Which fighter aircraft would Argentina have used had Peròn sided officially with the Axis?

[Sturmovik]

Had Argentina officially sided with the Axis during 1942/43, which aircraft would the FAA had used: Bf 109F-4 or Fw 190A-2 (1942)/Fw 190A-5 (1943).

 

 

 

Don't want a political discussion in the comments, just want to know which aircraft could have been used by Argentina.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Sturmovik

[rossm]

Bf109s were supplied to the Italians, Fw190s were not AFAIK so I'd go for 109s.

[Sturmovik]

9 minutes ago, rossm said:

Bf109s were supplied to the Italians, Fw190s were not AFAIK so I'd go for 109s.

Please vote instead of commenting, it'll help make my decision easier instead of having to scroll down the comments section.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Sturmovik

[Selwyn]

They probably would not have had either, as there would be no feasable way to get the aircraft across the South Atlantic to Argentina in that time period.

 

Selwyn

[Sturmovik]

18 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

They probably would not have had either, as there would be no feasable way to get the aircraft across the South Atlantic to Argentina in that time period.

 

Selwyn

Luckily I wrote "what if" in the title, so that kind of stuff doesn't bother me.

[exdraken]

Messerschmitts, and Ju-88s I'd say.

Spain also got Bf 109, E and G models afaik

Switzerland got Bf 109 without even official siding.... !

 

The question would be though... what if! Would the war have spread to South America as well? ... "World war" anyone?

Brazil definitely supported the US, even with pilots for Thunderbolts that were used in Italy, at least in 44/45

[Black Knight]

36 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

They probably would not have had either, as there would be no feasable way to get the aircraft across the South Atlantic to Argentina in that time period.

Actually, the Japanese and Germans were using submarines to exchange goods, including whole aeroplanes

 

I voted for the Messerschmitt 109.

I think the Germans would have arranged for the Argies to build their own, in the same way the Spanish did

[cmatthewbacon]

Given what FMA actually built, I suspect the answer is some interesting hybrid between a Curtis Hawk and Fw190, though in the scenario where WW2 has a South American theatre, I think they'd have struggled against Brazilian P-47s and the Chilean Spitfire VIIIs and Mustangs...

 

best,

M.

[Selwyn]

2 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Actually, the Japanese and Germans were using submarines to exchange goods, including whole aeroplanes

And just how many aircraft  did get exchanged?  enough  to equip a flight? 

 

Selwyn

[Sturmovik]

6 minutes ago, exdraken said:

Would the war have spread to South America as well? ...

Maybe it could have ended as it did with Spain, Axis friendly but non-combatant. Though the F-4 would have been outclassed by the Thunderbolt by 1944.

 

4 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

think the Germans would have arranged for the Argies to build their own, in the same way the Spanish did

That's a neat scenario! Didn't think of that.

[Sturmovik]

1 minute ago, Selwyn said:

And just how many aircraft  did get exchanged?  enough  to equip a flight? 

 

Selwyn

The sole 109E-7 made way to the Ki 61, so I think it was able to equip several squadrons.

 

 

[Selwyn]

2 minutes ago, Sturmovik said:

The sole 109E-7 made way to the Ki 61, so I think it was able to equip several squadrons.

 

 

So just the one then,

 

Selwyn

[Black Knight]

6 minutes ago, Selwyn said:

And just how many aircraft  did get exchanged?  enough  to equip a flight? 

The Japanese got 7 109s, several Ar196, some He.111s, some Me.262s and 162s. They also exchanged machine tools. The Germans got hard gold in payment, to pay their war bill.

[alt-92]

5 minutes ago, Sturmovik said:

The sole 109E-7 made way to the Ki 61

OT, but it was only used as a comparison/study object.  The plans for the Ki-60/61 were made in 1939 already.

[exdraken]

18 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

I think the Germans would have arranged for the Argies to build their own, in the same way the Spanish did

So maybe many more would still be around them... re-engined with Merlins maybe.... FAA Tripala, Buchon.... later transiting to late model Spitfires and finally Meteors...

Or the Pulqui II would have been more of a success...

 

So much what if here

 

 

[Sturmovik]

4 minutes ago, exdraken said:

 

So much what if here

The possibilities are endless, but to keep my sanity, I'll go with a simple out of the box model. Maybe I'll paint it in German colours (sans the yellow cowling and rudder), add the Argentinian flag on the rudder, and call it a day (because I want to use as much paint as possible before my tins dry up). Another option would be an NMF plane. That's still undecided.

Don't forget to vote for your favourite plane! The 109 is currently 6 votes ahead, against, well, 0 of the 190.

[Jochen Barett]

The 109.

 

Remember those "entire" Fw 190 wings on rail? Bf 109 is easier to transport by rail (will apply to "ship", Cargolifter-Zeppelin etc. too).

 

http://joes-modellbahnlaedle.net/Maerklin-45088-Flachwagen-Paar-Flugzeugtransport-der-DR-beladen

 

 

[Black Knight]

The Japanese also had some very large submarines, the I-400 class, with an aeroplane hanger. Only three 400 class were built but we are in Whif Land

 

27 minutes ago, Sturmovik said:

. . . Maybe I'll paint it in German colours (sans the yellow cowling and rudder), add the Argentinian flag on the rudder, and call it a day. . .

if it was me, and I may copy you, I'd do a scheme more in keeping with South America's landscape colours. Maybe pale/light blue underneath, top sides, a soft disruptive scheme of three shades of green

[Sturmovik]

7 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

South America's landscape colours.

That's a cool idea, maybe a combination of RLM 74 (I must use it before it dries up), 70 and 71 with 65 undersides. That camo could be used in the Northernmost areas of Argentina, with a tropical weather.

However, I'm more interested in a capital defender, where the normal colours would be used. But I'll definitely have your camo idea in mind.

 

[Werdna]

If we're going full 'what if', then I would have the FAA flying licence-built Heinkel He100s.

[RainierHooker]

I figure that Turkey makes a good proxy for Argentina in this case. A medium sized developed, but still developing country. Turkey received 72 Fw. 190A-3a (the A-3a being the export model of the 190) in 1942 and '43. I'd probably also use the Turkish aircraft as a reference for markings as they received standard RLM finishes with the Turkish flag on the rudder and Turkish emblems on the wings...

 

[JWM]

8 hours ago, Sturmovik said:

The sole 109E-7 made way to the Ki 61, so I think it was able to equip several squadrons.

Weren't they Heinkel 112 and He 100/113 rather the Messerschmitt?

There were 12 of He 112 in Japan Navy as Wiki says: "The Imperial Japanese Navy purchased 12 Heinkel He 112B-0 fighters, which it designated both as the Heinkel A7He1 and as the Navy Type He Air Defense Fighter. The Japanese flew the A7He1 briefly during the Second Sino-Japanese War, but phased it out of service before the attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941 in favor of the Mitsubishi A6M Zero. Assuming it still to be in Japanese use, however, the Allies assigned the reporting name "Jerry" to the A7He1 during World War II".

And about the He 100/113: "The Japanese were also looking for new designs, notably those using inline engines, where they had little experience and purchased the three D-0s for 1.2 million RM, as well as a license for production and a set of jigs for another 1.6 million RM. The three D-0s arrived in Japan in May 1940 and were re-assembled at Kasumigaura. They were then delivered to the Japanese Naval Air Force where they were renamed AXHei, for "Experimental Heinkel Fighter".[4] When referring to the German design, the aircraft is called both the He 100 and He 113, with at least one set of plans bearing the latter name.

The prototypes were accompanied by Heinkel test pilot Gerhard Nitschke, who worked with Lieutenant Mitsugi Kofukuda during the tesing and evaluation.[5] The Navy was so impressed by tests that they planned to put the aircraft into production as soon as possible, as their land-based interceptor. (Unlike every other armed forces organization in the world, the Japanese Army and Navy both fielded complete land-based air forces.) Hitachi won the contract for the aircraft and started construction of a factory in Chiba for its production. With the European war on, the jigs and plans never arrived.[4]"

When you look at He 100 and Ki-60 or Ki 61  the similarities are more obvious then with Messerschmitt. However, the successes of the latest were for sure inspiring Japan generals and constructors...

Regards

J-W

 

[Ed Russell]

A mixture of Curtiss Hawk 75s and Curtiss F11C Goshawks accompanied by a motley crew of Dewoitines. Maybe the Breguet 19 might have got a role as a fighter if things got tough!

[Black Knight]

This is drifting too far off base.

Sturmovik just wants us to help him choose between a Messer 109F and a Fw.190 - no other types

[Ed Russell]

Not really........ read the title. There is no option in his vote for "None of the above" 😀