franky boy Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 Hello chaps As the title suggests can someone confirm the size of the black serial numbers used on the underside of RAF Sabre wings please. A small flicker is telling me that it’s 18 inches but could someone confirm. Thanks James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted November 15, 2021 Share Posted November 15, 2021 For Sabre 4 Fuselage & Upper wing roundels 30" Under wing roundels 18" Fin Flash 18" x 24" High Fuselage Serial 8" Underwing Serials 16" All these from modeldecal sheet 97 Julien 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky boy Posted November 16, 2021 Author Share Posted November 16, 2021 Thanks Julien. 16” it is. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Enerdal Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) The Airfix Canadair F.4 kit (A08109) has 18" serials. (Besides; the font of the 8" fuselage serials differs from the underwing ones). I have yet to receive the Xtradecal sheets X48107 and X48216 so I cannot comment on them. I don't have any of the older Eagle Strike or Cutting Edge sheets either. But the discrepancy makes me curious, especially as Airfix research is normally rather thorough. Modeldecal states 16" for RAF sabres on their sheet instructions. (Besides; where to find 18" serials in 1/48 - 12" serials in 1/32?) Edited August 9, 2022 by Tomas Enerdal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulaero Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Hmmm, I would Always go with Model decal research, Mr Ward was legendary in accuracy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 I stated 16 inches in my book, but it would still be worth checking. Can a clever soul scale them from these? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Enerdal Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Hmm: -Xtradecals arrived today, they have 16” serials. -XB929 and XB8.. have serial the same side as the roundels, which should be 18” according to mr Ward in model decal sheet 97… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 The serials for the underside should be 16" with an 18" roundel. This is only 1" larger each side and I would suspect hard to see? though they do look the same size on the pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedders Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Must say that on the photos they look the same size as the roundel. When I did my Fujimi/Italeri F4 with Modeldecals I followed the Modeldecal advice on 16" serials and looking at them now, they seem a tad small. Incidentally the top photo above is handy in showing the position of the drop tank pylon and swing brace locating point. A number of kits have this wrong. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 hour ago, Bedders said: Must say that on the photos they look the same size as the roundel. When I did my Fujimi/Italeri F4 with Modeldecals I followed the Modeldecal advice on 16" serials and looking at them now, they seem a tad small. Incidentally the top photo above is handy in showing the position of the drop tank pylon and swing brace locating point. A number of kits have this wrong. Justin In real life decerning a 2"diffference (thats 50.8mm) from a photo woud be nigh impossible. By the way that translates to the roundels being 0.705mm larger in 1/72 or 1.05mm in 1/48 which to me on a model would be within the printing tolerance of a decal anyway. Selwyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 9 minutes ago, Selwyn said: In real life decerning a 2"diffference (thats 50.8mm) from a photo woud be nigh impossible. By the way that translates to the roundels being 0.705mm larger in 1/72 or 1.05mm in 1/48 which to me on a model would be within the printing tolerance of a decal anyway. Selwyn It's hard to tell in a picture because of the various alignment issues and the different shapes of the serial compared to the roundel does not help but a 2" difference on a 16" roundel is a difference of over 10% and this on a model is very visible ! Regarding decal printing tolerances, a variation over 10% is something that would lead any serious company to return all sheets to the printer accompanied by a letter from a lawyer... printers can achieve way stricter tolerances, even without using particularly advanced equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Best I start suing all the decal manuafacturers I use as just a quick check in my stash, shows a variation in size. Also you may notice that kit supplied sheets don't usually have the decal sizes marked on them anyway! Selwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Selwyn said: Best I start suing all the decal manuafacturers I use as just a quick check in my stash, shows a variation in size. Also you may notice that kit supplied sheets don't usually have the decal sizes marked on them anyway! Selwyn Variation in sizes do not depend on the printer accuracy though, the printer just prints whatever the companies tell them to print. Some companies do their research properly, others really don't. If I'm a model company and I make an order to a printer for roundels of exactly 10.7 mm diameter, I'll get a 10.7 mm diameter, not a 11.4 or 10.1. Different story if the same model company ask directly for a 10.1 when it should be 10.7. Just look at the different accuracy of Airfix sheets compared to Italeri, even when both are printed by the same company,.... Another aspect we should keep in mind that any shape or size error on the kit will affect the decal, if my fuselage is too short a correctly sized decal will look wrong while a smaller one will look better even if inaccurate... Sorry if I may sound dismissive of the tolerance thing but I've been designing my decals for long enough to have some rough idea of what can and can not be achieved... any time I had someone else print stuff for me, whenever the decal didn't look right on the model it was my "mistake" and not the printer. Design things properly and a reliable printer will do it right. Edited August 12, 2022 by Giorgio N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Enerdal Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 Looking very carefully at pics of (crashed) XB8.. and XB929 in post above; the roundel dia and serial height are the same. 18" is a standard D-roundel size but I've never read about nor seen 16" D-roundels (though I don't have the Modeldecal set of D-roundels). As pointed out the difference is small but still quite noticeable when applied side by side. -I've yet to find a AM decal sheet with 1/48 18" serial letters/numbers (or 12" 1/32 or 27" 1/72) -1/48 16" serials can be used together with 1/72 24" D-roundels. Being equal in size it will look right, but in reality they will be a tad small. TE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 18 inches is/was the smallest standard size for the "D-type" roundels, as used on Vampires, Venoms and Tiger Moths amongst others and is easy to size correctly for 1:1 scale aircraft finishers having the colours in 6", 12" and 18" diameters for the correct 1:2:3 proportions. I cannot be bothered to re-size that for a 16" roundel and, I suspect, nor could the denizens of the Air Ministry who decide such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Enerdal Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 Since the roundels and serials seem to be the same size, 16" or 18" ? Fully agree that 18" sounds very logical (6/12/18). But also that 16" was a standardized size for serials. Does anyone know how the serials were applied? Roundels? Painting with spray masks? by hand? If I understand it correctly, the camouflage (DG/DSG/PRU) was applied by the RAF, including the stencils and other markings. In central paintshops? At unit/base level? TE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 Camouflage marking of RAF Sabres was done at 5MU, Kemble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomas Enerdal Posted August 15, 2022 Share Posted August 15, 2022 (edited) Thanks! Got your book yesterday, but haven't reached that chapter yet. (edit, found it on p.15) TE Edited August 16, 2022 by Tomas Enerdal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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