DOD Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Hi there Hope someone can help with a way to correct this. Just put on the booms and noticed that the port tail is angled outwards by about 5 degrees when looking head on. It fits in fine at the engine. Rather frustrating to say the least! Starboard is fine. It was not obvious when putting the booms together but really obvious now they are in place! Anyone else come across this and if so how did you fix it? Any suggestions much appreciated. Cheers David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Is the horizontal already glued, too? That's going to be hard to fix without doing some damage at this point, but it certainly might be retrievable, if you're willing to go through the pain! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOD Posted December 7, 2021 Author Share Posted December 7, 2021 53 minutes ago, gingerbob said: Is the horizontal already glued, too? That's going to be hard to fix without doing some damage at this point, but it certainly might be retrievable, if you're willing to go through the pain! No, I spotted it as I was about to attach the horizontal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 I wouldn't guarantee this, but sometimes glue can be weakened if frozen. I'm not sure that this can be true for solvent type glues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seawinder Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 2 hours ago, DOD said: Hi there Hope someone can help with a way to correct this. Just put on the booms and noticed that the port tail is angled outwards by about 5 degrees when looking head on. It fits in fine at the engine. Rather frustrating to say the least! Starboard is fine. It was not obvious when putting the booms together but really obvious now they are in place! Anyone else come across this and if so how did you fix it? Any suggestions much appreciated. Cheers David Sorry to hear that. The Hasegawa kit has the same issue, only it's the starboard tail. If you're careful, you may be able to immerse the boom in hot (boiling) water and flex the tail to vertical. It's easy to overdo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 I would suggest measuring between the upper center lines of both booms starting at the leading edge of the wings back to the leading edge of the fins were they meet the booms to determine that the two booms are straight and parallel to each other. Not sure what you meant by the tail; is the vertical fin/rudder canted to the right from the vertical when viewed from head on? When viewed from above, is the vertical fin/rudder parallel to the line of flight, or is it angled to the right? Next question- when the horizontal stabilizer is in place, is it straight across and isn't low at one end? If the horizontal stab is true, and the fin/rudder is straight when viewed from above, then the fin/rudder might be warped slightly, causing the outward cant. Is the fin/rudder canted out only above the horizontal stab, or is the entire fin/rudder canted? If the cant is only above the horizontal stab, then you can make a horizontal cut above the stabilizer and re-cement the fin/rudder so it is perpendicular. If the cant is the entire fin/rudder above and below the stab, then it almost sounds like the boom itself is twisted slightly, but I would think that would throw the horizontal stab out of alignment. Hope this helps- glad I don't have to wrestle with this one, but wish you success! Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 I've had the same thing happening to, of all things, a Spitfire. Not once, but twice. I believe I have traced it back to the gluing of the fuselage halves, where a small misalignment caused a significant cant to the fin. I solved it by ungluing the fuselage using thinners for enamels applied liberally over the joints. It takes a while, but may be worth the trouble. Since then I have constructed a jig, as I do a lot of these little fellas, that helps align the fuselage correctly. HTH Finn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOD Posted December 7, 2021 Author Share Posted December 7, 2021 Thanks to all who have responded. I have been examining it again in response to everyone's comments and it's as if the whole fin/rudder is twisted. Inserting the horizontal into the slot and it goes up at an angle confirming the whole fin/rudder is twisted. I shall try the suggestion of hot water first. Failing this, it looks as if the fin/rudder will have to be cut off and realigned. I will update with results in case someone has the same issue. Thanks again to all. Cheers David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 I would caution you about starting with hot water- my personal experience is that if it doesn't work "right", the results can render the parts far worse due to distortion. Since you haven't attached the horizontal, you might be able to take the twist out in another way. First of all, I'd have a careful examination of that boom- does the length of the boom indicate a gradual "twist", or is it more that the fin itself is askew? Is the fin/rudder "straight" from top to bottom, rather than warped? Perhaps depending on what you find, and also on how well you think it can be done, I see two options: split the halves as far forward as you deem necessary, and re-glue with an emphasis on taking out that twist, or, as you say, cut the fin and re-attach to fix its alignment. In either case, you may be able to use the horizontal to "self-jig" that vertical (or the aft part of the boom)- with horizontal through both sides, it'll help brace the vertical. Watch out, too, for the possibility of "spring back". Good luck! bob 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 21 hours ago, DOD said: and it's as if the whole fin/rudder is twisted. Inserting the horizontal into the slot and it goes up at an angle confirming the whole fin/rudder is twisted. It's a noted problem. see here https://paulbudzik.com/tools-techniques/P-38 Alignment/academy_p-38_alignment.html which is a bit late for you.... 21 hours ago, DOD said: I shall try the suggestion of hot water first. Failing this, it looks as if the fin/rudder will have to be cut off and realigned. I'd suggest now the "easiest" solution is to cut the through the boom at some point, possibly in front of the fin, add a core to allow the fin to rotate, and then add the horizontal stabiliser. You may want to make a jig for this, to try to get everything straight and level, see the link above for ideas, though you may find other alignment problems doing this. You will possibly have a step in the boom to sand/fill, but this maybe the least destructive option. Otherwise you are looking at splitting the boom parts and then realigning them. HTH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 @Troy Smith, Good find! I don't have the 1/48 kit, as it's not my preferred scale, but I did check my three Academy 1/72 kits, and there was no misalignment or warpage on any of the boom assemblies. Guess we modelers in the Gentlemen's Scale dodged the bullet...this time! Mike 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOD Posted December 8, 2021 Author Share Posted December 8, 2021 3 hours ago, Troy Smith said: I'd suggest now the "easiest" solution is to cut the through the boom at some point, possibly in front of the fin, add a core to allow the fin to rotate, and then add the horizontal stabiliser. You may want to make a jig for this, to try to get everything straight and level, see the link above for ideas, though you may find other alignment problems doing this. You will possibly have a step in the boom to sand/fill, but this maybe the least destructive option. Otherwise you are looking at splitting the boom parts and then realigning them. HTH Hi Troy, Thanks for the reference. As you say a bit late for me! However, I was coming to the same conclusion as you and cut off the fin/rudder. Using the horizontal for support then I should be able to get a suitable finish. It may not be mm perfect but as long as it looks ok. Thanks again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 The only idea: Hairdryer hot air! Some gives a blast aft of the wing and you turn softly. Had the same issue. Hasegawa. This is my way correcting such a bend or twisted plastic issue. Happy modelling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOD Posted December 19, 2021 Author Share Posted December 19, 2021 Hi all, Finally got the correction done (leaky roof caused a bit of a distraction!). I tried the hot water suggestion on some spare bits but could not get it right, so cut off in front of the boom trying for the panel line though I was bit off.. Inserted a peg for support. Set up a 'jig' (bits of blue tack!) to hold it in place then using tube glue for the horizontal and spuegoo/glue for the join put it back together. The tube glue gives more time to get it into the correct position and the goo a filler. After setting, sand down and rescribe the panel line. Lost a bit of rivet detail at the panel line. Perhaps the cut should have been a bit further forward. Anyway, I now have a vertical tail fin! Here is a series of photos I took. First shows the angle it was out by. Thanks again to all who offered suggestions. Cheers David 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 Congratulations, and thanks for reporting back. Leaky roofs are NOT pleasant. After some blown-off shingle incidents, I now cringe every time we have high winds- which of course are often accompanied by/followed by heavy rain. bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 2 hours ago, DOD said: First shows the angle it was out by. Man, that puppy was 'way out! Very nice correction, though- thanks for sharing the process. Looks like it's going to be smooth sailing, now! Might have missed it, but do you have a scheme and markings picked out? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOD Posted December 19, 2021 Author Share Posted December 19, 2021 4 hours ago, 72modeler said: Man, that puppy was 'way out! Very nice correction, though- thanks for sharing the process. Looks like it's going to be smooth sailing, now! Might have missed it, but do you have a scheme and markings picked out? Mike F5 E Lightning 'Lanakila' No '333', 13th Photo Sqdn, 7th Photo Group. Mount Farm 1944. Using Aeromaster decal set. Cheers David 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 17 hours ago, DOD said: F5 E Lightning 'Lanakila' No '333', 13th Photo Sqdn, 7th Photo Group. Mount Farm 1944. Using Aeromaster decal set. Cheers David Going to be pretty! Yellow main wheel cover? Be sure to check the 'sit' of the kit, as it seems in most P-38 photos, they sit tail low...I am thinking maybe because there is so little prop ground clearance, crew chiefs pump up the nose strut oleo to get more ground clearance- just a guess on my part, but as in your photo, she is sitting tail down. FWIW, here;s my favorite P-38J- 'Mama's Boy' from the 20th FG. Colorized photo, but you get the idea. Can't wait to see your RFI photos! Mike http://wingstracksguns.com/picture-gallery/colorized-pictures/american-aircraft/fighters/lockheed-p-38j-lightning-mamas-boy/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOD Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, 72modeler said: Going to be pretty! Yellow main wheel cover? Be sure to check the 'sit' of the kit, as it seems in most P-38 photos, they sit tail low...I am thinking maybe because there is so little prop ground clearance, crew chiefs pump up the nose strut oleo to get more ground clearance- just a guess on my part, but as in your photo, she is sitting tail down. FWIW, here;s my favorite P-38J- 'Mama's Boy' from the 20th FG. Colorized photo, but you get the idea. Can't wait to see your RFI photos! Mike http://wingstracksguns.com/picture-gallery/colorized-pictures/american-aircraft/fighters/lockheed-p-38j-lightning-mamas-boy/ I am not that prolific so it will be a little while before photos are ready! The sit will not be an issue in my case, though, as it will be modelled in flight. Thanks for the link. Cheers David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Next time use a hairdryer! This works with twisted or bent parts. Water not! Happy modelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 19 hours ago, 72modeler said: the 'sit' No, oleos have a certain pressure that they're supposed to be kept at. The load of the airplane can be a signficant factor- for example, on a "normal" P-38 is it fully loaded with ammo? There's also a certain amount of friction, and I've seen cases where an aircraft might "stop" nose high, and with a little bit of rocking (push up and down at the tail) there's enough to overcome the friction and the nose drops some. Now my conjecture, at least somewhat: imagine the aircraft taxiing to parking spot, the crew chief gives the "stop" signal, the pilot jabs the brakes, which puts a "forward/downward" force on the nose, compressing the oleo a bit, so it "rebounds", pushing the nose up, then all is still. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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