Late-war Fw 190 painting observations

[Graham Boak]

But are these causes or symptoms?  It is a not a new idea: research into the influence of aluminium have so far proven fruitless.  As unfortunately have most other routes on enquiry.

 

As for multiple views by scientists: you will generally find that these represent one view held by the majority of researchers and three separate views held by single individuals,  In the interest of "balance" it is important to the media to present each view as equally representative, which they are not.  .In the UK, and elsewhere, we have suffered sad fatalities as a result of one rogue researcher with a bee in his bonnet about vaccinations, some poor techniques, and the support of the gutter press.  It is always more exciting to present something new and exciting that contradicts expert opinion than something that has been worked on by many for years and exposed to critical peer review.

 

Which is not to deny that in certain areas there are indeed different views held by different groups of  scientists, and certainly cancer and dementia research are among those fields.  This is partly because such problems have multiple causes, with different possible approaches.  The one thing certain to be wrong is a claim to have found The Truth.

[dov]

Hallo Graham Boak

Since I am no medic, I can not answer the question ptoperly.

But aluminum is present! If it is the cause or not? I do not know.

Logically I say, if the aluminum dosis taken a lifelong is reduced, it could not be there!

With other words, if the sick person would not have absorbed so much aluminum during the years, the illness would never have occured.

 

Just thinking logically is, what we all need, also in pandemic times!

In pandemic we operate with math tools, the same as in radiation research or the same as in kinetic gas theory.

This is my field.

In mathematics you only have to pay attention to the right boundary conditions.

 

In logic you have only one enemy: to avoid circular conclusions.

Circular conclusions can never be recognized by the person in question who made this circular argument.

Analog, a group or comunity that made a circular conclusion, just as little.

To do preventing this, you always need asymmetrical people who had nothing to do with the decision-making process.

 

In history: Bertrand Russel vs. Frege disputation.

 

 

As example I went through several flight mnanuals with pilots, to dedect such issues.

It really works well, but this is a level of discussion, you need proper skills for it.

 

Happy modelling

 

[Jochen Barett]

Please fellow BMs grant me a wish for Christmas!

 

Let's seperate the sidestep on the dangers of aluminum (and discussion wether it should be aluminum oder almuminium) to a seperate thread, maybe in the chat https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/37-chat/ (talking about a German plane it has to be "Aluminium" starting with a capital "a").

 

Discussion on late war German Luftwaffe paint is far too important to be watered down with health issues!

 

Let's just concentrate on the official drawing not mentioning "RLM 84" (or 83) with a single syllable!

 

Let us fight vigorously (but without any insults) about RLM 99 being grey, beige, a lighter shade of beige, sandbrown, greygreen, yellow-green or whatever in that year depending upon the manufacturer (as I was told by my uncle's second wife's daughter's haircutter's grandfather's friend who knew some guy who flew the 262 in April '45)!

 

PLEASE!

[Rolls-Royce]

On 12/7/2021 at 7:22 AM, MDriskill said:

Back to the question at hand - does anyone know details of how Lionoil-like sheet metal shop coatings were (or were not) used for aircraft manufacturing during the war, outside of the US? Technical details like this can be very interesting, and relevant to modeling in unanticipated ways.

The Japanese used the clear blue-green "aotake" coating on internal (and some external) surfaces of their aircraft. In some cases aotake appears to have been applied several times during a part's production - it has been found sandwiched between riveted assemblies - and was sometimes oversprayed with the external paint finish.

As far as its having been used as extensively as Lionoil apparently was to protect aluminum sheet, I haven't yet seen any evidence of that.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Rolls-Royce

[Bozothenutter]

if this is the same stuff.......there is red, green, yellow, and blue to choose from...

 

https://coatings.specialchem.com/searchsites/searchproducts?q=lionol

 

[MDriskill]

Thanks for these most interesting notes!

 

It's my understanding that Lionoil was a simple varnish, which while giving some degree of corrosion protection via sealing of the surface, was not considered (by the USAAF at least) as equivalent to more permanent zinc chromate-based coatings.

 

If anyone has knowledge of how aluminum shop coats were (or were not) used in the German air industry, or alternative ideas for the photos in the OP, that would be very helpful. I'd love for my semi-educated guess to be proven wrong (that's how you learn things), but the chat hasn't moved much beyond being told I'm too stupid to understand "tricks of the light," LOL. 

 

And of course, everyone knows its absurd to think there were natural-metal Fw 190's out there.

 

I confess I don't really know which type of material aotake was.

Edited December 13, 2021 by MDriskill

[Rolls-Royce]

31 minutes ago, MDriskill said:

Thanks for these most interesting notes!

 

It's my understanding that Lionoil was a simple varnish, and while giving some degree of corrosion protection via sealing of the surface, was not considered (by the USAAF at least) as a substitute for more permanent zinc chromate-based coatings.

 

I confess I don't really know which type of material aotake was.

It was a lacquer.