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1/48 - Supermarine Scimitar by DB Model Kits (DBMK) - 3D renders+3D printed test parts - release October 2023 ?


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Per an earlier posting (not mine, but it shows I take note of the advice of others) a scan on its own is of little use.  It has to be developed with software and the skill\knowledge of how to use it.

Others may know if there are different LIDAR scanners, each requiring its own software and usage skills.

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On 11/30/2021 at 3:36 PM, SAT69 said:

I'd like to see a 1/48 Scimitar kit just because I like the looks of the airplane and always have.

1/72 for me but I agree, it's a darn fine looking aeroplane and I'd love to build one.

  

On 12/1/2021 at 4:11 AM, Dave Fleming said:

Curious as to why the title has 1/48(?)in it - even with the ?, there is no information to base anything on!

I've gone through the entire thread and can't find anywhere scale is mentioned except for individual members' preference. We don't even know the LiDAR was done for a kit!! I understand this is The Rumourmonger Thread, but this one's based on a pretty flimsy premise at this point.

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4 hours ago, Beermonster1958 said:

We're at the stage now when it seems that the merest whiff of LIDAR at a location or, the sight of someone from Airfix etc looking at a particular subject is taken to mean that a kit must surely follow

Who's we?

This is a rumour page, where we can legitimately talk about the merest idea of a project, whether it actually goes ahead or not.

 

 

One thing this thread has proved is that the Scimitar is a popular subject amongst modellers, it's limited service life is perhaps a side issue, it's stunningly beautiful looks, and handful of colourful squadron markings makes it a great kit subject.

 

Talking of it's service career, this was more down to timing.  Along with most British military projects of the era the development was hugely drawn out. This was due to rapid changes in knowledge of aerodynamics and structures by the manufacturers and research establishments, aswel as constant changes in requirements and specifications by the operators.

Supermarine endured a large amount of changing requirements between the early 1950s 508 and the late 1957 service ready Scimitar, but delivered a great fighter to the Admiralty which brought a new era of large, powerful and swept-wing combat aircraft to the relatively small carriers of the Royal Navy.  This provided a huge leap in capability to the Fleet Air Arm, and most importantly, experience in operating such powerful and complex types (first for blown flaps and full power flying controls). 

It was also truly multi-role, uniquely so for British services at the time, it could carry Sidewinder air to air, and Bullpup air to ground missiles,  drop conventional and nuclear bombs and be rapidly reconfigured for photo work.

The Scimitar's development coincided with that  of de Havillands' as equally drawn out project the DH110 which also went though major changes of ideas and requirements, and the Sea Vixen all weather fighter entered service a couple of years after the Scimitar.  The Sea Vixen could carry out the Scimitar's primary roles of fighter, strike and photographic reconnaissance with no change in performance but greater usability due radar, two man crew and operability in bad weather and at night.  Both types had their fair share of serviceability issues, and both experienced unenviable accident rates.

The Scimitar was withdrawn from the combat role after just five years of service and was then used in the valuable tanker role for a further four years, mainly to prop up the poor performance of the Buccaneer S.1. the Sea Vixen fulfilled the fighter, strike and recon role until the Phantom completely replaced it in 1971.

As regards lack of foreign orders or use, British aviation was really centred on providing it's home operators with closely tailored aircraft, the Admiralty and Ministry of Supply would issue tight specifications, fed from requirements by the Fleet Air Arm, Royal Air Force etc.  There was very little thought, or need to provide to foreign services, lucrative contacts were issued to the likes of Supermarine and de Havilland to provide limited numbers of aircraft to the military, it was a fairly incestuous industry, and one which by the late 1950s had to change.

 

 

The scanning being talked of here, personally I think this is probably related to housing the Scimitar at Southampton rather than a kit project. 

I would love to see a 48th injected Scimitar, there have been some superb builds on the forum of the Dynavector kit.   Would there ever be one, well we got a superb Sea Vixen from Airfix, the type operated in the same limited colour scheme with an equal amount of colourful squadron markings and interesting weapons load, and that appeared to have sold well.  Certainly more esoteric types have been issued in injected kits, such as the Skyshark and Vought XF5U.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by 71chally
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2 hours ago, 71chally said:

Who's we?

This is a rumour page, where we can legitimately talk about the merest idea of a project, whether it actually goes ahead or not.

 

 

One thing this thread has proved is that the Scimitar is a popular subject amongst modellers, it's limited service life is perhaps a side issue, it's stunningly beautiful looks, and handful of colourful squadron markings makes it a great kit subject.

 

Talking of it's service career, this was more down to timing.  Along with most British military projects of the era the development was hugely drawn out. This was due to rapid changes in knowledge of aerodynamics and structures by the manufacturers and research establishments, aswel as constant changes in requirements and specifications by the operators.

Supermarine endured a large amount of changing requirements between the early 1950s 508 and the late 1957 service ready Scimitar, but delivered a great fighter to the Admiralty which brought a new era of large, powerful and swept-wing combat aircraft to the relatively small carriers of the Royal Navy.  This provided a huge leap in capability to the Fleet Air Arm, and most importantly, experience in operating such powerful and complex types (first for blown flaps and full power flying controls). 

It was also truly multi-role, uniquely so for British services at the time, it could carry Sidewinder air to air, and Bullpup air to ground missiles,  drop conventional and nuclear bombs and be rapidly reconfigured for photo work.

The Scimitar's development coincided with that  of de Havillands' as equally drawn out project the DH110 which also went though major changes of ideas and requirements, and the Sea Vixen all weather fighter entered service a couple of years after the Scimitar.  The Sea Vixen could carry out the Scimitar's primary roles of fighter, strike and photographic reconnaissance with no change in performance but greater usability due radar, two man crew and operability in bad weather and at night.  Both types had their fair share of serviceability issues, and both experienced unenviable accident rates.

The Scimitar was withdrawn from the combat role after just five years of service and was then used in the valuable tanker role for a further four years, mainly to prop up the poor performance of the Buccaneer S.1. the Sea Vixen fulfilled the fighter, strike and recon role until the Phantom completely replaced it in 1971.

As regards lack of foreign orders or use, British aviation was really centred on providing it's home operators with closely tailored aircraft, the Admiralty and Ministry of Supply would issue tight specifications, fed from requirements by the Fleet Air Arm, Royal Air Force etc.  There was very little thought, or need to provide to foreign services, lucrative contacts were issued to the likes of Supermarine and de Havilland to provide limited numbers of aircraft to the military, it was a fairly incestuous industry, and one which by the late 1950s had to change.

 

 

The scanning being talked of here, personally I think this is probably related to housing the Scimitar at Southampton rather than a kit project. 

I would love to see a 48th injected Scimitar, there have been some superb builds on the forum of the Dynavector kit.   Would there ever be one, well we got a superb Sea Vixen from Airfix, the type operated in the same limited colour scheme with an equal amount of colourful squadron markings and interesting weapons load, and that appeared to have sold well.  Certainly more esoteric types have been issued in injected kits, such as the Skyshark and Vought XF5U.  

 

 

 

 

 

Well said James. I'd also add 'In Flight Tanking' and 'Fleet Requirements' duties to your list of the Scimitars tasks.

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18 hours ago, Beermonster1958 said:

We're at the stage now when it seems that the merest whiff of LIDAR at a location or, the sight of someone from Airfix etc looking at a particular subject is taken to mean that a kit must surely follow. There was wild speculation over on the Airfix FarceBook page recently when it was announced that such and such was visiting Portsmouth dockyard. All of a sudden  it was assumed that they were going to do a kit of one of the new carriers or, something else. Turns out the guy was visiting a friend who served on a type 45 docked there at the time!

 

John

 

I’m pretty sure you don’t understand the purpose of this forum.  Read this:


“What kits have you heard about from the manufacturers, your mum's cousin vinny, or in an overheard conversation in the queue for the latest uberkit? Post your thoughts, requests for confirmation, or wisp of speculation here... just don't argue about it!”

 

You object to “wisps of speculation?”

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21 hours ago, 71chally said:

Who's we?

This is a rumour page, where we can legitimately talk about the merest idea of a project, whether it actually goes ahead or not.

 

 

One thing this thread has proved is that the Scimitar is a popular subject amongst modellers, it's limited service life is perhaps a side issue, it's stunningly beautiful looks, and handful of colourful squadron markings makes it a great kit subject.

 

T

A British aircraft popular on Britmodeller  -who'd have thought :D .  Mind you there is a significant minority who don't see the attraction

But just because a few people here appear to like it , that doesn't equate  to commercial success.  I don't see it being particularly popular outside the UK.  

Edited by Calum
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58 minutes ago, Calum said:

But just because a few people here appear to like it , that doesn't equate doesn't equate to commercial success.  I don't see it being particularly popular outside the UK.  

I think you're right. At a rough count, about 20 people in this thread have expressed interest in a Scimitar kit. That isn't really going to sway a manufacturer's decision on whether it would be commercially viable.

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That's always the problem of threads like this: they may seem to show a huge interest for a certain subject but really in the end it's 2-3 dozen enthusiasts, and often always the same 2-3 dozen people (me included).

Fortunately model companies have more reliable ways to try and predict the success of a subject, not least the sales numbers of previously released kits that for one reason or the other may be comparable.

 

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4 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

That's always the problem of threads like this: they may seem to show a huge interest for a certain subject but really in the end it's 2-3 dozen enthusiasts, and often always the same 2-3 dozen people (me included).

Fortunately model companies have more reliable ways to try and predict the success of a subject, not least the sales numbers of previously released kits that for one reason or the other may be comparable.

 

 

I agree with you 100%.  The Scimitar might well end up being the worst selling kit of the 21st Century.  But this is the Rumourmonger forum where rumors are the currency of the land.  Now, if there was another forum call "Which Kits Sell?" that would be a place to discuss sales numbers and profitability.  But the tendency of some to shoot down "wild speculation" simply because they KNOW a certain kit won't sell seems to defeat they purpose of this particular forum.  

 

Yep, and I have heard all the stories.  Everyone wanted a 1/72 Nimrod and then they sat on the shelf for years (I did my part, I bought one).   Honestly, the only folks that know for certain how a particular Airfix kit sells are the Airfix bean counters.   And I don't know if they've ever said. 

 

But logic seems to dictate that since we have 267 Bf 109s from 98 manufacturers in 19 different scales, that BF 109s sell.  And that is cool.  But I like offbeat subjects and will never build a Bf 109.  That does not mean Bf 109s are bad.  It does not mean that folks that build them are wrong.  It means I don't care for them.  Me.  

 

When I build something, it is because it looks cool to me or has an interesting paint job.  And if there wasn't interest in the offbeat we'd not have new Mohawks, or Skysharks, or P-35s or P-43s, McDonnell Demons or Gannet AEWs.  

Edited by Ad-4N
clarity
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9 minutes ago, Ad-4N said:

Yep, and I have heard all the stories.  Everyone wanted a 1/72 Nimrod and then they sat on the shelf for years (I did my part, I bought one).   Honestly, the only folks that know for certain how a particular Airfix kit sells are the Airfix bean counters.   And I don't know if they've ever said. 

As far as Airfix were concerned I heard the Nimrod sold very well. It was released on the back of the TSR2 where demand outstripped the first production run, and retailers bought on the back of this. Airfix sold out and certain retailers ended up with over stock they couldn't shift at retail price.

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It seems like the most reasonable explanation that it's for a kit, so I don't see why it shouldn't generate discussion in the Rumourmonger of a modelling site - a Museum doesn't really need a high definition 3D model of an aircraft that they already have and can physically measure, and there's not really any other industry that would use this kind of thing!

 

Now if it had been an absurdly detailed photogrammetry scan of the cockpit to get all the dials and lettering just so I'd have suspected it was a Flight Sim developer, but they don't usually care too much about the outsides of their aircraft!

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1 hour ago, Dave Swindell said:

As far as Airfix were concerned I heard the Nimrod sold very well. It was released on the back of the TSR2 where demand outstripped the first production run, and retailers bought on the back of this. Airfix sold out and certain retailers ended up with over stock they couldn't shift at retail price.

I think the problem with the Nimrod was a) it was a large model when completed so casual modellers were unlikely to have space for a completed model, and b) for more fastidious modellers the errors in the model were inexcusable and required a fair bit of effort to put right. That said I did purchase my fair share and still have 2 sitting in the stash. Just need the mojo to fix the errors.

 

Peter

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2 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

I have heard from a couple of usually reliable sources that this IS for a kit manufacturer but not one of the big/well known ones. No names!

Congratulations! You win the Gold Rumourmongering Medal for today! Extra points for incorporating the phrase "usually reliable sources" into your post - well done! :thumbsup:

 

John

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3 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

A rumour forum, not a want list.  I don't think claiming that this is a rumour because you want it to be one really counts.

 

A Scimitar sits at a museum.  A team is observed creating a high definition 3D model of said Scimitar.  Model companies have in the past used high definition 3D models as the basis of kits eventually released.  I can infer that some model company is interested in producing a Scimitar at some point.  Thus a rumour and not a want list.  

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I'd love to see a 1/72 Supermarine Scimitar from, say, Sword.

Did Sword scan any Lightnings for their kits? 

 

(Special Hobby ought to do the Étendard series after they're done releasing the new Mirage III/5 and derivatives. Airfix, I don't care for the way they do jets' canopy frames in excessive relief, but a 1/72 Sea Vixen would be good, and would go very nicely with a Scimitar).

 

Tony

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23 hours ago, Ad-4N said:

 

I’m pretty sure you don’t understand the purpose of this forum.  Read this:


“What kits have you heard about from the manufacturers, your mum's cousin vinny, or in an overheard conversation in the queue for the latest uberkit? Post your thoughts, requests for confirmation, or wisp of speculation here... just don't argue about it!”

 

You object to “wisps of speculation?”

I know this wasn't targeted at me but when I typed my post I had forgotten this. Thanks for reminding us, Ad-4N.

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10 hours ago, tony.t said:

I'd love to see a 1/72 Supermarine Scimitar from, say, Sword.

Did Sword scan any Lightnings for their kits? 

 

 

I don't think so - their 1/48th kit was obviously based on the Airfix kit and the 1/72 had some Trumpeter like qualities, but correcting some of errors in that kit

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23 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

I have heard from a couple of usually reliable sources that this IS for a kit manufacturer but not one of the big/well known ones. No names!

Must be Amusing hobby then 😁….

Still for those who think the subject is to British and is only viable for the UK market you can be wrong!

There are loads of people on the Mainland who like those quirky UK subjects..

 

 

cheers, Jan 

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On 12/6/2021 at 4:39 PM, Dave Fleming said:

I have heard from a couple of usually reliable sources that this IS for a kit manufacturer but not one of the big/well known ones. No names!

Did your 'usually reliable sources' say what scale?

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6 minutes ago, Denford said:

Did your 'usually reliable sources' say what scale?

If it's not from one of the "big guys" I suspect it will be 1/72 scale, though it'd be a nice size model in that scale.

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  • Homebee changed the title to 1/48 - Supermarine Scimitar by DB Model Kits (DBMK) - 3D renders+3D printed test parts - release October 2023 ?

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