Veteran racing car kits, pre-1924. What, if anything, is out there? (Inspired by the recent Goodwood Members Meeting 78.)

[Quiet Mike]

I'm a stranger to these parts of the forum, so firstly, hello 👋    (I'm usually in the Aircraft modelling section)

 

My other half is a motorsport marshal, and I recently blagged some complimentary tickets to my first Goodwood Members Meeting. I fell head over heels in love with all the 'Edwardian Racers', the gnarlier the better! I loved the homebuilt look of them all, of getting an old prewar saloon chassis and bolting in a WW1 surplus aircraft engine. The smell and noise of these epic machines is as much of a pull as their looks. I'm smitten!

 

So, are there any kits out there that portray this period of racing? I've had a quick look and can't see much. I have fond childhood memories of the old 1/32 Matchbox kits of a few pre WW2 cars. I understand it is very limited interest, but is there a Wingnut Wings equivelent for early racing cars?

 

I've already had a shufti at some of the amazing FIAT 806 thread on here 😲 

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Goodwood Members Meeting 78 by Mike, on Flickr

 

Goodwood Members Meeting 78 by Mike, on Flickr

 

 

 

[Sabrejet]

If you want to do most/all of the aero-engined Edwardians then I'd say you won't have much chance of finding any kits out there. I had considered scratch-building one of the GN-based specials but haven't gotten round to it yet.....

 

I do recall that there was a Blitzen Benz in the Edwardian race (one of the Walker driving), which might be the best bet in terms of kit possibilities, if only by using a couple of different kits and scratch-building a lot.

 

My favourite is Richard Scaldwell's GN-JAP, which wasn't there this year but would certainly need a scratch-built chassis and engine!

[keefr22]

5 hours ago, Quiet Mike said:

I've already had a shufti at some of the amazing FIAT 806 thread on here

 

Hi Mike, 

 

Not my era, so I'm not really much more aware of available kits than you tbh, the only other one I'm aware of is another Italeri 1/12, the Fiat Mefistophele which is maybe later than you're interested in ?;

 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/IT4701?result-token=Nyk7V

 

I believe there's a Portugese manufacturer of resin kits that does pre-WW2 machines but I think they're maybe 1930's era. IIRC there's a couple of builts of them in the Vehicles WIP section

 

Keith

[Paul H]

For Edwardian racing cars, the next nearest kit after the Italeri Fiat is probably the Bandai / Entex Mercer Raceabout, in 1:16.  Worth noting that a lot of the 'Edwardian' stuff at Goodwood & in the VSCC is actually relatively recently assembled using mostly Edwardian era parts rather than being period survivors- for example, that Austin pictured above was built up only about twenty years ago using a 1910 Austin chassis & a Hall-Scott aero engine.  The body is all new, but built to look in period & in such a way that it had patina.  I've been a passenger in it out on the public road (yes, it's road legal!) as the builder was someone I used to know from uni.  Very powerful (would go up a local very steep hill in top, still accelerating), but rear brakes only...  I vaguely recall that it featured in one of the old car mags at the time too.

[Noel Smith]

There were some 1/16th scale kits by Aurora of some cars from that sort of era.

This period is a bit neglected unfortunately as manufacturers probably would not get much of a return on their investment like they do for F1, Rally and Exotic Supercars for example.I

Italeri seem to be bucking the trend a bit with their 1/12th scale Fiat and Alfa Romeo kits.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Noel Smith

[Quiet Mike]

19 hours ago, Paul H said:

For Edwardian racing cars, the next nearest kit after the Italeri Fiat is probably the Bandai / Entex Mercer Raceabout, in 1:16.  Worth noting that a lot of the 'Edwardian' stuff at Goodwood & in the VSCC is actually relatively recently assembled using mostly Edwardian era parts rather than being period survivors- for example, that Austin pictured above was built up only about twenty years ago using a 1910 Austin chassis & a Hall-Scott aero engine.  The body is all new, but built to look in period & in such a way that it had patina.  I've been a passenger in it out on the public road (yes, it's road legal!) as the builder was someone I used to know from uni.  Very powerful (would go up a local very steep hill in top, still accelerating), but rear brakes only...  I vaguely recall that it featured in one of the old car mags at the time too.

 

You lucky blighter @Paul H!
Yes, I was hanging around the paddock and got the 'gen' on some of these machines, it's hard to believe some are only fairly recent builds.  I was lucky enough to attend the Circuit des Ramperts in Angoulême a couple of years ago, where there these veteran racers also had a strong presence. (We were imposters, we turned up on veteran racing bikes) 'Patina' seems to be much more appreciated over there, a dream for folks who love weathering.

 

Looks like scratch building is the best option for recreating one of these machines ...

 

Paris to Angoulême by Mike, on Flickr

 

Paris to Angoulême by Mike, on Flickr

 

Paris to Angoulême by Mike, on Flickr

 

Paris to Angoulême by Mike, on Flickr

 

 

[malpaso]

There are the various Airfix and others veteran and vintage types that may provide a basis for wheels, chassis and so forth.  There have also been kits for Stutz Bearcat stripped down types and ICM have done a similar basic T in 1/24 - that with an Airfix Merlin aboard might be just the sort of mad thing you’re after?

[Quiet Mike]

23 hours ago, malpaso said:

There are the various Airfix and others veteran and vintage types that may provide a basis for wheels, chassis and so forth.  There have also been kits for Stutz Bearcat stripped down types and ICM have done a similar basic T in 1/24 - that with an Airfix Merlin aboard might be just the sort of mad thing you’re after?

 

 I very much like the idea of treating this like a scaled down version of the real thing, bying an Edwardian tourer just for the chassis, a WW1 suplus fighter for the engine, and then coach building what little bodywork is required ... 🤔

[keefr22]

15 minutes ago, Quiet Mike said:

 

 I very much like the idea of treating this like a scaled down version of the real thing, bying an Edwardian tourer just for the chassis, a WW1 suplus fighter for the engine, and then coach building what little bodywork is required ... 🤔

 

That sounds like an interesting project!

 

Keith

[Black Knight]

 

In my vintage car world, ie my car club

1. Veteran cars, aka Edwardian, are up to end of 1918,

Vintage is 1919 to end of 1930,

PVT  (Post- Vintage Thoroughbred) are 1931 to end of 1940

 

A good book to look out for is 'Aero Engined Cars at Brooklands' by Bill Boddy

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aero-engined-Racing-Cars-at-Brooklands/dp/0854298673

Its not a very thick book but it has loads of info on many of the cars. Enough to inspire some scratch-building

 

I have a 1/32 WW1 Mercedes D.III engine set aside for a Chitty Bang Bang car which I'll build some time

But a 1/32 copy of my 1930 Austin7 racer comes first

 

Depending on what scale you want to build there are kits out there even though they are hard to find

[Fastcat]

Hi Mike,

                 There are some resin kits available from slot-cars. They are almost always 1/32 scale and need some conversion work. See George Turner's kits amongst others.

 

Dave

[johnlambert]

To back up Black Knight.  As far as definitions go, the Veteran Car Club of Great Britain defines Veteran as anything built up to and including December 1904.   Edwardian is then anything made from January 1905 to December 1918.  Link here.

 

It would definitely be fun to see some kit-bashed would-be racers with suitable chassis and engines from large-scale aircraft kits.

[TonyW]

Nice idea for a project or two. Good luck with whatever you have a crack at.

 

 The Complete Car Modeller by Gerald Wingrove would be a good book to help with some of the scratch building. Copies are cheap enough on the internet.

[Paul H]

As far as I am aware, the VCC & VSCC have always agreed on the date definitions - the VSCC set the pre-'31 date, and iirc accepts '20s cars with rear wheel only braking as Edwardian for some competitive purposes (it's been a while since my VSCC membership lapsed as family took over my time).  Worth noting that the PVT definition (which was set by the VSCC) is not all '30s cars though - just certain marques and in some cases, certain models - to outsiders, it can seem elitist, but there is proper rhyme & reason behind it all.  I am guessing that Black Knight's club is the VSCC, or one that is closely aligned!

 

Going back to the OP's questions - thinking about it more, if happy to hack something about, Heller's 1:24 '20s & '30s car kits may well be able to donate a good chassis & other parts.  Whilst they can be a bit tricky to build, the prototypical accuracy is pretty good, and stuff that would have been hidden on the original model is still moulded, so would stand up to scrutiny if used for something like those Edwardian aero engined beasts.  ICM's Model T speedster, whilst very nice (I am looking forward to building mine), has the chassis moulded into the wings & floor, so may not be the best donor.  Its very distinctive suspension is also unsuitable.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Paul H