Fulmar and RN Top Aces

[Flavio]

Hi all,

I am collecting information about the Fulmars flown by RN top aces from 806 Sq. (Orr, Sewell, Barnes). Not being an expert, I started from some very interesting posts in the Forum (especially those created by  @Grey Beema @tonyot and @iang) and the article from "Model Aircraft Monthly" (August 2007 issue)  by Tony O'Toole @tonyot.

 

However, I recently came across a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5_pRzxepeQ) that can add further information to the topic.

 

 

This video was probably recorded in late 1940, and shows three Fulmars of 806 NAS in flight ("P", "G", "X") and ready to take off from a north African airbase (note the palm trees on the background). Coincidentally, Sub.Lt. G. Hogg wrote in his diary dated 5 December 1940 while stationed at Alexandria [from the book “806 Naval Air Squadron” by Cull and Galea]: “A press photographer came today and White Section (us) were his subjects. He took pictures of us getting into our cockpits, starting up, formation flying and fighter attacks”.

 

Here below, I tried to summarize in a color profile all the information collected. The subject is the famous Orr’s N1884/K on HMS Illustrious in November 1940. Unfortunately, without photographic evidences of this very plane, all the assumptions are based on comparison with similar planes.

 

Please add your comments; additions and corrections will be welcomed.

Thank you

Flavio

 

·        Fulmar N1884 was an early Mk.I model, recognizable by the high demarcation line between upper and lower camouflage and the broad Fin Flash.

 

 

·        S.1E camouflage scheme consisting of Sky Grey undersides which came half way up the side of the fuselage to meet the upper surface scheme of Dark Slate Grey and Extra Dark Sea Grey. As pictorial evidences indicate that there were at least three different styles of applying this scheme, I followed T.O’Toole notes on MAM article. The best reference for Orr's N1884 are Fulmars N1860/M and N1886/R of 806 NAS, which would have preceded and just followed N1884 on the production line. Both Fulmars featured the angled demarcation line that ends level with the tailplane, and this was likely to have been the last style applied before the Fulmar changed over to Sky undersides and the lower demarcation between upper and lower surfaces [around N1910]. It appears that with this scheme the whole rudder was painted in Sky Grey. Still according to T.O’Toole MAM article, the camouflage follows the 'B Scheme' pattern, as befits an aircraft with an even-numbered serial number.

 

Evidences from the video are:

·        the so-called “spaghetti” camouflage on the wing leading edge and nose (spinner included).  The background color, in this case, appears to be Aluminium, exactly how was settled by a statement on the Operational Record Book of the Repair and Maintenance Branch dated October 1940. The irregular mottles were probably painted with the available colors (Extra Dark Sea Grey, Dark Sea Grey…) Noteworthy, it seems that also the upper-wing roots were painted somehow with Aluminium dope (see red arrows).

 

·        IFF markings consisting in Black underside left wing and White underside right one, both without underwing national roundels. The IFF markings were seemingly reintroduced when HMS Illustrious operated in the Mediterranean [September 1940] according to RAF overseas orders of the time where IFF equipment was still not present.

 

·        Individual code letter with a tiny white border (probably chalked on) in correspondence of the top dark colors.

 

One last point deserves the presence of the 806’s Black Panther badge on the rudder. The photo published in the book  “806 Naval Air Squadron” by Cull/Galea, displaying Fulmars “A” and “B” in flight with the new logo, is noteworthy and very interesting. Moreover, by matching this picture with the aircraft code letters /serial numbers given on the Claim List Appendix of the book, it’s even possible try to identify these two aircraft as Fulmar N1940/6A and N1879/6B.

However things are not that simple. Apart from the doubts that already arose on this Forum about the reliability of the letters/serial numbers furbished by Cull/Galea, there are several discrepancies:
•    At one point (since 10 Nov 1940 onward) N1940 become both 6A and 6B.
•    If the serial number is correct, N1940 should have had the camouflage with lower demarcation line between upper and lower surfaces with Sky undersides and small size Fin Flash.
•    According to some source (i.e. the instruction sheet of Fairey Fulmar Special Hobby 48157 model kit), Fulmar “B” is identify as N1932/B from 805 Squadron based at Maleme Crete 1941….. Awaiting further information I didn't add it to my profile. 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Flavio

[Troy Smith]

5 hours ago, Flavio said:

Not being an expert, I started from some very interesting posts in the Forum (especially those created by Grey Beema) and the article from "Model Aircraft Monthly" (August 2007 issue)  by Tony O'Toole.

you need to 'tag'  members,  by using the @

and then type their name,  eg @Grey Beema @tonyot  I'd also recommend @iang   for info  on early FAA camo and markings.

 

Regarding youtube, look for a downloader,  some give  options of various quality grades,  use the highest, and you can then play on media player, like VLC media player (freeware) , and this has the ability to do screenshots and advance frame by frame.   You may already know this be can be very useful for getting a good screenshot of a particular detail.

HTH

[ClaudioN]

Hi Flavio,

 

thank you very much for the video and for the very interesting summary on the Fulmar and its camouflage in its early months in service.

 

I assume you know about the book "Fleet Air Arm Camouflage and Markings" by Stuart Lloyd (Dalrymple & Verdun), which has been mentioned in several posts here on BM. The book includes a good photo of Fulmar 'X', that appears in the video you linked above and might possibly be a still from it.

Your remarks about camouflage details are very accurate and careful and, in my opinion, your intuition in linking the video to the entry in Hogg's diary is a great one.

 

I'd like to comment on the camouflage demarcation line in your profile of N1884 and your choice of Sky Grey as the underside colour.

Early Fulmars went through a variety of subtle changes, some of which are not too evident in black and white images, that are discussed in "Fleet Air Arm Camouflage and Markings". The pattern you present, with the camouflage demarcation gently sloping up to the leading edge of the tailplane, is correct for N1860:M, as well as for Nxxx6:R, as you say. On Fulmar 'G' in the video, the demarcation is straight, followed by a sharp step up, close to the tailplane. On Fulmars 'P' and 'X', the demarcation carries on below the tailplane, meaning that, in this case, the area is in camouflage.

These three patterns are in rough chronological sequence and, based on this alone, I have always questioned the identification of Nxxx6:R (only the '6' is clearly visible in a photo, as it is a three-quarter rear view from starboard) as N1886 (or even N1986!). In my opinion, 'R' is N1866 and the upward sloping demercation is indicative of the early S.1E camouflage with Sky Grey undersides.

 

However, Sky was assumed to replace Sky Grey as early as mid-June 1940 and this caused some confusion as regards camouflage schemes. TSS came later and, as you note, the change to TSS on Fulmars took place around N1910, when the demarcation to the undersurface colour was moved to the lower fuselage. In between, there must have been over 30 airframes factory-finished in EDSG/DSG/Sky with the high demarcation and the stright line and a few (no more than 10?) with the stepped demarcation that suggests a last-minute change from Sky Grey to Sky. I believe that, in the video, 'G', 'P' and 'X' are all finished in Sky, with black/white ID undersides. 'G' must have the earliest serial, around N187x.

My bet is that N1884:K would have the straight camouflage demarcation continuing under the tailplane to the rudder post, with Sky rather than Sky Grey as the undersurface colour.

 

Taking the 5 December 1940 date as correct, the video seems to provide some evidence that the black panther badge did not appear on rudders before 1941.

 

The photo of 'A' and 'B' showing the black panther badge (that appears both in "806 Naval Air Squadron" by Cull and Galea and in "Fleet Air Arm Camouflage and Markings" by Stuart Lloyd, aka @iang) also clearly shows that 'A' has the stepped demarcation line (hence, serial around N187x), while on 'B' the line continues straight below the tailplane (serial between N188x and N1893). 'A' cannot be N1940 in that photo, as N1940 would definitely have a low camouflage demarcation as per TSS.

Matching codes and serials becomes more difficult from January 1941 after the formation of No. 805 Sqn at Dekheila. This unit seemingly applied letter codes with the '7' numeral prefix, as befit the second unit at the same location, and this was carried in full (i.e., 7A, 7B, 7C, ...), unlike 806 Sqn. If N1932 was 'B' at Maleme, it might perhaps be '7B', and a different machine from 'B' of 806 Sqn and, shortly later, 'B' of 803 Sqn.

 

Claudio

 

 

Edited November 20, 2021 by ClaudioN

[Flavio]

Thank you Claudio,

 

for your post. I really appreciate your notes.

 

No, unfortunately I have not the book "Fleet Air Arm Camouflage and Markings" by Stuart Lloyd. I suppose Fulmar "X" appears very similar to the Fulmars on the video I referred to.

By the way, looking closely at the video, if you refer to the stills I posted, you will note that the plane on stilll nr.2 had a individual letter with a slope "right leg"  (I mean like R,K,X), barely visible under the port wing. This plane is not Fulmar "P" neither the Fulmar on the first still (compare the mottles on the nose).

 

Flavio

 

 

[ClaudioN]

4 hours ago, Flavio said:

I suppose Fulmar "X" appears very similar to the Fulmars on the video I referred to.

The photo in the book corresponds almost exactly to your second still.

 

4 hours ago, Flavio said:

By the way, looking closely at the video, if you refer to the stills I posted, you will note that the plane on stilll nr.2 had a individual letter with a slope "right leg"  (I mean like R,K,X), barely visible under the port wing.

I can't see any... could you help?

 

4 hours ago, Flavio said:

This plane is not Fulmar "P" neither the Fulmar on the first still (compare the mottles on the nose).

My interpretation of the video is: 'P' (assumed) starting up, then pilot boarding 'P' (is that Sub-Lt. Hogg?), long shot of 'P' (foreground) and 'X' (background) warming up, then 'X' taxying with a sailor holding the port wing tip.

In-flight formation images show 'P' leading, with 'X' to port and 'G' to starboard. Again, if 'P' leads, the pilot might be Sub-Lt. Hogg.

 

Claudio

[Flavio]

Hi Claudio here a comparison between the stills hoping to explain what I mean:

 

 

 Your interpretation is correct. Fulmar on still nr.1 is different from Fulmar on still nr.2, probably still nr.1 is "P" (compatible with still nr.3) , while still nr.2 might be "X".

 

Good point: "if 'P' leads, the pilot might be Sub-Lt. Hogg". Yes, it will be great if was that!

 

Flavio

Edited November 21, 2021 by Flavio

[tonyot]

It looks excellent and I`m glad that some of my ramblings have been of use.