Hunt class HMS Ledbury colours

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday All, I'd like to do a model of the Hunt class destroyer HMS Ledbury. This ship escorted the convoy PQ-17 and Operation Pedestal. I've got a few black-and-white images of her but don't know the actual colours. I try to get the camo patterns of ships correct if I can so if anyone has a colour photo, or a link that could help me equate the grey shades of most photos into colours I'd be grateful.

Many thanks. Regards, Jeff.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Hi Jeff,

 

Not sure if I know the answer but to narrow the possibilities a bit, do you mean this scheme?

 

 

Or this one?

 

[Our Ned]

Jamie,

 

The second photo you posted is a censored version of this one: http://www.naval-history.net/Photo11deFarndale1NPGeorgeKnight.JPG . It shows a ship with pendant number L70 - HMS Farndale.  I've not seen photos showing Ledbury in the scheme in your second photo.

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies, @Our Ned, I have a copy of 'Janes" that lists pendant numbers, HMS Ledbury having L90, as in the upper photo. Regarding the second photo, I've seen it too with L70. So I guess as in the first photo please, if possible. Many thanks. Regards, Jeff.

[robgizlu]

In CAFO 2146 42 - the colours are depicted as Light = M.S.4 and Dark = 507.A.

The scheme is identical

HTH

Rob

[dickrd]

It would be helpful if Jeff could post a photo of the scheme he is asking the colours of.  However if I were modelling Ledbury at the time of PQ17 & Pedestal I would be doing her in her WA scheme using white, WA Light Blue and WA Light Green (and without the Type 271 radar lantern which was fitted later.) 

 

Edited November 18, 2021 by dickrd

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Guys, thanks for your responses. @dickrd you're correct I should have but I'm not sure of the scheme she wore at the time. Your photo and the first photo of @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies post, are they of different times or did she have a different camo on either side of the ship? I have seen a photo of Ledbury disembarking survivors (not sure when and where, I assume they're from Pedestal ships) and it seems to support the port side of the ship in Dickrd's photo.

     A photo of Ohio being brought into Malta shows two ships holding her up, and I always thought the ship on the port side was Ledbury. But the camo scheme at the bow didn't match either of your two photos. I've just learned that it was another Hunt class, HMS Bramham that replaced Ledbury for the final run into Malta.

     So, at the time I'm interested in, July-August 1942 (PQ-17 and Pedestal) is it the photo immediately above, with the light blue, light green and white?

Thank you all for your help. Regards, Jeff.

[Our Ned]

Although the colours appear a little dark, this photo, said to be of Ledbury, shows the starboard side in the same scheme as dickrd's photo: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205016238. Although the caption says "1945?", I believe it was taken earlier than that., since. by 1945, she had been in the Mediterranean for some time.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Our Ned
typo

[Ngantek]

Sorry to revive this thread, I was just curious where you are with the Ledbury @ArnoldAmbrose. Is the plan still to build a converted H class in 600 or perhaps the IBG kit in 700? The reason I ask is because I'm slowing gearing up to try and build the Bramham from the IBG kit. (As an aside, I'm reasonably confident it is, as you say, the Bramham and not the Ledbury to the Ohio's port in the photo. The three destroyers went through various configurations towing the Ohio, the exact timeline of which I will have to dig around to recall).

Anyhow, I have a copy of "Man O' War #4 - Hunt Class Escort Destroyers" which has some good pictures of Ledbury after being decommissioned. I'd be happy to post them, but am unsure of the legality copying that stuff onto the Internet. Anyone know of the position here?  A picture of another Hunt, the Blankney 

is quoted as having a similar pattern to the Ledbury in June 43, although clearly that is no more information than one can find on Google, and says nothing about an earlier WA scheme that @dickrd knows of. I'll have a more thorough dig through the book in tomorrow. Anyway, keen to see how your Ledbury comes along, if it is indeed still in the pipeline. 

 

Cheers, 

Andy

[Ngantek]

On 18/11/2021 at 11:11, ArnoldAmbrose said:

I have seen a photo of Ledbury disembarking survivors (not sure when and where, I assume they're from Pedestal ships) and it seems to support the port side of the ship in Dickrd's photo.

There's a photo on the wiki that I'm scratching my head over. I can't square the pattern on the side of that picture with that of Ledbury that @dickrdposted. Here's a slightly better quality version.

 

The scheme to me looks more like another standard WA one, as seen on the Bramham for example.

 

Which makes me wonder if this photo is wrongly attributed (to throw another spanner in the works!).

 

As to the Ledbury's scheme, I can't find anything better than dickrd's photo. The Hambledon, Berkeley and Meynell all sport a similar 'early style WA type camouflage pattern' with a broken inclined panel sweeping from the bows, although the book specifically calls this out as green. 

 

 

EDIT: oo how about this from twitter

ORP Błyskawica

 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Ngantek

[dickrd]

34 minutes ago, Ngantek said:

There's a photo on the wiki that I'm scratching my head over. I can't square the pattern on the side of that picture with that of Ledbury that @dickrdposted. Here's a slightly better quality version.

 

The scheme to me looks more like another standard WA one, as seen on the Bramham for example.

 

Which makes me wonder if this photo is wrongly attributed (to throw another spanner in the works!).

 

 

Yes, the uppermost photo shows HMS Bramham. It is wrongly identified as HMS Ledbury in many places.  

[dickrd]

52 minutes ago, Ngantek said:

 

 

For various reasons which Jamie @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies and I could go into at length, none of these four images is any sort of guide to the true colours of RN WA schemes. The last one, HMS Bulldog, is not even a WA scheme but a Light Admiralty disruptive type and is just an ignorant colourisation of an original black and white photo; 

 

 

[Ngantek]

 

11 minutes ago, dickrd said:

For various reasons which Jamie @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies and I could go into at length, none of these four images is any sort of guide to the true colours of RN WA schemes. The last one, HMS Bulldog, is not even a WA scheme but a Light Admiralty disruptive type and is just an ignorant colourisation of an original black and white photo; 

Ah my apologies, I'm coming at this as a rank amateur who's just done a few google searches and am very happy to be corrected! I assumed it was some cursory recolour, but thought it might be interesting. Anyhow I'd be very interested to draw on your knowledge of these schemes (as I say, I've started a cursory reading around the subjects of the Bramham and also the Talybont, a type III), but perhaps in the interest of not hijacking this thread, I'll leave that for another time. Thanks again for clarifying!

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday Andy @Ngantek, no need to apologize for reviving the thread, or for being an amateur as you put it. I certainly am and even the most talented, experienced and knowledgeable modeler was in the beginning too. And neither are you hijacking the thread. This is in a general discussion section so it's open to all who wish to participate. The more the merrier, as they say. And therefore the more info for all.

     For me HMS Ledbury is still in the queue, but I haven't started her yet. I do have a 1/700 HMS Middleton kit in the stash but I'd still like to do HMS Ledbury in 1/600, my preferred scale. An Airfix Hotspur kit would be the easiest option in that regard I think but I'm out of them and haven't seen any in the stores here for quite some time. But there's a modeling Expo here in two weeks - you never know. I recently modified an Airfix HMS Cossack hull into HMS Onslow, and because of that (successful?) conversion I think I can use another for Ledbury. It might be a little while though.

     Although HMS Ledbury is currently on the back burner (with others) I'm always on the lookout for useful information of any potential model which I file away. So reviving a thread can only be of benefit.   So thank you. HTH. Regards, Jeff.

[Seahawk]

2 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

but I'd still like to do HMS Ledbury in 1/600, my preferred scale. An Airfix Hotspur kit would be the easiest option in that regard I think but I'm out of them and haven't seen any in the stores here for quite some time.

 

Peter Hodges did an article in Airfix Magazine on modelling the Hunts from the Airfix Hotspur back in the early seventies.  I got as far as shortening the hull and fitting a Cossack funnel but evidently overtaxed myself because that's where it's stayed for 35 years.  Do you have the article?  It's available online somewhere. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Seahawk

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday @Seahawk, Thanks, yes I've got a copy of it. @davecov has a thread on the ATF with them all. My biggest problem with that method now is that I don't have any more Hotspur kits so unless one pops up in the future I'm intending to have a go with a Cossack hull when I get around to the build. I found that when the hull was waterlined without the deck glued in the beam was adjustable. I could make new decks out of styrene from plans and squeeze the hull in to match them. Then shorten the hull to the required length. If it's going to be a waterline model maybe add cross hull spacers/supports or a base piece. If full hull (which I prefer) then I'll try to scratch build a lower hull for it. Then alter the shape of the bow. This is basically what I did for a model of HMS Onslow.   That's the plan, anyway. But as I said, it's down the build queue at present.

     Do you still have your model? And if so are you going to try to finish it? It seems like a good candidate for a KUTA GB.

     Regards, Jeff.

[davecov]

As Jeff @ArnoldAmbrose says, I have lots of the Airfix Magazine warship articles on my site - https://davecov.org/davecov/davecov-airfix-magazine-articles/ The Hunt Class Destroyer article comes in two parts in the January and February 1971 issues.

 

Dave