Odd Addition on British M10 tank destroyer (Polish manned AFV)

[MIKKAR]

Gentlemen,

 

I was wondering if anyone knowledgeable about British/Commonwealth fittings on American tanks could perhaps help me. In the well known photo of an M10 tank destroyer in Polish service there is a device mounted on the right hand side of the turret. Initially, I thought it was another .30 Browning machine gun, but it looks like some kind of sighting equipment. Does anyone know for sure? Thanks in advance for any possible help in this matter. Regards, MK

 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/850547079596799962/

Edited December 10, 2021 by MIKKAR

[Kingsman]

Well there's clearly a 0.50 on an improvised mounting on the left of the turret and another MG in the centre, which looks like a 0.30 from the shape of the ammo box   Improvised turret roof armour has been added: the rear section is hinged open here.  I don't think the thing on the right is a third MG either.

 

It could conceivably be the rarely-seen 2 inch mortar pintle mount for the Universal Carrier.    Unlike most "tanks" in British service, M10s had no smoke discharger.  This mount would serve the same smoke purpose as the fixed 2" mortar found on tanks, and could also usefully fire HE and illuminating rounds.  On the Universal Carrier it replaced the earlier fixed 4" smoke discharger.  Later in NWE tank destroyers became frequently used as tanks by US and Commonwealth forces, a role for which they were not suited and in which they often suffered badly especially in close and urban terrain.  Hence, I imagine, the roof armour and additional close-in weapons.

 

These are the best photos I could find: it is pretty rare. 

  

[magman2]

It’s a 2inch bomb thrower for smoke rounds 

[MIKKAR]

Thank You, Gentlemen! Makes sense!

[StuartH]

I've been thinking about doing this vehicle in 1/48.

Hauler do a conversion set with that 2" mortar you mention in 1/48

http://www.hauler.cz/e-shop/1-48-afv-photoetched-parts-8/m10-td-gdynia-i-conversion-set-282#!prettyPhoto

 

 

 

[MIKKAR]

1 minute ago, StuartH said:

I've been thinking about doing this vehicle in 1/48.

Hauler do a conversion set with that 2" mortar you mention in 1/48

http://www.hauler.cz/e-shop/1-48-afv-photoetched-parts-8/m10-td-gdynia-i-conversion-set-282#!prettyPhoto

Hauler provide you with a .30 Browning MG. The rest of the bits are useful for 1/48, providing 90% or so of the work. Voyager provides the etch roof protection I. 1.35 if anyone is interested, and Resicast offer a set of those smoke bomb projectors which thankfully I have at home awaiting placement on my Tamiya m10.

 

 

 

[Kingsman]

The Resicast parts are not the same as those on the M10.  They give you the internal 2" bomb thrower on a pintle mount, which was done but again very rarely.  It was intended primarily for M4s that did not have the internal thrower factory fitted or retrofitted as a substitute for the side-mounted 4" discharger.  But of course it could only be used head-out with no means of firing from under armour, possibly explaining why it seems impossible to find in photos.  This weapon has a shorter barrel with a break hinge and a pistol grip.  I do not believe that this is what is mounted on the M10, which I still believe to be the normal 2" mortar on the universal carrier mount.

 

[MIKKAR]

Thanks Das, I noticed that when I looked at the Resicast set I have in my collection las night. The rear end of the discharged is what is throwing me off, it looks square-ish and not just having a tube as the tube is affixed to the square/rectangular part (as you can see in the photo). Any ideas on who makes one or a pic of the thing? Regards, MK

[Kingsman]

Fortunately one of Bovington's Universal Carriers still has the 2" mortar mounting bracket fitted.  I was surprised to find that it seems to be a fixed mounting with no traverse.  Pictures below.

 

      

 

    

 

 

How the weapon fitted to the bracket is more of a mystery and pictures of it are almost impossible to find.  This one is about the best, but is still unclear.  It seems to show that the mortar could traverse independently of the bracket and the fixed angle along the side armour was for travel stowage.  In which case there may be an interface part into which the mortar tube fitted (minus its usual firing foot?).  The picture hints at this.  There were several patterns of 2" mortar, but 3 were specifically for the Universal Carrier: pre-WW2 Mks II* and II** and later Mk VII.  The lever visible on this side at the base is almost certainly an elevation lock: the firing trigger lever was on the other side.  As the tube unscrewed from the base unit, I wonder if the Carrier version actually had a different base section which fitted the bracket.  The round hole in the bracket with 4 surrounding holes (for pegs/pins?) suggests that a traversing base fitted there.  Which seems like a complex solution for a simple problem.  But I haven't managed to find any pictures better than this one.

  

 

[MIKKAR]

Thank You, Das! That’s one more piece to the puzzle! I suppose I’ll be getting the Evergreen styrene strip and rod out soon for an attempt at modeling the thing. Regards, MK