Airfix 1/72 Hurricanes x 2

[Broadway]

Lost my mojo over the summer, a series of mishaps culminating in a Airfix FW-190 which is now consigned to the dustbin of doom.  After completing a a 1/72 Airfix Typhoon and Spitfire to a reasonable standard I feeling a bit happier about my builds. Due to a memory like a sieve I'm hoping a wip will help me remember my thinking.

 

This is what I'm starting with:

Sprue shots, the started set does not the final sprue with the early parts so L1592 does not include the straight aerial mast.

I also bought the Xtradecal sheet X72193, to use on the starter set - I'll decide on which one after I checking the schemes.

 

[ModelingEdmontonian]

Yay for more Hurricanes in 1/72! 

[TonyOD]

17 hours ago, ModelingEdmontonian said:

Yay for more Hurricanes in 1/72! 

 

I'll second that. I need to do one soon...

[Broadway]

I want to do one without a keel with the 2 blade propeller, the other 3 blade with a keel. OOB, but I will fix the fabric wing.

 

I think L1568/S of "B" flight  73 sqn is OK for the 2 blade/no keel, Unfortunately the Xtradecal sheet red is out of register, but I can use the KM Z roundels.

 

For one with a keel I'd have to go with N2319 and put up with the red being slightly out, it's not so noticeable with the larger red centre to the roundel.

 

I've made a start with the wings, as you can see I forgot two of the ejector pin holes in the wheel wells.

 

Some work on the wing trailing root as usual.

 

 

[Troy Smith]

54 minutes ago, Broadway said:

Unfortunately the Xtradecal sheet red is out of register, but I can use the KM Z roundels.

 

Both Xtradecal and Airfix get the red wrong,  it should be the brick-red,  not pillar box red.   

54 minutes ago, Broadway said:

For one with a keel I'd have to go with N2319 and put up with the red being slightly out, it's not so noticeable with the larger red centre to the roundel.

N2319 is metal winged AFAIK.   Xtradecal are not noted for careful research

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235026556-sammy-allards-hurricane-n2319-prop-and-windscreen-question/#elControls_2817634_menu

 

 

The problem is "Hurricane Mk.I"  covers a large range of possible variations,  fabric or metal wing, early curved screen without/with armour, standard lower straight screen,  SIX different props/spinners, (and eventually 7) 5/4 spoke wheel,  introduction of starboard access hatch,  straight pole aerial vs pointed aerial, with tag with wire for TR9D, no tag and no wire for the TR1134 set, IIF wires   and the not  plus all the really early features,  nose ring without bulges and instrument venturi, ring and bead sight vs reflector sight,  kidney exhausts, strake vs no strake, 

 

If you are interested enough to buy a book, get the Wingleader Photo Archive, only covers the Mk.I 

https://www.wingleader.co.uk/shop/hurricane-mki-wpa3

 

Note the recent Valiant Wings Airframe and Miniature book is deeply flawed and  unless you know the subject, useless. If you know the subject, it's got a few useful photos and drawings.  🙄

 

HTH

[Tweener]

I just hope a decal company someday decides to print more 43 Squadron Hurricane Schemes that aren't B/W under-wing. 43 only used the things for 3 years! Unfortunate to see the state of the molds on this one honestly, I spent as much time thinning down and fairing in the wings on mine as I did painting it, and made the mistake of trying to use Vallejo Model Air Dark Green by brush..!

[Broadway]

13 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

Both Xtradecal and Airfix get the red wrong,  it should be the brick-red,  not pillar box red.   

 

N2319 is metal winged AFAIK.   Xtradecal are not noted for careful research

 

Obviously I didn't realise about the colours until I had a close look at them. I wasn't sure when the duller reds came in, but was assumed the KM Z roundels would probably be OK for L1599. I had thought the duller reds came in later, but have just found a suggestion that, in general, all camouflage aircraft had the the duller colours. I can sort out some duller red roundels.

 

13 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235026556-sammy-allards-hurricane-n2319-prop-and-windscreen-question/#elControls_2817634_menu

 

The problem is "Hurricane Mk.I"  covers a large range of possible variations,  fabric or metal wing, early curved screen without/with armour, standard lower straight screen,  SIX different props/spinners, (and eventually 7) 5/4 spoke wheel,  introduction of starboard access hatch,  straight pole aerial vs pointed aerial, with tag with wire for TR9D, no tag and no wire for the TR1134 set, IIF wires   and the not  plus all the really early features,  nose ring without bulges and instrument venturi, ring and bead sight vs reflector sight,  kidney exhausts, strake vs no strake, 

I found this for L1568

 

Kidney exhausts, no strake, I'm not sure about the windscreen, but it looks frameless. Pole aerial so I was assuming a single wire, I would guess no starboard hatch, nose ring with bulges?

 

I have to rethink the other one as the national markings on N2319 are non-standard.

 

 

[Graham Boak]

I would suggest that this was still to original build standard with a single piece nose-ring.

[Broadway]

2 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

I would suggest that this was still to original build standard with a single piece nose-ring.

 

Is this the single piece nose ring?

L1763 according to the label

[Troy Smith]

9 minutes ago, Broadway said:

Is this the single piece nose ring?

yes.  Early Canadian machine, or the pattern aircraft for the CCF.   @dogsbody is up on Canadian production.

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, Broadway said:

Kidney exhausts, no strake, I'm not sure about the windscreen, but it looks frameless.

ealy non armoured screen at this point,  no seat armour either.

4 hours ago, Broadway said:

Pole aerial so I was assuming a single wire, I would guess no starboard hatch,

yes

4 hours ago, Broadway said:

nose ring with bulges?

has the instrument venturi.  Not sure when bulges came in, but was also retrofitted two piece nose ring, as older planes were upgraded to current standards. 

4 hours ago, Broadway said:

I have to rethink the other one as the national markings on N2319 are non-standard.

N2319 was photographed after the yellow ring and tail stripes were introduced in early May 1940

 

If you have not seen it/read it,  this is still essential overview

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Hawker-Hurricane

 

 

[dogsbody]

6 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

yes.  Early Canadian machine, or the pattern aircraft for the CCF.   @dogsbody is up on Canadian production.

 

 

Hurricane 314, posted above by @Broadway, is a Hawkers-built Hurc that was purchased, with 20 other Hurricanes, by Canada and delivered in early 1939, then shipped back to England, in May 1940, along with No. 1 Squadron RCAF.

 

 

 

Chris

[Graham Boak]

The bulges came in with the Merlin III, because of the fittings for the vacuum pump (replacing the venturi) and control unit for the constant speed prop.  However the actual kit wasn't immediately fitted - it wasn't needed for the variable pitch DH prop and the Rotol constant speed prop was running late.  I believe it was the first batch of 50 that received the Merlin Mk.I, though this should be confirmed, and the one-piece ring was removed as this batch was updated.

[Broadway]

3 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

N2319 was photographed after the yellow ring and tail stripes were introduced in early May 1940

 

If you have not seen it/read it,  this is still essential overview

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Camouflage-Markings/Hawker-Hurricane

 

Meant to say N2358 had non-standard fuselage roundels and more difficult to replace from decal sheets. My reading of the reference, was that Type A were normally 25" and when the yellow was added to make them type A.1 it became 35". Both N2317 and N2358 are shown as "35" Type A roundels with N2368 having a narrow yellow ring added.

 

 

Back to the starter set it would seem that the only RAF aircraft that can be confidently modelled from the contents of the starter set are L1592 on Horse Guards in DFS or as displayed science museum in TLS.

 

 There are 2 Finnish Hurricanes on the sheet, not sure yet, but I think I can do one of those fairly safely.

[Troy Smith]

15 minutes ago, Broadway said:

Meant to say N2358 had non-standard fuselage roundels and more difficult to replace from decal sheets. My reading of the reference, was that Type A were normally 25" and when the yellow was added to make them type A.1 it became 35". Both N2317 and N2358 are shown as "35" Type A roundels with N2368 having a narrow yellow ring added.

OK, 

several points

N2538 has the standard factory scheme, and this had 35 inch A fuselage roundels.  25 inch fuselage roundels result from 35" A1 type with yellow ring painted out, and are the sort of thing seen on L**** serials.

 

Other points on N2538

Fabric wing

Standard Armoured windscreen

SPITFIRE type De Havilland spinner, these are seen on early N****, repropped L**** have the DH Hurricane units.  DH Spitfire units are reasonably rare, but do turn up in some interesting places, specifically, all the Finnish and Romanian export Hurricanes have the Spitfire unit.  These can be obtained from various boxing of the Aiorfix Spitfire I/II/Va, as they have alternate props.

Distinctive oil stain on bottom of UC door

 

the other side of N2538/Z is 3rd plane in photo below,  

 

22 minutes ago, Broadway said:

There are 2 Finnish Hurricanes on the sheet, not sure yet, but I think I can do one of those fairly safely.

Again, Xtradecal  and couldn't find with "both hands and a map"....

Sorry, being flippant. Finnish Hurricanes are complicated by having both fabric and metal wings, and which had which is debated. 

From memory, both are well documented and do have fabric wings. 

 

This reminded me that @Graham Boak  first very very kindly sent me the leftover of the Xtradecal sheet,  and no I recheck, I then failed to acknowledge arrival and express my thanks for those and the Ventura sheet added as well, so I will do so here.  Thank you, and my apologies for the rudeness of this passing me by.  

This is also how I know that the red is the bright pre camouflage red,  the blue is also the pre camouflage colour.  (note, in the photo above with the colour chips and Vallejo 'Light Rust' I had hand painted the Airfix red centres with  Light Rust, if you have a clear coat of the decals you can wipe off the excess /slips easily)

 

After some searching, I turned up the sheet, and refreshed my memory,  Ah, Xtradecal and research, strangers that pass in the night.   

They have the 6 inch high serials as used on the L**** and N**** batches, but just make them smaller, as the image of N2358 and N2319 show, while being 6 inch high, they the same width as the 8 inch, so are quite squat in comparison. 

Also, just to make things really simple and not all confusing, fabric and metal wings were mixed together from when they were introduced, and are mixed up through the later L**** and early N**** production....   there are records of some, but not all

 

38 minutes ago, Broadway said:

Back to the starter set it would seem that the only RAF aircraft that can be confidently modelled from the contents of the starter set are L1592 on Horse Guards in DFS or as displayed science museum in TLS.

No, there are other options,  eg 

L1926

 

interesting example,  as OP-M here, is also L1926,   note how the L1926 has been repainted when with 310 Sq, either from it being painted oput fro security, and then restated, or maybe from fabric replacement. 

 

there is also photo of L1926 taken in 1941, with 55 OTU,  in DFS nosed over, still with fabric wings.

see here for that one  https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yXkpDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT455&lpg=PT455&dq=hawker+hurricane+l1926+55+otu&source=bl&ots=C3thSLNEaU&sig=ACfU3U09ztj_Lg3kKtmM9DUYBw8QTKVX6w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjm45Ov4tL0AhVQKewKHUqFD_cQ6AF6BAgqEAM#v=onepage&q=hawker hurricane l1926 55 otu&f=false

 

54 minutes ago, Broadway said:

or as displayed science museum in TLS.

Airfix got the codes wrong, as AFAIK, the restoration based the codes on the image of KW-W,  L1829

 

This could be done from the starter set if not too worried about the code letters, and the serial may well have been over painted. 

 

@Broadway, sorry, you wanted a easy build..... 

 

What is not widely understood is how many variations are possible in a Mk.I Hurricane!!

[Broadway]

50 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

Airfix got the codes wrong, as AFAIK, the restoration based the codes on the image of KW-W,  L1829

 

I didn't mean that the current scheme is correct, but that box scheme can be used to model as currently displayed or are there other things wrong with the scheme. 

 

I looked at the photo of N2356 I thought it had the early exhaust.

 

 

The original intention was to live with the spinner and wheels for this build but try and pick a subject that fitted what I had available on the decal sheets I have or and the 2 boxes.

[Troy Smith]

15 minutes ago, Broadway said:

The original intention was to live with the spinner and wheels for this build but try and pick a subject that fitted what I had available on the decal sheets I have or and the 2 boxes.

Of course, your models, your choice.   

If you add the wheels and prop with forethought, you could always swap later if you fancied it.

Heck,  I see all sorts of 'liberties' taken on Facebook groups....  any markings on any base Hurricane kit, I see a lot of Airfix fabric wing as other versions...   I do get that Hurricanes all 'look alike'   ..... though sometimes only after a couple of deep breaths....  

 

Here's builders ask and are interested in these details,   hope some of the rambling has been of use.

cheers

T

[Broadway]

Well. I lost my modelling space and it all went into the garage - room now restored so I am back in business. Apart from the Hannants transfer sheet it seems to be all there, I have probably stashed it in a "safe" place - when it will turn up is anybody's guess. I thought I had misplaced the keelless Hurricane as well, but eventually remembered I had put it into the airing cupboard to dry out some filler on the nose!

 

I managed to break one of the canopies, but I should be able to make an ARMA Hobby one fit after adjusting the dog kennel. I picked up Hurristory cheaply from Amazon so can raid a closed canopy from there. 

 

 

 

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, Broadway said:

I managed to break one of the canopies, but I should be able to make an ARMA Hobby one fit after adjusting the dog kennel. I picked up Hurristory cheaply from Amazon so can raid a closed canopy from there. 

The Airfix kit made their spine to scale, so their canopies are too high, as are the windscreens... IMO the most noticeable fault in the kit,   so a closed Arma hood likely won't match up, but an open one would likely work. 

 

HTH

[Broadway]

1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

The Airfix kit made their spine to scale, so their canopies are too high, as are the windscreens... IMO the most noticeable fault in the kit,   so a closed Arma hood likely won't match up, but an open one would likely work. 

 

HTH

 

The open one is too wide, so is not a good fit. I will have another look, when I get a new battery for my micrometer I will check to see how they measure up.

[stevehnz]

The couple of these I've built, I just sanded the sides of the dog box till the canopy fitted. Once it is in place the slimmed dog box is not at all obvious.

 

To my eye any way.

Steve.

[Broadway]

22 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

The Airfix kit made their spine to scale, so their canopies are too high, as are the windscreens... IMO the most noticeable fault in the kit,   so a closed Arma hood likely won't match up, but an open one would likely work. 

 

 

13 hours ago, stevehnz said:

The couple of these I've built, I just sanded the sides of the dog box till the canopy fitted. Once it is in place the slimmed dog box is not at all obvious.

 

The perils of having decided that it had to be a closed canopy, I didn't consider the open option - I'll just have to live with the scrappy cockpit that I was expecting to hide

[Zephyr91]

Just discovered this thread as I'm fairly new to all this.   Am soaking up info and skills (watching at least) and will have a proper go soon.  Hurricanes are very near the top of my todo list.  I knew there were a lot of combinations of possible "fits" but some of the discussion here i find a bit frightening - but enjoying it nonetheless. 

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Rob

[Broadway]

On 10/13/2022 at 7:41 PM, Zephyr91 said:

Just discovered this thread as I'm fairly new to all this.   Am soaking up info and skills (watching at least) and will have a proper go soon.  Hurricanes are very near the top of my todo list.  I knew there were a lot of combinations of possible "fits" but some of the discussion here i find a bit frightening - but enjoying it nonetheless. 

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Rob

 

Making a bit of a mess of the early one - maybe I should have started afresh, but will plough on regardless.

[Broadway]

Closed and open ARMA Hobby canopies look like this.

 

 

 

I messed up the open canopy shot as it no longer fitted after I had filed the dog kennel to reduce its height and afterwards filled the canopy cut out. The open one is certainly a better fit as it is roughly .5 mm to short.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Broadway