Hawkgrove Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 I've gotten back into modeling since retiring a year ago. After seeing the documentary Above and Beyond, the story of the Damn Yankee B-17F and the fate of the captan and crew I decided I have to model that aircraft. I purchased the Academy B-17F kit which appears the closest to the aircraft. I'll replace the wheels with Armory Models weighted wheels and a combination of decals that I'll create and use some after market sheets. I'll also scratch build the radio room which is lacking in the Academy kit, even though it won't be seen I enjoy adding details. My biggest question is the nose gun in the front plexiglass. Has anyone ever kit bashed that into an existing dome or is there an aftermarket one I haven't found yet? I've attached a picture of the Damn Yankee with the nose gun visible and one from another B-17 that looks similar. Any additional information on this type of gun port and modeling it would be greatly appreciated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 First of all: How you like to display the Fortress? On the ground in parked position? If so, there are no guns onstalled at all! This is a prime error most modeller do. No matter which air force, all guns removed when a/c is parked. Happy modelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airgunner Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 9 minutes ago, dov said: First of all: How you like to display the Fortress? On the ground in parked position? If so, there are no guns onstalled at all! This is a prime error most modeller do. No matter which air force, all guns removed when a/c is parked. Happy modelling Both of those photos would suggest otherwise…the top photo shows the nose guns to have covers on. Given the top turret is covered I’d suggest they ‘may’ be removed, but not certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) @Hawkgrove, First off, the 2nd photo you posted shows an experimental 20mm cannnon and mount. There were several variations seen on B-17F's for guns mounted in the nose cone, with the one in the photo you posted being one of the most common. FWIW, some variations were: single .50 cal gun centrally mounted in a trapedoidal opening single .50 cal gun mounted in a ball/socket or canvas covered boot two .50 cal guns mounted either side of the center in ball and socket mounts two .50 cal guns mounted together on the centerline. (I believe this was a mount normally fitted in the tail gun position and had a canvas boot over the guns Due to the weight and recoil associated with the .50 cal weapon, there was usually a framework of metal tubing fitted that fit inside the curvature of the plexiglass nose cap. (The .30 cal guns fitted to B-17E's and earlier versions did not need this reinforcement due to the lighter weight and recoil of the smaller caliber gun.) Mike This linked article has text and photos that show the evolution of B-17 nose guns that might be useful: http://legendsintheirowntime.com/LiTOT/B17/B17_noseguns.html Here are some photos that might be of use: https://b17flyingfortress.de/cms/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/media-26791-600x486.jpg http://imageshack.us/a/img18/9531/b17thelaststraw.jpg https://media.defense.gov/2006/Jun/01/2000554780/1088/820/0/060517-F-1234S-021.JPG https://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/usa/aircrafts/b-17/B-17_nose_art_The_Hag_of_Harderwyk.jpg https://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/usa/aircrafts/b-17/B-17F_388th_Bomb_Group_Old_Ironsides.jpg Edited November 22, 2021 by 72modeler added link, added text 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 You may have been better off starting from the Revell B-17F kit, That has a nose-dome with a gun mount very similar to you photos, to which I added the strengthening frame. I used that part on my build, but someone building Memphis Belle may well have it leftover. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkgrove Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 Thanks, this is all helpful. The best photo I can find of the Damn Yankee is my top one and its hard to see if it has the support framework. From most photos I've seen it looks like the trapedoidal mount visible in the picture always has the support rods so I'll assume the Damn Yankee has the same. I went with the Academy over the Revell because Academy had the navigator dome, wasn't paying attention to the nose gun option. I'll display it parked but will make the mistake of having the guns installed, still like how that looks. Does anyone know if the Squadron Crystal Clear Canopy vacuform replacements for the B-17F (9175) have the nose with the gun mount option? I've tried to find some more detailed pictures of whats included in the package and it appears to have two different nose domes, just can't see what the details on them are. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomprobert Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) I can’t add any more detail to what you’ve been given regarding the nose gun set up, B-17s had the cooling jackets of the guns permanently fixed in place, meaning when the main body of the gun was removed, the jackets remained in place. In these images you can see the guns have been removed, but the hollow jackets are still in position, so it looks as if the guns are installed. Check out the one of the top turret. http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/10336 Edited November 22, 2021 by tomprobert 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplasticsurgeon Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Hawkgrove said: went with the Academy over the Revell because Academy had the navigator dome, wasn't paying attention to the nose gun option. Revell has alternate parts for the astrodome as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafu35 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Hello, Hawkgrove. I did it when I realized Miss Ouachita. Model is Revell's one. I drilled a hole in nose's piece, then I used tissue paper to represent the tarp: This modification was often done in unit, so we can do this work as we see fit. And as say Tomprobert, the cannon's perforated cooling tubes remained on the plane, and the gunners brought in the weapon that was stored in the armory between missions. I just watched the movie Target for Today, and the camera follows the crews getting off the trucks with their guns. At 47'23"... Happy modeling Eric-Snafu35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkgrove Posted November 24, 2021 Author Share Posted November 24, 2021 Thank you Snafu, thats the direction I was leaning. The academy kit comes with two different plexiglass noses and I can experiment on one first. I also see you have flat glass covering the astrodome, I was wondering if that was another variation other than the dome glass. When I look at the picture of the Damn Yankee I see the dome lip on the nose but not a clear dome so I assume it might be flat glass. Good information, I'm still learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 @Hawkgrove, Here's a photo I found just now that shows the single gun mount and tubular reinforcing structure very well. Hope you can use it. This one force landed in Switzerland. 42-30080, High Life, from the 351st BS, 100th BG Mike https://swissinternees.tripod.com/42-30080.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkgrove Posted November 27, 2021 Author Share Posted November 27, 2021 Thanks 72modeler, couldn't open the image but googled the aircraft specifics you sent and think this might be the view. It is a good clear shot of the port and bracing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snafu35 Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 On 24/11/2021 at 16:45, Hawkgrove said: I also see you have flat glass covering the astrodome, I was wondering if that was another variation other than the dome glass. When I look at the picture of the Damn Yankee I see the dome lip on the nose but not a clear dome so I assume it might be flat glass. Hello, Hawkgrove, According to my readings, the astrodome was installed on the F model from August 1942 for block 27-BO and following, December 1942 for block 15-DL and following, and November 1942 for block 15-VE and following. There would have been conversion kits delivered in units, to equip certain earlier models not provided. I was able to see an astrodome location in several photos of B17, but I can not see the blown transparent dome. The astrodome could be opened and removed from inside the aircraft:. http://heroicrelics.org/champaign-aviation/b-17-restoration-2014-05/dsca4766.jpg.html You can see in this photo the dome locking clips I can't imagine the dome open when the B17 is in flight. I deduced that there could be flat windows, probably supplied in replacement kits. Here is a 50 cal mount with another mount: this assembly supports two cal 50 twinned this shot clearly shows on the B17 in the foreground the mounting in the nose, and the empty and unarmed cooling cannons: I am delighted to see your construction. I've built eight B17s myself, and the next one ( The new Airfix) is on the desktop. Enjoy in modeling! Regards, Eric-Snafu35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 13 hours ago, Hawkgrove said: Thanks 72modeler, couldn't open the image but googled the aircraft specifics you sent and think this might be the view. It is a good clear shot of the port and bracing. Yep- that's the one! I will remove the dead link from my post- sorry! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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