of the primer and will not resemble a real shining metal surface.

Sorry for the poor quality of the photo, it actually looks much better.

 

Vytautas

[Bertie McBoatface]

39 minutes ago, vytautas said:

Very important that under any metallics there is a perfectly smooth, best of all glossy surface - a matte primer in this case is categorically not suitable

Of course it isn’t! How can I have forgotten that? I was spraying the original alclad on gloss black enamel twenty years ago, it’s not like I’m a novice! Thinks just fall out of my head these days. 
 

I am starting to be concerned about my memory but it’s ok. I’ll have forgotten about it by breakfast time. 😵‍💫

[Bertie McBoatface]

43 minutes ago, vytautas said:

the photo, it actually looks much better.

That is the shine I was looking for. 
 

silly me. 

[opus999]

23 hours ago, Bertie Psmith said:

So I'm going to repaint my shells brown with a few yellowish scratches on the rim where the extractor hit them, and every modeller who looks at them will say WOE?* I suspect that I will too, until I get used to it. 

 

WOE will I do if I ever want to paint a natural metal aeroplane? NEIOC**

I think you're onto something with repainting the shells brown.  From where I'm sitting the middle color in @JeroenS's paint demonstration looks very convincing.

 

As someone who has struggled, experimented and sworn at NMF aircraft painting, I've largely given up (for the time being anyway).  I've seen some modellers who have created NMF beauties that I had to convince my self were not real aircraft.  Yet when I use the same techniques I end up with a model that looks like a model with shiny paint on it.  I've become quite pleased with my non-NMF paint skills in terms of weathering and wear, but for NMF, I've just stopped stressing about it.

 

I just had one of what is becoming my bi-weekly catch-ups.  Armor isn't really my thing, but I have to say that I appreciate good modeling no matter what the subject, and I've thoroughly enjoyed this thread so far!  Plus, picked up a few ideas along the way.  Your rolling cafeteria is looking mighty fine so far!    

[Bertie McBoatface]

1 hour ago, opus999 said:

Your rolling cafeteria is looking mighty fine so far!

 

You didn't know the catering corps had an armoured regiment, did you? 😁

 

As the author of this sorry tale, I'm immensely gratified to know that non-armour moddellers are enjoying the thread. Thanks for letting me know. If ever you are feeling REALLY bored have a look at the equivalent production that I've just  started up down in the Figure Modelling dungeons...

 

 

 

[PF Naughton]

Is this tank from the "Culinary Combat Commando" Corps.  😮

 

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by PF Naughton

[Bertie McBoatface]

4 hours ago, PF Naughton said:

Is this tank from the "Culinary Combat Commando" Corps.  😮

Haha! I remember many airman’s mess meals that could have been classified as lethal weapons. Chemical and biological warfare!

 

(You'll be in trouble posting a copyright picture.)

[Stef N.]

On 04/02/2022 at 07:18, vytautas said:

As for metallics, I really like Mr. Metal Color paints. The pigment in these paints is very fine, and what is important, these paints can be polished, thus obtaining a more or less shining surface. Very important that under any metallics there is a perfectly smooth, best of all glossy surface - a matte primer in this case is categorically not suitable! If the surface is primed with a matte primer, the metallic paint surface will repeat the microscopic roughness of the primer and will not resemble a real shining metal surface.

Sorry for the poor quality of the photo, it actually looks much better.

 

Vytautas

Agree that this paint is really nice and brush paints very well too. Not the cheapest but worth it for smaller parts etc.