I don’t understand this universe any more

[ckw]

1 hour ago, Heather Kay said:

No problem. I fall into the trap occasionally. It’s just one of those things after centuries of patriarchy.

I learned the lesson the hard way ... in my early career I had to give presentations at conferences in universities. On my maiden voyage I made the mistake of saying something along the lines of "if your secretary ...., she will ..." and was immediately called out (in front of a large audience of senior academics) for assuming that a secretary was a 'she'. I've been paranoid about it ever since. BTW - how long has it been since anyone had a 'secretary' ? Anyway to I hate the "he/she" (or should that be "she/he"?) work around, so find myself using "they" to sidestep the issue which some people object to  on grammatical grounds! Why don't we have a singular gender neutral singular pronoun in English? Does any language? Although "they" may now be acceptable for singular use, it is still a plural, and must be treated as such in grammatical structures. 

 

36 minutes ago, John Tapsell said:

I thought the whole point of gender equality was that we shouldn't be labelling ourselves (or others)...

Yes - I sometimes wonder if the current vogue of the right/need to self identify has been a step backwards in some ways. I get confused - if someone goes to the effort of publicly identifying themselves as male or female does it mean they want others to treat them differently than if they hadn't self identified? If not, why bother? But as my daughter (she/her/hers) frequently points out, I just don't get it!

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[bootneck]

Two things come to mind here, which I have experienced when giving lectures in the past.  First, the speaker can't focus properly on giving a good, interesting and effective dialogue because of being forever conscious (distracted) about making such errors.  Second, the audience does not pay full attention to the subject matter itself because they are listening and waiting for those nuances; again distracting from their learning.  It's even worse when people then start interrupting the flow to comment, even more distractions.

[ckw]

16 minutes ago, bootneck said:

Two things come to mind here, which I have experienced when giving lectures in the past.  First, the speaker can't focus properly on giving a good, interesting and effective dialogue because of being forever conscious (distracted) about making such errors.

Exactly - which leads to speakers preparing everything they're going to say as a PowerPoint presentation, and then reading it to the audience word for word. Yawn!

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Wez]

@Heather Kay, thank you for starting this topic, it has given me quite a few chuckles reading through it.

 

I really don't mind regional variations in English, when I joined the Mob (sorry, Royal Air Force), I recall being issued with a Jockney translator that allowed me to understand the "boys from the Mersey and the Thames and the Tyne" (to quote Elvis Costello), as well as those from the Valleys, the Highlands and the Midlands within a few days.  I spent 22 years in the RAF and absorbed a lot of words from all over, I passed that onto my kids and it's been how they've identified other "Scaley Brats" (service kids), through their use of language and words.

 

For some reason I've lost the ability to do multiple quotes but there are some I should answer...

 

@Mike, the reason why us southerners use long vowels when we speak is because the air is much sweeter down south, I was always told that the reason why northerners used short vowels was because it was so grim up north they didn't want to open their mouths for any longer than necessary lest they should choke (obviously this piece of advice wasn't passed onto Yorkshire).

 

@Black Knight, gotten is apparently present in Shakespeare (not that I've read much of it to confirm that), it was taken across to the colonies and persists there to this day...   ...somewhat annoyingly.

 

Being a southerner, from a small island off of the south coast (you don't come much more southern than that), I can confirm that we don't all pronounce the word bath as barth, although I do pronounce it as baath (see the response to Mike above).  Also the Scots aren't the only ones to pronounce their r's in words, my daughter tells me that I use rhotic r's, this means that I pronounce farmer as faarrmerrr and butter as butterrr.

 

Having worked for an American company for many years, I do take great delight in the correct spelling of words such as programme (not program), you can always tell whether a document was written by a Brit or an American because of the spelling and syntax.

 

Many of you have already mentioned certain peeves (should of/should have), etc, your instead of you're is another one.  My biggest peeve though is when people use "them" instead of "those", the question "Can I have some of them?" is usually followed by me asking "Do you mean can I have some of those?".

 

Keep up the curmudgeonly pedantry, it brings the occasional wry smile or cruel chuckle.

[Ray S]

My contribution to the 'do not understand' occurred today. I am 6'1" tall, and weight 10 stone, but a long-sleeved top I bought for myself today was size 'XL'! I  need a medium fit everywhere else (except Primark), but I could have imagined I was in a restraint vest when I tried a 'M' (is that right or should it be an 'M'?) on.

 

Basically, where have all the proper sizings gone?

 

Ray

[hairystick]

13 hours ago, ckw said:

Yes - I sometimes wonder if the current vogue of the right/need to self identify has been a step backwards in some ways. I get confused - if someone goes to the effort of publicly identifying themselves as male or female does it mean they want others to treat them differently than if they hadn't self identified? If not, why bother? But as my daughter (she/her/hers) frequently points out, I just don't get it!

It is rather odd.

If someone wishes to identify as "non-binary" so as to not be put into one of two categories of sexual identity (male/female), haven't they just re-categorised themself?

Logically there is "non-binary" and "binary", so they are really just back to square one?

[JohnT]

One thing I don’t get and it crept in with the cat a few years back. When did the convention of applauding ( appropriate to indicating appreciation and pleasure in something) replace standing in quiet dignified silence as a mark of respect?  First noticed it at Princess Di’s funeral procession and thought it bizarre then. What next?  Whooping and fist punches in air?

[-Ian-]

23 minutes ago, JohnT said:

One thing I don’t get and it crept in with the cat a few years back. When did the convention of applauding ( appropriate to indicating appreciation and pleasure in something) replace standing in quiet dignified silence as a mark of respect?  First noticed it at Princess Di’s funeral procession and thought it bizarre then. What next?  Whooping and fist punches in air?

My theory is it's done to eliminate the risk of it being ruined by someone shouting abuse or a political slogan. If 20,000 people are standing in absolute silence, 1 idiot shouting will be easily heard, if 20,000 people are applauding the idiot will be drowned out.

 

I first noticed it at football matches where a minute's applause replaced a minute's silence 20-30 years ago.

Edited December 4, 2021 by -Ian-

[JohnT]

1 hour ago, -Ian- said:

My theory is it's done to eliminate the risk of it being ruined by someone shouting abuse or a political slogan. If 20,000 people are standing in absolute silence, 1 idiot shouting will be easily heard, if 20,000 people are applauding the idiot will be drowned out.

 

I first noticed it at football matches where a minute's applause replaced a minute's silence 20-30 years ago.

Sadly that’s my take on the rationale too. We seem to have abandoned concepts of manners and being polite

[Bullbasket]

16 hours ago, JohnT said:

What next?  Whooping and fist punches in air?

Give it time.

[Bobby No Mac]

My understanding is that a minute's applause is to celebrate someone's long and successful life eg the passing of a football club stalwart, while a minute's silence is still used for sombre occasions such as national tragedies.

[Mr T]

Amongst my treasured possessions is a complete set of 'Spons Workshop Receipts'. This four volume work is  full of information about how to make a wide variety of products and objects. My edition is from 1909 and it reads very differently from something written on the same sort of topic from fifty years later. Wilkie Collins book 'The Moonstone' is not an easy read until you get used to early-mid Victorian English and anyone who did Chaucer for 'A' Level English fifty years ago basically had to learn a new language. 

[Space Ranger]

On 11/16/2021 at 12:30 PM, PhoenixII said:

My personal grump is the now common way of starting a sentence with the word 'so'......

So why does that bother you? 😄

[Space Ranger]

On 11/18/2021 at 11:03 AM, IanC said:

 

Tempora mutantur...  I like knowing Latin is a dead language because I hated it. 

Doggerel scribbled on the endpaper of a U.S. high school* Latin textbook:

 

Latin’s a dead language;

That’s plain enough to see.

It killed off all the Romans,

And now it’s killing me!

 

*In the U.S., “high school” is grades 9-12. After that, assuming one graduates from high school** comes college/university.

**And another thing: It is becoming more and  more common to hear the phrase “graduates high school/

college/university” instead of “graduates FROM high school … ,” etc.

Or is this strangeness just an American quirk? Every time I hear the former I get an image of the entire graduating class scribing marks into the brickwork of their Alma Mater at precise intervals.

[Seahawk]

On 12/2/2021 at 12:00 AM, 2996 Victor said:

Werrs it to?

 

On the eponymous Farcebook page of said Somerset town, "Langport - where it's to!"

 

Excellent!  A stout defence (NB defence) of local dialect against linguistic imperialism from the Home Counties.  There is a distinction to be drawn between dialectal usage and plain ignorance/illiteracy. 

 

One error that sets my teeth on edge is "sunk" as the simple past tense of the verb "sink" in both transitive and intransitive forms eg "the ship that sunk the Bismarck", "the ship sunk at its moorings".  Arrgh!

Edited December 8, 2021 by Seahawk

[PhoenixII]

2 hours ago, Space Ranger said:

So why does that bother you? 😄

Sarky!  It just shows a lack of planning and lack of vocabulary. After all we've managed to start a sentence for decades without revision to what amounts to a pause.

[Vince1159]

3 hours ago, PhoenixII said:

Sarky!  It just shows a lack of planning and lack of vocabulary. After all we've managed to start a sentence for decades without revision to what amounts to a pause.

So,well if you consider the evolution of vocabulary it amounts to a,what could be considered as "so i'm making it up as i go along ,please bear with me"...

[Selwyn]

5 hours ago, Space Ranger said:

Doggerel scribbled on the endpaper of a U.S. high school* Latin textbook:

 

Latin’s a dead language;

That’s plain enough to see.

It killed off all the Romans,

And now it’s killing me!

 

*In the U.S., “high school” is grades 9-12. After that, assuming one graduates from high school** comes college/university.

**And another thing: It is becoming more and  more common to hear the phrase “graduates high school/

college/university” instead of “graduates FROM high school … ,” etc.

Or is this strangeness just an American quirk? Every time I hear the former I get an image of the entire graduating class scribing marks into the brickwork of their Alma Mater at precise intervals.

It seems that its an American thing to miss out words that are percieved to have no value,  but in fact have.  Americans like to "protest " things,  but we in the UK protest against, or Protest for something.  Another is numbers , 130, "hundred thirty" not a "hundred and thirty." Another puzzling thing  is plurals, US students stury "Math" Presuma British study "Maths. There are many  different mathamatical diciplines so it plural, you study mathamatics."

 

Selwyn

[Jonners]

On 12/2/2021 at 10:02 AM, ckw said:

Why don't we have a singular gender neutral singular pronoun in English? Does any language? Although "they" may now be acceptable for singular use, it is still a plural, and must be treated as such in grammatical structures. 

Hear, hear! So it isn't just me that gets wound up by the universal misuse of 'they/them'! I find the grammatical inaccuracy to be particularly irritating when it is used by a public body (eg council) or, worse, an educational establishment. Mind you, my wife thinks I'm just being a pedant...

Jon

[bentwaters81tfw]

^ I can't understand why they don't use 'thing'. Far more apt.

[RAF4EVER]

20 hours ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

^ I can't understand why they don't use 'thing'. Far more apt.

 

[PhoenixII]

On 12/8/2021 at 3:37 PM, Vince1159 said:

Well, if you consider the evolution of vocabulary it amounts to a. What could be considered as "I'm making it up as i go along, please bear with me"...

There ya go @Vince1159, fixed it for you......

[Vince1159]

27 minutes ago, PhoenixII said:

There ya go @Vince1159, fixed it for you......

Ta now could you sort out the interviewers and interviewees on news reports..

 

So well thanks,

Vince.

[PhoenixII]

@Vince1159 polite answer, NOT a ruddy hope!

2 minutes ago, Vince1159 said:

SEW well, thanks,

Vince.

[Circloy]

On 02/12/2021 at 10:02, ckw said:

Why don't we have a singular gender neutral singular pronoun in English

You mean 'this'