72modeler Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Is it just me, or are the scuff plates on the soon-to-be-released Arma kit too wide and stand too proud of the gear door skin? The Allison Mustangs as well as the P-51B/C inner fairing doors had depressions that ran diagonally, whereas the depressions on the P-51D inner doors ran vertically, which Arma has depicted correctly, as well as the location of the door actuator rams on the front of the door, versus the back of the door on the D model. I looked at a lot of period photos of P-51B/C's and the plates sure don't look that big or thick, I did find a discussion on the P-51 SAG regarding why the inner fairing doors were not painted with YZC or interior green at the factory. The inner and outer door skins were spot welded, and you cannot spot weld painted surfaces. That is why the doors were unpainted aluminum so the stainless steel scuff plates could be welded onto the door skin. The scuff plates were oftentimes painted in ZCY or interior green after prolonged use or overhaul, as seen in many postwar color photos. Curious as to why Arma made the scuff plates so thick and so large; especially when you consider all of the minute details they seem to have researched and gotten right. Perhaps one of the preserved 1:1 scale examples they examined had non-standard scuff plates on the inner fairing doors? Certainly not a deal breaker- I was just wondering if anybody else noticed this or am I nuts? (Don't go there, @corsaircorp!) Mike The Arma kit inner fairing doors: https://www.armahobby.com/70038-p-51-b-c-mustang-expert-set.html Original period P-51B inner fairing doors: https://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/1349632/nl551e-private-north-american-p-51b-mustang/ On this period photo, the scuff plate does seem to be wider than that seen on the D, but sure isn't as thick as Arma hasw molded it. https://wingstracksguns.com/p-51b-mustang-texas-ranger-43-6698/ 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paramedic Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Yeah I agree, by the looks of it, a little too thick or "raised". Kit looks fun though.. I only build 1/48 (or bigger) - but if I was a 72nd scale modeller, I would get it.. Nice subjects too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 38 minutes ago, 72modeler said: Curious as to why Arma made the scuff plates so thick and so large; Ever hear of mould limitations? While I agree that it's unfortunate that this little hair is found in the soup, it seems that the rest is a very big advance on previous offerings - Hasegawa, Academy, KP ... you get it. The truth is that the sides of the fuselage is way too thick, scalewise, and so is the rest of the kit. What matters is, if the general outline agrees with the look and sit of the real one, so that, when built, no-one can say "It's too short, long, wide, narrow, high or low". Instead they admire your model and exclaims "That a B model Mustang!" I certainly need to have one to fondle and build. Then we will see if other examples shall join it. /Finn PS: I always thought that the scuff plates were riveted, not welded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silberpferd Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Looks like they borrowed a couple of details from the "D" door... Laurent 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDriskill Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) Even though I'm not a "Mustang guy," to my eye that's the best-looking P-51, and I'm pretty fired up for that kit. Obviously a significant leap forward in the state of the little P-51 art. BUT...it never fails, seems like even the worst old kit will have at least ONE detail that's better than the latest-and-greatest one, right...? So perhaps you could steal the doors from one of the Hasegawa / Revell / Academy / KP kits you are about to toss in the trash! 😄 Edited December 9, 2021 by MDriskill 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Have one on back-order and looking forward to getting it as it seems to be to the same high standard as their previous offerings, just hope they'll also do the P-51D plus a decent Tempest V and state of the art Spitfire 1 or XII. Regards Colin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbolt Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Like Finn says I think it's just the limit of the scale. Going too fine you run the risk of it not coming out in the final product. Could they have made it finer? Looking at the Eduard 1/48th P-51 possibly, but they may of had to use a high pressure which would probably make the kit more expensive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 2 hours ago, silberpferd said: Looks like they borrowed a couple of details from the "D" door... Looks like the No.11 and sanding stick actually will have something to work on with this kit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted December 2, 2021 Author Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) Please don't get me wrong- I'm not complaining, as have four kits pre-ordered! Inner fairing door possible accuracy issues notwithstanding, it's light years ahead of the Monogram, Hasegawa, Academy, and KP kits! I pulled the doors from all of my 1/72 Allison and Merlin razorback kits, and the ones in the Hasegawa P-51B/C are the closest to original- they lack scuff plates, which I will most likely do with lead foil or thick decal stock, as either media can be snuggled down to conform with the underlying depressions. The old Monogram kit doors are next best, and the Frog Mustang Mk 1 are very good, but the depressions run almost vertically. Thanks to all for posting the additional photos; you can't be too careful, as some of the razorback P-51B/C restorations used P-51D gear struts and doors- most likely because they are readily available, and the D's had much stronger uplocks fitted in the wheel bay, not the door, as with the earlier versions. The slight difference in the contours of the outer door skins between the B and the D could most likely be hammered out with an English wheel. Re riveting vs spot welding the scuff plates- according to the P-51 SIG, they were spot welded to the door skins at the factory, but most likely were riveted if replacement plates needed to be fitted due to damage, or in modern restorations. Like all of you, I am eagerly awaiting getting my paws on the Arma kit- an accurate P-51B/C has been such a long time coming, despite several serious efforts- now, if Arma could grace us with an accurate Spit XII, then I will be a happy camper! Mike I can finally model 352nd FG ace William Whisner's P-51B, "Princess Elizabeth" In my opinion, the prettiest one of them all! Edited December 3, 2021 by 72modeler corrected spelling 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackG Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 That detail on the door is what, at most 1/8 inch thick on the actual thing? That is 0.044mm in 72nd scale, which is not even standard thickness for PE brass sheet detail, and even then there would be the trouble of obtaining those complex curves. I like the idea of foil or decal after sanding down, but even just masking and painting a different colour would do. regards, Jack 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweener Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 5 hours ago, fishplanebeer said: Have one on back-order and looking forward to getting it as it seems to be to the same high standard as their previous offerings, just hope they'll also do the P-51D plus a decent Tempest V and state of the art Spitfire 1 or XII. Regards Colin. Airfix did announce a Tempest V... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishplanebeer Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 The Airfix Tempest is now due next summer and not 2023 (according to what they tell me) but their quality is never on a par with Arma, Special Hobby & Eduard so I guess it will have to do until these players decide to make the definitive kit along the lines of the SH 'Emils'. That's not to say the Airfix kit won't be good, and possibly better than the recent KP releases, but it's just that we know these three manufacturers would make something superior. Regards Colin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsaircorp Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 I promise, I'll not going there... Unless they did a 1/48 one.... My FB page is flooded with this Arma Mustang... Really look like a Grrrreeeeaaat Kit !! Sincerely. CC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steh2o Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 Yes it seems like the scuff plate needs to be slightly extended at the bottom and slightly less at the top, and the small part of the rib underneath (In front) filled as it is not visible. Other details need to be adjusted too. Maybe you can better choose to let the door closed as is in the vast majority of period photographs, that will solve easily the matter ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steh2o Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 (edited) Ok not the vast majority, but a good half of them! If you want a relatively easy way to adjust it: cut away the part in front of the scuff plate with a sharp razor blade, add a styrene strip to the front of the door and level it with the scuff plate and door wall. When happy with the shape, cut away from the cut-before front element what you added to the main element, then glue the two parts again together, then fill and sand the external wall. Edited December 4, 2021 by steh2o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steh2o Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 And -ho- eaglecals for "cripes a mighty" are ready on my desktop 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted December 4, 2021 Author Share Posted December 4, 2021 26 minutes ago, steh2o said: And -ho- eaglecals for "cripes a mighty" are ready on my desktop Yep- she was a beauty! (If I don't do "Princess Elizabeth"...) https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=400552.15 Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Darn it, looks unbuildable now folks. Best if all copies of this kit in circulation are sent to me - for safe keeping. Justin 2 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 27 minutes ago, Bedders said: Darn it, looks unbuildable now folks. Best if all copies of this kit in circulation are sent to me - for safe keeping. Justin Good idea - responsible citizens need to make sure these kits don't fall into the wrong hands. I don't have much storage space left, but LMK if you need me to take some as well. John 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted December 6, 2021 Author Share Posted December 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Bedders said: Best if all copies of this kit in circulation are sent to me Nice try, Justin! Mike 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfman Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 On 02/12/2021 at 17:37, fishplanebeer said: Have one on back-order and looking forward to getting it as it seems to be to the same high standard as their previous offerings, just hope they'll also do the P-51D plus a decent Tempest V and state of the art Spitfire 1 or XII. Regards Colin. Spitfire XII , yes please ! Wulfman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalkeEins Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 On 12/3/2021 at 12:19 AM, fishplanebeer said: we know these three manufacturers would make something superior. ..and at least x2 in terms of price. £20 for a 72nd scale single-engine fighter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 Found this on Hyperscale http://armahobbynews.pl/en/blog/2021/12/15/p-51-b-c-mustang-expert-set-first-build-gallery/ IMHO it looks great. Cant wait to see it in real life. /Finn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt-92 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 12/9/2021 at 12:48 PM, FalkeEins said: ..and at least x2 in terms of price. £20 for a 72nd scale single-engine fighter? Yes, the Revell/Mistercraft/Hobbyboss ones are much better value for money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steh2o Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 The kit is reviewed here https://www.kfs-miniatures.com/1-72-p-51b-c-mustang-expert-set-arma-hobby/ sincerly I do not share the criticism about the sink marks (they seem to be very restrained) while I appreciate the overall shape as very close to perfect (it is so much better than Tamiya's for an example). The scuff plate of the main wheel doors seems to be the worst shortcoming found until now, and it is quite minor. I don't like that much the open bubble canopy, it is better replaced with a vacuum formed item. A good modeller can address all the limits it has turning it in a masterpiece with just using the parts in the box 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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