1/350 King George V with Eduard upgrades

[TeaWeasel]

So continuing my rather headfirst plunge back into scale modelling my fiance decided to surprise me for my birthday.

 

 

I haven't had much experience with naval models so this'll be both a challenge and a treat to work on. My main experience comes from the gargantuan 1/200 HMS Nelson which as of now is shelved indefinitely due to the impractically of displaying a 4 foot model anywhere. It did however give me a bit of practice working with etched brass of which I've stocked up for the KGV.

 

Given that this kit's from 1985 it's aged surprisingly well, although I would definitely recommend the PE sets just to set it apart. There are bits however which I will skip for the sake of my own sanity, one particular example being the octuple 20mm mounts. On the Nelson they were practically impossible, on these even smaller ones I'll just use the plastic. 

 

 

With this we have a whole set of railings and steps as well as upgrades for the main and secondary weapons and various hatches and cases scattered around the deck and superstructure.

 

 

Decided to start it simple and got the stand set up. Went together no issue, the mould lines however are a bit prominent however so I'm hoping the sanding and a coat of primer will hide those enough. 

 

 

I also started with the brass on one of the quad 14in turrets. Altogether this is relatively simple and rather enjoyable to see the final result. While the glue was setting I drilled out the appropriate holes in the decking and started filing away the anchor chains for the PE upgrades.

 

 

 

Where I'm absolutely stumped however is the best order for assembly. With aircraft it's relatively simple: paint cockpit, assemble the rest then paint the rest. With a ship however, where do I begin? Do I assemble the whole thing then paint as usual? Paint the superstructure and extra gubbins separately? What's the best option?

 

Thanks all, any comments and advice would be greatly appreciated. 

 

 

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Good morning Mr Weasel, and welcome to this bit of the forum.

 

It's an aging kit as you've noticed, but it's aging quite well overall. The only thing that's a bit nasty by modern standards is the join in the main deck half way along the length of the model, but it's not insurmountable.

 

To address your primary question first:

With a ship however, where do I begin? Do I assemble the whole thing then paint as usual? Paint the superstructure and extra gubbins separately? What's the best option?

 

This is quite personal however most experienced ship modellers build and paint in modules or subassemblies. The hull and main deck will be joined, tidied up and painted. The forward superstructure will be trial assembled to see what you'll be able to reach, mask off and paint nicely and what you won't. The general guidance is to assemble as large a chunk as you can still easily get all-round access to for painting. That probably implies leaving AA guns off until after painting, and if you're adding hand railing before painting (you get a stronger joint that way) then you probably won't be pre-assembling more than one deck level at a time very often.

 

Styles do vary though, so I'd urge above all not to worry too much about it and just try to enjoy it.

 

Regarding Pom Poms, Oerlikons and the like - there are nice 3D printed options now from MicroMaster and BlackCat which give a really nice result without the ground hog day assemblies of brass units. 

 

One final thing which either will not interest you at all, or if it does interest you will be much more useful now than it will be if I leave it until after you've started painting. Are you even vaguely interested in what colour the ship really was? (because Tamiya's instructions have made an interpretation on this but it's not correct). I tend to get "rivet counter" shouted at me by dribbling red-faced lunatics less here compared to Facebook groups for bringing this up, but either way it won't be forced upon you. The info is available if you want it...

[robgizlu]

Hi TeaWeasel - welcome to the nautical section.  Like the Meteor BTW - I too have an attraction and there are a couple in my stash to build!

 

Hopefully I'm not one of the "dribbling red-faced lunatics" (though if you'd seen me last Sat night after the rugby, you may have wondered )

For my part Jamie and his team have brought a rigour and academic analysis to the question of wartime colours that is utterly refreshing and liberating.   I personally buy into the careful revision and totally welcome the colour framework - makes our job as modellers hugely less anxiety inducing.

 

You may have noticed that he produces and sells the Colourcoats range.  They are super - my single best piece of advice would be to try them ASAP, buy the colourcoats thinners.  Once most people use them they stend to stick.  I'm moving my aircraft and AFVs to Colourcoats paints.

 

Jamie has pointed you the way of Micromaster and Blackcat.  When you see the detail - you'll be knocked out, though your wallet is likely to take a severe hit.   The important thing to always remember is that "Big Boys made you do it"

Looking forwards to seeing this come alive.

And if you want one single book as primer I'd direct you to "Modelling Naval Ships in Small Scales" by Mike McCabe

Best

Rob

[foeth]

1 hour ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

dribbling red-faced lunatics

 

That should be dribbling slate-faced lunatics; can't they do anything right 🤨

 

Usually I assemble as much as possible as long as I think I can reach all area's that need masking; so large bridges structure and turrets can be assembled, though the various upper deck parts of the bridge are probably best added one after the other.

Edited November 23, 2021 by foeth

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

9 minutes ago, robgizlu said:

Hi TeaWeasel - welcome to the nautical section.  Like the meteor BTW - I too have an attraction and there are a couple in my stash to build!

 [STUFF]

Best

Rob

 

Rob honestly I'm not sure whether to hit the Like, Laugh or Thanks button for that one.

[TeaWeasel]

5 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Good morning Mr Weasel, and welcome to this bit of the forum.

 

It's an aging kit as you've noticed, but it's aging quite well overall. The only thing that's a bit nasty by modern standards is the join in the main deck half way along the length of the model, but it's not insurmountable.

 

To address your primary question first:

 

 

 

This is quite personal however most experienced ship modellers build and paint in modules or subassemblies. The hull and main deck will be joined, tidied up and painted. The forward superstructure will be trial assembled to see what you'll be able to reach, mask off and paint nicely and what you won't. The general guidance is to assemble as large a chunk as you can still easily get all-round access to for painting. That probably implies leaving AA guns off until after painting, and if you're adding hand railing before painting (you get a stronger joint that way) then you probably won't be pre-assembling more than one deck level at a time very often.

 

Styles do vary though, so I'd urge above all not to worry too much about it and just try to enjoy it.

 

Regarding Pom Poms, Oerlikons and the like - there are nice 3D printed options now from MicroMaster and BlackCat which give a really nice result without the ground hog day assemblies of brass units. 

 

One final thing which either will not interest you at all, or if it does interest you will be much more useful now than it will be if I leave it until after you've started painting. Are you even vaguely interested in what colour the ship really was? (because Tamiya's instructions have made an interpretation on this but it's not correct). I tend to get "rivet counter" shouted at me by dribbling red-faced lunatics less here compared to Facebook groups for bringing this up, but either way it won't be forced upon you. The info is available if you want it...

 

Thanks very much on the offer. Tamiya themselves have two colour schemes on the instructions, the first looking a little dull and the other's quire garish, so some alternatives would be appreciated. Bit of research on here beforehand found a thread discussing the actual colours (might have been yours), and don't worry about being a rivet counter. 

 

I think my main concern would be breaking the colour up enough. I suppose the weathering will really help but like I said, this is a whole new world for me in terms of modelling so the weathering materials and techniques will all be new to me. 

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Super. Well it turns out Tamiya got both schemes wrong although in the absence of reliable literature on the subject that is forgivable. The Admiralty Disruptive camouflage offered on the box was removed and over-painted when the refit took place to make the ship structurally appear the way it does in the kit. I'll give you a timeline now just to show where different photos you may see fit in to the overall chronology:

 

From 1940 into the beginning of 1942 she wore overall Home Fleet Grey - this is how she appeared during the Bismarck action.

 

Not too long after refit following the collision with HMS Punjabi, she received her Admiralty Disruptive camouflage using the then standard MS&B series paints:

 

The MS&B paints were superseded from May 1943 onwards, and whilst the basic pattern remained the ship would necessarily have changed to a more blue appearance as she maintained her paint later in 1943.

 

Notice until now there is a catapult between the funnels and the ship's boats are stowed on top of the aft superstructure. She went into refit in 1944 where the catapult was removed, the hangars converted to living space, a new deck structure installed between the funnels upon which the boats were relocated. This freed up the aft superstructure for much more anti-aircraft weaponry with good arcs of fire. This is the configuration as portrayed by the parts in your kit. The HMS Prince of Wales boxing contains different sprues E, F and G and give the earlier configuration.

 

So from late 1944 until the end of the war she wore this - Scheme A as it was called, introduced in Confidential Admiralty Fleet Order 2269/44 and re-published in the 1945 edition of Confidential Book 3098(R).

 

Note that it's not two greys but rather a grey and a distinct blue-grey. This is HMS Renown in the Pacific wearing the same two paints, as well as HMS Birmingham - these give different perspectives on the colours in different lighting conditions and different cameras although the relationship clearly isn't just two neutral greys:

 

 

 

 

Fear not about lack of visual interest though - there's plenty scope for weathering. Here's KGV in June 1945. You can see plenty areas where topcoat has peeled away down to primer coats and there's plenty staining from runoff water along the shear line.

[TeaWeasel]

11 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Super. Well it turns out Tamiya got both schemes wrong although in the absence of reliable literature on the subject that is forgivable. The Admiralty Disruptive camouflage offered on the box was removed and over-painted when the refit took place to make the ship structurally appear the way it does in the kit. I'll give you a timeline now just to show where different photos you may see fit in to the overall chronology:

 

From 1940 into the beginning of 1942 she wore overall Home Fleet Grey - this is how she appeared during the Bismarck action.

 

 

Bloody hell, thanks for the extensive info, nice bit of reading for tomorrow.

 

Had a couple spare hours tonight so started with the anchor chains. They're just an exercise in patience and masochism. 

 

 

 

[S-boat 55]

I know what you mean re masochism, there are times I think that's really all this hobby is,

 

I shall follow your build if you don't mind, KGV is one of those ships I fancy doing but at some point when I eventually get through the dozen others sort of thing, 

[ArnoldAmbrose]

1 hour ago, S-boat 55 said:

I know what you mean re masochism, there are times I think that's really all this hobby is,

Nah, wait 'til you've been whipped by a six foot tall dominatrix wearing black latex and thigh boots, THEN you'll know about masochism 😛.   (Or so I'm told).

 

Seriously, I'll be following the build too. Regards, Jeff.

[S-boat 55]

2 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Nah, wait 'til you've been whipped by a six foot tall dominatrix wearing black latex and thigh boots, THEN you'll know about masochism 😛.   (Or so I'm told).

 

Seriously, I'll be following the build too. Regards, Jeff.

Well if you'll pardon the pun - it's whatever floats your boat, 😉 - I'll show myself out.....

[ArnoldAmbrose]

26 minutes ago, S-boat 55 said:

I'll show myself out.....

Yeah, and I'll come too.😳

 

Personal opinion of course, but I think the KGV class were one of the best looking battleships of the WW2 era. To me they looked modern, balanced, fast and tough. I know they weren't the fastest, far from it, but they looked it. Regards, Jeff.

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

On 11/23/2021 at 1:03 PM, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

 

Characteristically clear and comprehensive advice from Jamie, there.  And what a stunning photograph of a hard-worked warship; every time you look you see something else that’s interesting.  Superb!

[SallysDad]

I have always liked this ship. 

I'll be watching too.

[TeaWeasel]

Little bit of progress recently, although I've been juggling it along with a very busy work period, a 1/48 Meteor and various 40k projects. 

 

I decided to go for one more aftermarket part, one which I think is essential to any ship build; turned metal barrels. I think if you can only go for one aftermarket set, it has to be turned barrels, just as a good cockpit upgrade is essential for any aircraft kit.

 

I was initially put off a fair bit with the hassle I had with the turned barrels for the 1/200 Nelson. The replacement mounts were far too flimsy for the barrel and didn't provide any support, so the thing just droops under its own weight. These on the other hand were much easier as they simply replaced the barrel with no changes to the original mount.

 

 

These went together very nicely, little bit of superglue residue but that's not visible on the final product.

 

 

And here we have the twin-turret and one of the quads. The twin still needs the photoetch upgrades but the difference between the original plastic and turned metal is immediately evident.

 

That's all for now, next steps will be just extra bits here and there on the deck and superstructure. 

 

[S-boat 55]

Out of curiosity whose barrels are they, I've used model master in the past, are they aber ones?

[TeaWeasel]

2 minutes ago, S-boat 55 said:

Out of curiosity whose barrels are they, I've used model master in the past, are they aber ones?

 

From what I can gather they're just called "Master" ones.

 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SM350-012?result-token=K55wf

 

 

[TeaWeasel]

A very long time has passed since I took a look at this kit, for a few reasons:

 

• I was getting pretty sick of the somewhat ridiculous Eduard bits.
• Since the last update I've become a dad and we've moved flat so it was boxed up on a shelf for a while.

I've decided to finally try to get this finished in 2023. With that in mind I've decided to just leave off a significant portion of the Eduard stuff, mostly for my own sanity. Things like the 20mm gun shields for example; once it's painted you will probably never know it's a PE upgrade over the real thing. Any PE I've already applied I'll do so on the other side to maintain symmetry, and the railings around the deck edge I'll also use, anything else will be left off by default unless I decide it's worth the effort. I suspect there'll be some who will scoff at this approach, but oh well.

 

So the main superstructure is fully glued now. As expected with Tamiya the fit was excellent. The structures supporting the 5" guns was next, again no issues there.

 

 

The boat deck still needs filling out, I may paint the rest of them separately and attack afterwards. You can see some of the railing work on the left, that I'll duplicate where necessary, but even that was a headache.

 

 

 

Towards the stern, I've added the remaining ports(?) for the 20mm Oerlikons, overall not much else has happened here.

 

 

Here's a progress shot so far. It's definitely nice to see some progress amongst the mess that is my workstation. I'm still unsure about the best way to paint it however, not the colours, moreso the order in which to do it. I gather it's best to do the hull first obviously, but how to follow from there?

 

• Paint the deck and mask it off when it comes to the superstructure? Sounds the easier option but the delicate parts may be damaged by masking
• Paint the superstructure first then mask it off for the deck? Same issue really.

 

I have a 1/200 Nelson at home gathering dust for the same reason. Any better shipwrights able to advise?

 

Cheers,

Joe

 

 

 

[Gondor44]

6 minutes ago, TeaWeasel said:

I've decided to finally try to get this finished in 2023. With that in mind I've decided to just leave off a significant portion of the Eduard stuff, mostly for my own sanity. Things like the 20mm gun shields for example; once it's painted you will probably never know it's a PE upgrade over the real thing. Any PE I've already applied I'll do so on the other side to maintain symmetry, and the railings around the deck edge I'll also use, anything else will be left off by default unless I decide it's worth the effort. I suspect there'll be some who will scoff at this approach, but oh well.

 

Cheers,

Joe

 

 

I would say that unless you are building the model for someone and they have specified what level of detail is to be fitted then it is entirely up to you have much and of what type of detail you want fited to the model.

On the assumption that you are building the model for yourself then build it for yourself and not for the peanut gallery!

Too many people get hung up on if a particular detail is right or not. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it probably is a duck as the saying goes.

Hope your getting some sleep with the new addition to the family and the best of luck with the rest of the build.

 

Gondor

[TeaWeasel]

5 hours ago, Gondor44 said:

 

I would say that unless you are building the model for someone and they have specified what level of detail is to be fitted then it is entirely up to you have much and of what type of detail you want fited to the model.

On the assumption that you are building the model for yourself then build it for yourself and not for the peanut gallery!

Too many people get hung up on if a particular detail is right or not. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it probably is a duck as the saying goes.

Hope your getting some sleep with the new addition to the family and the best of luck with the rest of the build.

 

Gondor

 

Thanks for the kind words, once you get past that mentality it becomes much more enjoyable. 

[Rich75]

Glad to see this on the go again, congratulations on your new addition to the family too, I would say it's easier to paint the superstructures, in stages, before glueing them on but, as you have glued them now I would think it may be (slightly) easier to mask the vertical surfaces than the flat ones as they are quite angular, or round, so I would do those first and then mask them off to do the deck, Someone else may well say the opposite but you can decide what you think will work best, either way there's some masking to do, take your time with it and it will look great 👍🏻 

[TeaWeasel]

On 09/01/2023 at 11:18, Rich75 said:

Glad to see this on the go again, congratulations on your new addition to the family too, I would say it's easier to paint the superstructures, in stages, before glueing them on but, as you have glued them now I would think it may be (slightly) easier to mask the vertical surfaces than the flat ones as they are quite angular, or round, so I would do those first and then mask them off to do the deck, Someone else may well say the opposite but you can decide what you think will work best, either way there's some masking to do, take your time with it and it will look great 👍🏻 

 

Thanks for the tip. I think some touch-ups with a brush might be necessary but that seems the most straightforwards approach.

 

Despite my ramblings about PE last time I did have another crack on some smaller pieces. The 5" turrets were suitably enhanced with ladders and hatches.

 

 

You can see the turret on the right has received some upgrades. Unfortunately the larger ladder for the other side of the turret was lost to the carpet monster, so that particular one will have to go on the starboard rear mount, won't be visible there anyway. I also had another go on the staircases, removed the existing plastic one, used a bit of Ammo putty to smooth out any damage and replaced it with the larger stairs you see there between the rafts. Pretty happy with how that one turned out.

 

 

Assembled more of the superstructure and added some more PE. The staircase in the upper centre was actually suppose to link the lower deck to the 20mm mount deck, was far too short despite Eduard's instructions so placed it there instead.

 

And while all that was drying I did a batch of the 20mm Oerlikons, she definitely looks a little fiercer with those.

 

 

I think from now on my strategy will have to be to focus on the superstructure, get that ready for painting. Once that's done I can add bits here and there after painting them separately. The masts and radar arrays look far too delicate to leave on while painting.

 

Thanks all, any comments appreciated.

 

Joe

 

 

 

 

[bissyboat]

Looking good. Proficient use of photo etched parts. ⚓👍