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RAF QRA - only ASRAAMs?


DeepSea
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Been like this for a while now. The rules of engagement state that any target must be visibly identified, therefore negates the use of BVR missiles. Each missile also has a take off and landing stress life, so the carriage of BVR missiles just for the sake of it will deplenish stocks quicker than need be. Having said that QRA jets can still at times be seen carrying BVR missiles, probably to do with keeping up currency for the aircrew and weapon loaders, but it’s few and far.

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9 hours ago, scotthldr said:

Been like this for a while now. The rules of engagement state that any target must be visibly identified, therefore negates the use of BVR missiles. Each missile also has a take off and landing stress life, so the carriage of BVR missiles just for the sake of it will deplenish stocks quicker than need be. Having said that QRA jets can still at times be seen carrying BVR missiles, probably to do with keeping up currency for the aircrew and weapon loaders, but it’s few and far.

so means that after so many years always going up with 8 missiles as the only? western airfroce regularly (and in peace time!), common (economical ) sense also takes turns in the RAF? :wall: 

 

the Italian Airforce F-35  seemed to have used an Amraam only load out though in the baltics and Iceland!  ....

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With the Chief of the Defence Staff suggesting that risks of an 'accidental' conflict with Russia have been increasing over recent years towards their current state a policy of not carrying BVR missiles when policing the UKADR just for the sake of showing-off a well recognised but in terms of the mission superfluous capability might be one way of sending a message of restraint in addition to the above-mentioned operational and financial benefits.     

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Loading any Q jet with IR missiles +/- a gun is all well & good….. right up until the point where it’s cloudy & you need a non-IR missile to shoot something down. Like a hijacked airliner which is being used as a weapon against a centre of population. 9/11 changed a lot of things.

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Just double checked and it seems that's also true for the joint RAF/Luftwaffe Air Policing South in Romania, only IR/short range missiles. The Luftwaffe jets there carried only IRIS-T - and a loaded gun 😉

 

Die-Luftwaffe-unterstuetzt-die-RAF-in-Ru

 

Yet during the Air Policing in the Baltics they carried at least sometimes two AMRAAMs.

 

E4p-OMyv-XIAELy-VC.jpg

 

But I see the point that ROEs require visual identfication anyway, and take off and landing stress on weapons should be kept limited.

Edited by Sierra Mike Sierra
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22 minutes ago, tweeky said:

 

I was referring to the Typhoons gun being loaded, Don't think the new leaping heap will be cleared for QRA duties yet. If at all.

I was assumung so... but as the F-35 was just deployed on the QEII, I am assuming they need some kind of QRA there as well, at least will!

 

Italy as mentioned above already uses the F-35A in this role. without even pylons for any kind of IR missile!

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21 hours ago, DougC said:

Loading any Q jet with IR missiles +/- a gun is all well & good….. right up until the point where it’s cloudy & you need a non-IR missile to shoot something down. Like a hijacked airliner which is being used as a weapon against a centre of population. 9/11 changed a lot of things.

 

A section of two Typhoons with a couple Asraam each would have no problem in shooting down an airliner, regardless of clouds or rain....

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9 hours ago, PLC1966 said:

Where does the F-35 enter this conversation ?

Nobody knows, it sneaked in using its stealth lol.

 

It certainly makes sense in this post Cold War (or possibly not!) world to not require being loaded to the brim for QRA. It wasn't the case back in the day though when the "bears" didn't always come along on their own and even the Tanker got involved in the shadowing (which made for an interesting photo). It seems incredible to me now but in the 70's & 80's we were squaring up to each other in a very aggressive war footing posture that doesn't exist at the moment (and hopefully never will again).

 

Duncan B

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10 hours ago, DougC said:

Do you mean AMRAAM?

 

I mean Asraam. It's a modern missile and while clouds do absorb IR radiation, the performance of this weapon is enough that any fighter can easily reach a position for a succesful attack on an airliner taking the presence of a potentially reduced IR signature into account.

Even the relatively small warhead is not much of a problem, as a QRA section would still be able to lay down enough missiles for a kill. not forgetting that airliners have been destroyed by single missiles with even smaller warheads

 

Really in peacetime a QRA load of 2 IR guided missiles has been common on plenty of types for the last few decades. I can't see why we should worry today....

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8 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

 

I mean Asraam. It's a modern missile and while clouds do absorb IR radiation, the performance of this weapon is enough that any fighter can easily reach a position for a succesful attack on an airliner taking the presence of a potentially reduced IR signature into account.

Even the relatively small warhead is not much of a problem, as a QRA section would still be able to lay down enough missiles for a kill. not forgetting that airliners have been destroyed by single missiles with even smaller warheads

 

Really in peacetime a QRA load of 2 IR guided missiles has been common on plenty of types for the last few decades. I can't see why we should worry today....

Fair enough.....but the last time I flew with ASRAAM, it most definitely couldn't acquire or engage a target in cloud. It's a great missile but all IR missiles have their limitations.

 

Unless you know something different?

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32 minutes ago, DougC said:

Fair enough.....but the last time I flew with ASRAAM, it most definitely couldn't acquire or engage a target in cloud. It's a great missile but all IR missiles have their limitations.

 

Unless you know something different?

 

спаси́бо! 🙂 

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38 minutes ago, DougC said:

Fair enough.....but the last time I flew with ASRAAM, it most definitely couldn't acquire or engage a target in cloud. It's a great missile but all IR missiles have their limitations.

Gad, man! Giving comfort to the enemy! You're supposed to tell the Russkies ASRAAM can hit them between the eyes while they're engaged in extra curricular activities in their secret girlfriend's basement apartment on a dark stormy night in December!

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On 11/15/2021 at 7:25 PM, exdraken said:

I was assumung so... but as the F-35 was just deployed on the QEII, I am assuming they need some kind of QRA there as well, at least will!

 

Italy as mentioned above already uses the F-35A in this role. without even pylons for any kind of IR missile!

Ah the alert 5 /15/30 what a wonderful waste of my life lying down on the flight deck snoozing with the pilot also snoozing in the cockpit 😂😂

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39 minutes ago, junglierating said:

Ah the alert 5 /15/30 what a wonderful waste of my life lying down on the flight deck snoozing with the pilot also snoozing in the cockpit 😂😂

Even better knowing HMG were paying you for it.....

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