Fine Molds Phantom F-4D "The First Mig Ace"

[Johnson]

'evening folks,

 

Having just thoroughly enjoyed building Robin Olds Phantom F-4C 'SCAT XXVII' (1/72 Hobby 2000, Hasegawa re-box) in the F-4 Phantom II STGB, I was keen to do another Phantom.

 

The Hasegawa kit is very good but goes back 30 years, and is showing it's age. So this time I wanted something a bit more up-to-date. The Fine Molds F-4D came out as a new tool F-4J released in 2020. This is a re-box with new parts for the 'D'. It's had lots of positive reviews which, being from Fine Molds, is unsurprising.

 

But where to get it? Fine Molds kits just don't seem to get stocked in the UK which considering their excellent reputation is very odd. I finally took the plunge and ordered it from Japan (Hobby Search) which worked a treat.

 

Here's what I got;

 

 

The box art depicts Richard Stephen "Steve" Ritchie's F-4D in which he achieved his 1st and 5th MiG-21 kills. The only U.S. Air Force pilot ace of the Vietnam War, Capt. Steve Ritchie destroyed five MiG-21s during Operation Linebacker in 1972.

 

On the flightline at Udorn Air Base, Thailand, Ritchie stands next to his F-4 Phantom displaying five stars to reflect each of the MiG-21s he shot down during the Vietnam War. (Photo: U.S. Air Force)

 

Sprues, or 'trees' as Fine Molds call them;

 

 

 

 

 

The molded detail looks really excellent. The way the kit assembles is different to any Phantom I've ever made and looks like it may be less hassle with the fuselage and jet intake joins, we'll see. You also get a very detailed cockpit, wheel wells, jet intakes and exhausts which makes a real change (less aftermarket £££s). Ailerons look as if they can be depicted with a usual droop of a parked Phantom, and the Aux intakes under the belly can be also be modelled open. Oddly, the air-brakes - which also droop on unpowered aircraft - are molded shut, so possibly a bit of surgery when I get there.

 

Decals;

 

 

Look very like Tamiya decals, well printed but quite thick. Plenty of stencils but Fine Molds have chosen to group them in bunches, which should make application less painful but may result in the dreaded 'silvering' over panel lines. I'll worry about that when I get there.

 

Like Hasegawa, Fine Molds don't give you weapons with the kit. So at the same time as ordering the kits I bought their air-to-air missile set, bombs and seat belts sets. I added these to the 3 kits I eventually bought from Plaza Japan and Hobby Search Japan, trying to spread the load so I wouldn't get stung for UK import tax. They offer tracked/insured air shipping from Japan Post which works seamlessly with Royal Mail, and no tax! . And all far cheaper than UK (eBay ) prices, what a weird world we live in. The missile set was very useful as it contains the various ECM pods F-4s carried in the Vietnam War.

 

 

 

 

The plastic seat belts are supposed to be 'bendable' or 'moldable'. Makes a change from trying to attach wretched etched metal belts with superglue, again - we'll see.

 

Back soon...

[billn53]

Excellent! I, too, have this kit and am very interested in seeing how it goes together. 

[billn53]

Just in case you haven’t seen it, you should check out @giemme ‘s in-process build of Fine Molds’s F-4E.  Lots of good info there on how the kit goes together, and ideas for improvement. 
 

 

 

[Thom216]

Be popping in from time to time for a little peek! Got the 4J kit in the mail a short time ago and will be paying attention.

And FIY, Eduard makes some PE air brakes meant for the Academy kit. Might fit here..?

[Johnson]

11 hours ago, billn53 said:

Just in case you haven’t seen it, you should check out @giemme ‘s in-process build of Fine Molds’s F-4E.  Lots of good info there on how the kit goes together, and ideas for improvement. 

 

Thanks Bill. I've been following Giorgio's posts avidly, lots of great tips there!

 

Look forward to having you around for the build.

 

 

9 hours ago, Thom216 said:

Be popping in from time to time for a little peek! Got the 4J kit in the mail a short time ago and will be paying attention.

And FIY, Eduard makes some PE air brakes meant for the Academy kit. Might fit here..?

 

Good morning Thom, do drop in anytime!

 

I think this build may last a while. At least until the New Year when I'm planning to join the Mig 21 STGB. I have an Eduard 1/72 Mig 21 with a VPAF scheme!

 

I have some Eduard F-4J PE airbrakes left over from previous builds so I'll see if they fit, they look very good.

 

Cheers,

 

 

[Ray_W]

I think I'll follow along.

 

Ray

[Johnson]

1 hour ago, Ray_W said:

I think I'll follow along

Glad to have you with me Ray! I'll be referring to your seats from your last build shortly, albeit at a slightly smaller scale.

[Ray_W]

4 minutes ago, Johnson said:

I'll be referring to your seats from your last build shortly

Go for it.  Have fun. 

[Johnson]

Started in the usual place. I'm following the instructions carefully as this kit is a bit different and more complex than my last Hasegawa Phantom build.

 

Parts cut (carefully!) from the 'trees' and admired;

 

 

They look good don't they? And nice to see rails for the seats. But, a bit light on cockpit wall details. Like other manufacturers FM are using their parts for a number of different F-4 types. (Navy, USAF, Marines) and I guess catering for the different internal side wall fit would be difficult.

 

 

Dry fitting tells me that the fit is phenomenal! But I'm going to have to be careful with the joins. The 'hump' at the back of the cockpit, (part No S6) which butts up against the rear cabin bulkhead (A14), is a tiny bit too far back. A14 is holding it back slightly and will need a bit more pressure when being glued to the tub (A4).

 

I'm being quite cautious here. It really is such a lovely kit that I don't won't to spoil it by rushing.

 

Back (fairly) soon. Cheers!

[Johnson]

Fine Molds provide two complete sets of instrument panels;

 

 

The set on the left are for those who wish to use the pretty decent looking i/p decals, and there's the beautifully crafted set on the right... well I suppose I could try painting them . There's a wealth of glorious detail there.

 

These are the main i/p decals...

                                                                 try painting that at 1/72!

 

So what I'm wondering is whether I can combine the 3D detail on the RHS set with the decals? Only one way to find out I suppose.

 

I believe hot water followed by Mr Mark Setter Neo and Softer Neo are best for Japanese decals (I'm assuming these are similar to Tamiya decals). I have both in the paint store though I've never used them and will have to do some BM searching on the best technique.

 

------------------------

 

PS

 

Having looked at the BM archives on Mr Mark Setter Neo and Softer Neo they don't seem highly rated. Allegedly they are dumbed down European/US versions of the original Mr Mark Setter and Softer for the thinner decals that we tend to use (e.g. Cartograf, Techmod) and the original hotter solutions, only available from Japan, are for their thicker decals. But I'll do some experimentation and see what results I get.

 

Cheers,

Edited December 3, 2021 by Johnson
More info

[Chrisj2003]

1 hour ago, Johnson said:

 

So what I'm wondering is whether I can combine the 3D detail on the RHS set with the decals? Only one way to find out I suppose.

Charlie, will follow this and watch you do your magic. Interested if you can get the decals over the raised detail, I dry brushed my IP which I was happy with, but detail and decal will be best. 
 

Doubt if I’ll do my D for a few years, early E and EJ are for next year’s GBs, along with non Phantom subjects. 😀

 

Chris

[Johnson]

2 hours ago, Chrisj2003 said:

Interested if you can get the decals over the raised detail

Hi Chris,

Got sample plastic painted and will try some experiments with surplus FM decals tomorrow. Aim is to trial the Mr Mark solutions against Microscale Set and Sol.

 

2 hours ago, Chrisj2003 said:

Doubt if I’ll do my D for a few years, early E and EJ are for next year’s GBs, along with non Phantom subjects. 😀

So many GBs to choose from! Plan is to get the D over the line before next year's GBs take off.

[Chrisj2003]

11 hours ago, Johnson said:

So many GBs to choose from! Plan is to get the D over the line before next year's GBs take off.

😀 my plan is to finish this years GB before next. Still recalling Kai. 
 

Chris

[Ray_W]

14 hours ago, Johnson said:

Mr Mark Setter Neo and Softer Neo

 

Charlie, 

 

In my experience, and as typified in my recent 1/48 Tamiya build, I have found the Mr Mark Setter NEO is a good product. Worked well with the thicker Tamiya decals. Gunze Mr Mark Setter under and then Tamiya Mark Fit "Strong" over the top. Mark Setter giving some time to play with positioning and starts some nice conforming work. For the instrument panel decal in that kit I just used Tamiya Mark Fit "Strong" under and over. It settled down wonderfully. Needed a couple of applications of the "Strong". The kit decal with dial faces picked in X-22.

 

 

Gunze Mr Mark Softer NEO is just not like the old Gunze non-NEO Mark Softer. They appear to have weakened the mix (the usual modeller's comment is that it was done for the old Eastern European decals) and I find it now does not do much.

 

My preference for the Japanese style decals is now Mark Setter NEO under and then Tamiya Mark Fit Normal, or Strong or Super Strong over the decals as needed. Still, I find I am jumping all over the place with decal soutions due to variability in what works with different decal suppliers. I also use Micro Set and Sol which does a great job. 

 

Take your pick:

 

 

Ray

 

 

[Johnson]

13 hours ago, Chrisj2003 said:

😀 my plan is to finish this years GB before next. Still recalling Kai. 

The Airfix FG.1's decals (about 250 I think) were enough for me. I expect you'll be glad when they're done!

 

13 hours ago, Ray_W said:

My preference for the Japanese style decals is now Mark Setter NEO under and then Tamiya Mark Fit Normal, or Strong or Super Strong over the decals as needed. Still, I find I am jumping all over the place with decal soutions due to variability in what works with different decal suppliers. I also use Micro Set and Sol which does a great job. 

 

Thanks Ray, your knowledge of the range of modelling 'chemicals' (for want of a better word; paints, clear coats etc) never ceases to amaze me. The Tamiya Mark Fit range is one I have yet to try. But doesn't seem widely available here in the UK. No LMS near where I live, and none of my usual postal modelling suppliers stock it, most odd.

 

Experiment with spare bits of FM decal;

• 15 seconds on (not immersed, to retain the adhesive) hot water
• 30 seconds on the mat to allow the water to penetrate the backing paper
• Transferred with soft brush to test object painted 24 hours previously with gloss enamel paint (Xtracolor Dark Gull Grey) which had been thinly coated with either Mr Mark Setter Neo or Microsol
• After 1 minute, applied gentle pressure with a clean dry tissue to assist the decal to conform, brushed on another thin layer of decal solvent
• Another 1 minute before final press with dry tissue

 

 

A bit hard to see the difference (see anything?? ) but the above proved for me (all decals/paints/applications will differ) that Micro Sol works much better than Mark Setter Neo in getting the decal to conform to a complex surface.

 

So, on to the real things.

 

[Ray_W]

13 hours ago, Johnson said:

Micro Sol works much better than Mark Setter Neo

 

Hi Charlie,

 

Thanks for posting your process. I always like see the experience of others.

 

Your result is to be expected as Mr Mark Setter NEO is a surface preparation solution more comparable to Micro Set. The Mark Setter does provide some conforming capability. Although, in my experience, it is not at the same level of the dedicated decal softening solutions. For those applications the Micro Sol is definitely better for softening and getting the decal to conform and suck into detail. I also think the Microscale product is much better than the later NEO type Mr Mark Softer. It was a close race with the old Mark Softer, which was more aggressive, and I have read is still available in Japan and I expect it is much better for thicker type Japanese decals.

 

For my IP I used Tamiya Mark Fit Strong under and over the decal. 

 

Interestingly, I found that Mr Mark Setter NEO (the white stuff well shaken) seems to react a little better with the Tamiya decal adhesive and allows you to work more of the adhesive out giving a thinner decal on the model. This is a very non-scientific observation - more subjective than objective. I have the Tamiya Bf-109 G-6 in my stash and looking forward to testing this observation again by using the kit supplied decals.

 

I might add that I usually prefer Micro Set and Sol for most decalling jobs. 

 

Ray

[Johnson]

A bit of progress. The i/p decals went down OK on the raised FM i/p parts;

 

 

 

Overall I'm happy with the result and I think it was worth the effort. Still got to flat coat the whole i/p and then pick out the dials with gloss. You can see where the decals have distorted slightly with the Microsol.

 

The sidewalls have had a bit of additional detail added, mostly the canopy release mechanisms and some panels for the circuit breaker boards in the back, Will need to make some decals up for these.

 

 

Back soon, cheers.

[alt-92]

\o/

Joining in here Mine are still on the slow boat I guess, even with a pre-ordered set from my LHS. 

About the decals: I did the FineMolds Ki-15 Karigane for the Unarmed GB, and was pleasantly surprised with the decals.

Didn't even need to glosscoat, just stuck 'em straight on the AK Xtreme Metal paint and it looks fantastic. As long as the paintjob is nice and smooth (satin/semigloss Mr.Color?) it may work without.

[Ray_W]

The Instrumentation decals look really good. I also like the extra work you're doing on the sidewalls.

 

Ray

[VT Red Sox Fan]

Joining in—this is shaping up nicely—best, Erwin 

[Johnson]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:32 PM, alt-92 said:

Joining in here Mine are still on the slow boat I guess, even with a pre-ordered set from my LHS. 

Glad to have you along @alt-92. I'm sure you won't be disappointed when they arrive!

 

On 12/9/2021 at 10:55 AM, Ray_W said:

The Instrumentation decals look really good. I also like the extra work you're doing on the sidewalls.

Thanks Ray. I always have the (unreasonable and unachievable) image of your 1/48 i/p in my mind! But I think for 1/72 they're OK.

 

On 12/9/2021 at 3:08 PM, VT Red Sox Fan said:

Joining in—this is shaping up nicely—best, Erwin 

Welcome Erwin and thanks!

 

Progress...

 

In between some real life I've been carrying on working on the cockpit. More work than it possibly deserves seeing as it doesn't get much visibility, but I do enjoy it.

 

 

The back of the GIBs i/p has been drilled for some 'representative' wiring. A wash of Tamiya weathering dark pastel, so light I can hardly see it! Maybe a tad more?

 

 

And getting ahead of myself (and the instructions- this is step 33). The Ejection seats. I love working on these and wanted to see how they will look in the cockpit.

 

 

OK I think.

 

Back soon, cheers.

[Johnson]

The FM instructions say to paint the splitter plates at this stage before gluing them in place. I wasn't entirely happy with the idea so did a little dry assembly to see what might be possible.

 

 

The splitter plates do have to be joined to the fuselage at this stage, but I think delaying painting these will be OK. The insides of the jet intakes will need painting white, and the short overlap of the camouflage color inside the intakes, will definitely need to be done prior to assembly. The cockpit front piece will join better than above, it's just not being held by the tape.

[Johnson]

Progress... fairly mundane, but getting there. The intakes painted white;

 

 

Just noticed (why do I see these things in photos AFTER I've done the painting) that there are holes in the top of the intakes, presemably for the F-4J's DECM Antennas.

 

Back soon, cheers.

 

[Johnson]

The trouble with perusing other modellers Phantom builds, and I mean those at 1/48 and 1/32, is that it gives me ideas...

 

The Fine Molds splitter plates are little wonders;

 

 

I just hope the detail survives the painting!

 

At the back of the ramps are vents, not included by Fine Molds, but present in the larger scale kits. I couldn't resist trying to add them;

 

 

Drilled out with a 0.5mm drill and enlarged/squared with a 10A scalpel. The right hand (starboard) vents are better. I also scribed the line on top where the vario ramp swings out.

 

And I've learned what Phantom splitter plate and vario ramps do, which is a bonus! 

[Johnson]

Having said that I wouldn't be painting the ramps, I've re-thought this and decided that following the FM instructions would be wise. The camouflage returns in the jet intakes have to be done now, so while I'm painting them I may as well paint the ramps and the fuselage behind them. Masking will be easier now than when assembled.

 

 

On my last Phantom build I used Xtracolor enamels which were OK but I wasn't happy with the lighter green. This time I'm going to try Sovereign Hobbies Colorcoats as I've been impressed with the accuracy of their colour matches. A good result but @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies the tan is totally matt (or flat) and the green satin. Why? It detrimentally affects the finish and complicates the following gloss coat which would probably be unnecessary if they were consistently satin finish. Last year I had the same with my 1940 Spitfire; the dark green was matt/flat with a grainy finish and the dark earth satin and smooth.

 

 

A lot of masking. I skipped some masking on the last build and paid the price with lots of follow-up resprays.

 

 

Just got to add the pitot tubes to the intakes and it's ready to assemble then on to the rear fuselage.

 

Thanks for looking, any opinions and suggestions most welcome.

 

Cheers,