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Eduards new Zero colour matches


tctele
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Hi All. Newbie as well so be kind please! I've just ordered direct from Eduards' their new Zero. From the few unboxing reviews on Youtube it looks really good so I'm very much looking forward to building. In my case it will be a slow build as I've had a lay off for a few years. FYI today I realised my last completed build was in 1974 on Airfix's 1/24 Harrier. I think it was 1/24? Back to the Zero. Can anyone recommend an acrylic that matches the upper surfaces. It has to be acrylic for health reasons. Currently I'm in favour generally of the Vallejo range(s) as I get on with them very well. I know there are a few IJN sets out there with various reviews so perhaps one or two of them might do?  Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated. 

 

Tony

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Hiya Tony and welcome back to modelling. Do you actually know what specific paint Eduard recommend for this upper surface Zero colour? I think they normally quote Gunze paints but not sure what they say for this particular kit. Now I’m a bit of a fan of AK Real Colour paints (Solvent based), however believe that they have also released a similar series of Acyclic based paints too. AK do a range of Japanese colours, so that might help you get over the line. 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

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1 hour ago, tctele said:

Back to the Zero. Can anyone recommend an acrylic that matches the upper surfaces. It has to be acrylic for health reasons. Currently I'm in favour generally of the Vallejo range(s) as I get on with them very well. I know there are a few IJN sets out there with various reviews so perhaps one or two of them might do?  Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated. 

this one?

1379226-103169-51-720.jpg

Not just the uppers, but overall colour.

much discussed Japanese grey. It's an olive grey.  By this, it can have a both a greenish and brownish tint depending on illumination. 

Tamiya make XF-76 for their Zero kit,, this is rated as being a good match for a lightly weathered airframe.   Humbrol H168 Hemp is also rated.

 

I personally now wouldn't trust Vallejo (or other Spanish paint companies) ability to match paint colours  with "both hands and a map" , though given Vallejo's large range of colours, they probably have a reasonable match in the range,  but it's finding it! 

 

OK, this came up recently,  and I posted this

Plenty of discussion on the whole subject in the linked thread which maybe of use. 

Note  the link to aviation of Japan on Zero colours

http://www.aviationofjapan.com/search?q=zero+grey

 

Since you have got as far as asking about it,  well worth the time to read to get an idea of the debate and history of the colour.     And you have a couple of paints to go on.   One word of caution,  you may find online 'paint converters' between brands,   can be helpful but also confusing. 

 

What do Eduard call in in their instructions BTW?  They usually quote Gunze ?

 HTH

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As @JackG shows, Eduard is recommending paint mixes, among them a mix of Mission Models' paints (IJN J3 and RLM02). This is a little funny because Mission Models' own MMP-110 J3 IJN Gray (SP) (Amber) has been listed by Nicholas Millman as very close to the color Mitsubishi used, with a dE2000 of 1.31. That's about as close as it gets for an out of the bottle paint. In fact, I used that paint when building a Hasegawa 1/48 A6M2 a couple of years ago.

 

I have ordered and received the two Mission Models paints Eduard uses for their suggested mix and intend to replicate it and measure and publish the results. Watch this space!

 

Edit: As the OP appears to live in Blighty, the Mission Models paints may be hard for him to come by...

Edited by Rolls-Royce
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Since you mention health reasons I guess what you are asking for is water based paints rather then just any acrylic? You don't mention if you are hand brushing or airbrushing but Like Troy mentioned Tamiya XF-76 or AK do AK11899 in their 3rd gen range. - https://ak-interactive.com/product/ijn-j3-sp-amber-grey-air/

 

 

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When I started my adventure with Reisens I painted them with a mixture of Hemp and RLM02 (50/50) from Mr Hobby (I used H line , called Aqueous). My last Reisen I painted with AK Interactive J3 SP. However, there is a new range of Japanese colours on the horizon - Mr Paint is going to release them. 

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6 hours ago, Rolls-Royce said:

As @JackG shows, Eduard is recommending paint mixes, among them a mix of Mission Models' paints (IJN J3 and RLM02). This is a little funny because Mission Models' own MMP-110 J3 IJN Gray (SP) (Amber) has been listed by Nicholas Millman as very close to the color Mitsubishi used, with a dE2000 of 1.31. That's about as close as it gets for an out of the bottle paint. In fact, I used that paint when building a Hasegawa 1/48 A6M2 a couple of years ago.

 

I have ordered and received the two Mission Models paints Eduard uses for their suggested mix and intend to replicate it and measure and publish the results. Watch this space!

 

Edit: As the OP appears to live in Blighty, the Mission Models paints may be hard for him to come by...

Looking forward to your results. I've only ever used MMP as a primer so I have no real experience. 

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2 hours ago, Tbolt said:

Since you mention health reasons I guess what you are asking for is water based paints rather then just any acrylic? You don't mention if you are hand brushing or airbrushing but Like Troy mentioned Tamiya XF-76 or AK do AK11899 in their 3rd gen range. - https://ak-interactive.com/product/ija-1-hairyokushoku-grey-green-air/

 

 

Water based yes and airbrushing yes, I should have mentioned. Thanks for answering

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2 hours ago, Tbolt said:

Since you mention health reasons I guess what you are asking for is water based paints rather then just any acrylic? You don't mention if you are hand brushing or airbrushing but Like Troy mentioned Tamiya XF-76 or AK do AK11899 in their 3rd gen range. - https://ak-interactive.com/product/ija-1-hairyokushoku-grey-green-air/

 

 

The paint from the link is not good. It should be J3: AK2062, RC303, AK11892

 

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10 hours ago, tctele said:

 It has to be acrylic for health reasons. 

 

Tony

Don't be fooled into thinking water based paints are totally harmless, that's just a ploy by there manufacturers to get you to purchase their paints. There's still particles flying round when using them and probably far more than you'd get than using lacquer based paints including enamels. This is due in part to the higher pressure normally required to use them plus you'll have far more trouble with tip dry.

 

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2 hours ago, tank152 said:

Don't be fooled into thinking water based paints are totally harmless, that's just a ploy by there manufacturers to get you to purchase their paints. There's still particles flying round when using them and probably far more than you'd get than using lacquer based paints including enamels. This is due in part to the higher pressure normally required to use them plus you'll have far more trouble with tip dry.

 

 

When airbrushing of course, any paint particles that get in your lungs are not good for you. But the advantage of using water based over lacquer or enamels is the vapour that comes off them, not the dust, which isn't a problem when spraying but the vapour that hangs around afterwards. When I use water based acrylics I've never used a higher pressure, it just comes down to how much you thin them.

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19 minutes ago, DominikS said:

The paint from the link is not good. It should be J3: AK2062, RC303, AK11892

 

 

Yes sorry your are right, for some reason I clicked on the IJA set instead of the IJN set 🤦‍♂️

 

(I've edited my original post to try and avoid confusion).

 

 

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2 hours ago, tank152 said:

Don't be fooled into thinking water based paints are totally harmless, that's just a ploy by there manufacturers to get you to purchase their paints. There's still particles flying round when using them and probably far more than you'd get than using lacquer based paints including enamels. This is due in part to the higher pressure normally required to use them plus you'll have far more trouble with tip dry.

 

 

Not much of a problem with Tamiya or Gunzes "acrylics" (hybrids).

 

25 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Health concerns are a worry, but the combination of a spray booth (forced ventilation) and respirator should prevent the majority of problems.  Both are really recommended anyway when spraying anything indoors.

 

Yeah, any spray paints you should really use a spray booth and a respirator..

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Just going by MMP web site digital chips,  the resulting mix is too green to match Nick Millman's digital chip (which is available as a pdf that revises the colours in his Zero book publication).   Results could be different in paint form, but from this I would say Eduard may have made an error in the percentages and they should be reversed?

 

mission-model-paints-study.jpg

 

regards,

Jack

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Thanks, Jack. A reversal is a definite possibility. They also misidentified the crashed Zero pictured in their instruction booklet as the Niihau machine when it is in reality the one that crashed at Fort Kamehameha during the attack. I'll do it both ways and report back...

Edited by Rolls-Royce
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Pieces from an A6M2 recovered from Rabaul might be of some help, with some model paint chip cards.

 

IMG_0272

 

IMG_0273

 

IMG_0275

... the lighting wasn't great, but you have the chips for comparison.

 

Colin

Edited by Tail-Dragon
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I look like an astronaut in full PPE when spraying acrylics and that's with a spray booth and all of the windows open. I have 2 x stage 4 C and a secondary one chucked in for good measure. So I have to stay away from anything but acrylics and I shouldn't be using them really. But don't let any of that get in the way of your hobbies. I still build and fly RC and as I get "Tired" my plan was always to go back to "Airfixing" as when I was about 6 or 7 I used to always go and pick a model in a bag from the Airfix stand in Woolworths that my Mum would always somehow find the money to buy. Along with the Victor comic of course!. Great memories.

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Whichever paint you get; don't forget to get the paint line's thinner. All paint companies, enamel, acrylic, and lacquer offer a or several thinners for their paints(Testors offered a general thinner as well as an airbrush thinner as an example). Acrylics usually require a primer as well. I know that Mission Models does require it; they do sell it as well. AK Interactive has a set of paints for the Imp. Japanese Navy that are very accurate. Again, a primer and thinner are needed for them. Good luck in your choices. HTH

Joe

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It's a pity that you have to exclude enamels as Colourcoats do a fabulous match for the enigmatic 'light grey' colour of the early Mitsubishi built Zeros. I used it on my Airfix A6M2b and it looks to be spot on, the only thing to bear in mind being that what ever brand/type of paint you eventually go for all the control surfaces will need to be a lighter shade. As they were fabric covered they absorbed the paint and  reflected the light differently so making them appear to be lighter in colour.

 

Regards

Colin.

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Sorry, just to add that the engine cowling wasn't true black but a bluish black (predominantly black) colour, which again Colourcoats do along with the correct dark brown colour for the reverse of the prop blades.

 

Also worth bearing in mind that Mitsubishi and Nakajima built Zeros were different in terms of how some of the colours were applied so ideally you need to know who built the one you will be modelling, but for example the wheel wells on Mitsubishi examples were painted the colour of the airframe where as Nakajima examples were painted in Aotake. Plus the decking underneath the canopy was painted blue/black and not green or the airframe colour, as is often seen, and the aerial mast had a black cap at the top.

 

HTH.

 

Regards

Colin.

 

 

 

 

 

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Making it easier for the Eduard release, all PH A6M2s were Mitsubishi production, as Nakajima had just spun up their production line not too long before the operation. Fabric control surfaces are thought to have been regular J3 gray, as the anticorrosive protection for light metals incorporated into the airframe olive/amber gray wasn't needed.

I highly recommend Nicholas Millman's "Painting the Early Zero" PDF file available for purchase from him directly via email at his site aviationofjapan.com as it discusses such details and is not expensive. The newest version discusses current model paint offerings as well.

Edited by Rolls-Royce
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OOOkay...

I have mixed and sprayed 2 patches of Eduard's 70% MMP-107 J3 Zero Lt Grey / 30% MMP-056 Grau RLM 02. The reason I did two is that I have a 2-year-old still-sealed bottle of the MMP-056 that is noticeably lighter and less green than the brand new bottle I just received along with the MMP-107 J3, so I wanted to see the effect this would have on the overall resulting color. I will let these dry/cure overnight and measure them tomorrow. Stay tuned!

Edited by Rolls-Royce
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12 hours ago, Rolls-Royce said:

OOOkay...

I have mixed and sprayed 2 patches of Eduard's 70% MMP-107 J3 Zero Lt Grey / 30% MMP-056 Grau RLM 02. The reason I did two is that I have a 2-year-old still-sealed bottle of the MMP-056 that is noticeably lighter and less green than the brand new bottle I just received along with the MMP-107 J3, so I wanted to see the effect this would have on the overall resulting color. I will let these dry/cure overnight and measure them tomorrow. Stay tuned!

Looking forward to seeing the results.

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