Getting paint to stick to tank tracks?

[Doggy]

Hi all.

 

I'm having a dreadful time trying to get paint to stay on various rubber tracks.

 

The tracks vary from early 4 piece zvezda to older tamiya kits.

 

I've tried priming with Vallejo primer.

I've tried painting without primer using tamiya paints.

I've tried sealing the tracks before I apply an oil wash and pigments.

I've got 10 tanks waiting for tracks, I'm slower than the actual Germans.

 

My background is the motor trade and I know spray painters use plasticisers to paint flexible components on vehicles.

 

Am I doing something wrong, am I missing out a stage? I'm lost.

 

Thanks in advance

[Ade H]

Hello, Doggy. Before anyone unfairly criticises it, I'll jump in and point out that you're asking that primer to do something for which it was almost certainly never intended. Primers are fine for things which don't flex, but they are not miracle workers.

 

The one and only time when I've ever used vinyl tracks (or maybe rubber, but I'm not sure if there's any practical difference), they were representing rubber-pad M3 tracks, so I fitted them first and weathered them in place. No pre-painting; and no handling. They looked acceptable and stayed that way.

 

If your pocket stretches to it, maybe you should buy replacement tracks, at least for some of the worst offenders or any which are supposed to represent all-metal tracks.

 

By the way, Doggy, didn't you ask a similar question some time ago? I admire your persistence with these hellish things!

[Doggy]

2 minutes ago, Ade H said:

Hello, Doggy. Before anyone unfairly criticises it, I'll jump in and point out that you're asking that primer to do something for which it was almost certainly never intended. Primers are fine for things which don't flex, but they are not miracle workers.

 

The one and only time when I've ever used vinyl tracks (or maybe rubber, but I'm not sure if there's any practical difference), they were representing rubber-pad M3 tracks, so I fitted them first and weathered them in place. No pre-painting; and no handling. They looked acceptable and stayed that way.

 

If your pocket stretches to it, maybe you should buy replacement tracks, at least for some of the worst offenders or any which are supposed to represent all-metal tracks.

 

By the way, Doggy, didn't you ask a similar question some time ago? I admire your persistence with these hellish things!

I did, but it was about painting and applying pigment which you kindly helped me with, thanks again.

 

The thing is some of the zvezda kits were only 15quid, do you think it would be worthwhile using metal tracks? I think I've priced them at 30 quid.

 

The newer plastic tracks from zvezda are a bit better.

 

Doggy.

[Troy Smith]

21 minutes ago, Doggy said:

My background is the motor trade and I know spray painters use plasticisers to paint flexible components on vehicles.

 

In that case see if something like plastic bumper paint may help as a primer, or some specialist plastic primer/paint,  a lot depends on what your tracks are made of though. 

[Ade H]

As these are German tanks (not my specialist area) I assume that there are (or soon will be) a wider choice than just white metal. There are some resin producers, and some kit makers (mostly Bronco and MiniArt) sell track sets; but there are also some 3D printed resin track makers now, which look very good.

 

Budget kits may be tempting, but this is one of the hidden costs, if you like. The awkward choice between what's in the box and aftermarket.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Ade H

[Dads203]

Forget Vallejo primer - You are wizzing in the wind trying to prime vinyl tracks, its not the best primer for plastic in my book, I wouldn't touch the stuff. 

Halfords Acrylic Grey Primer will take a fair amount of flexing before it cracks and that is my choice if I have to use rubber type tracks, I do try and get aftermarket for most of my builds though. 

Wash the tracks in warm soapy water before you prime obveously leaving to dry, leave for 24 hours after priming to cure and then hit with the paint of your choice. 

 

Simples  

 

 

Tamiya's M10 with rubber tracks - My last build done with Halfords Primer

 

 

 

 

[Ade H]

It's unreasonable to go so far as to claim that you wouldn't touch the stuff. I don't mean to be rude, but it really is just unfairly blasting a good product and it gives newcomers an unrepresentative impression. If it was not strong enough to perform scrubbing and HS chipping over it, I would not be using it.

[Dads203]

5 minutes ago, Ade H said:

It's unreasonable to go so far as to claim that you wouldn't touch the stuff. I don't mean to be rude, but it really is just unfairly blasting a good product and it gives newcomers an unrepresentative impression. If it was not strong enough to perform scrubbing and HS chipping over it, I would not be using it.

Just my opinion mate… Take from it what you want - if you love it then fair enough. 
 

Doggy had a problem , I just offered a solution that works for me. 

[simmerit]

I must admit I like Halfords finest. Its cheap as chips, you get a whopping great tin for about 8 quid and the finish is excellent.  I use it for 99.9% of the priming I do unless its a specialist paint like Alclad. 

 

The way I look at primer is its primer.  Some of the branded stuff is s fortune for tiny bottle.  I cant remember what branded black primer I used for a 1/32nd Avenger I primed and was ready to paint, just before the mrs knocked it off the kitchen table and I watched it drop to the floor like a plane cast from an aircraft carrier deck into the sea at the end of WW2 (she cried in the toilet) but the stuff peeled off the plane.  I was well hacked off - the primer and the Avenger (which I binned after 6 months work).

 

The only tip I'd give is before you use it make sure you warm the tin - either stick it on a hot rad for 30 mins or stick the tin in very hot water.  It applies well when its warm and not so well when cold.  Halfords that is.  I'd give the branded stuff a miss - waste of money.

 

Just saying.

 

Ran out of Brown Ale as well.  Tragic.

 

 

 

 

[Doggy]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

In that case see if something like plastic bumper paint may help as a primer, or some specialist plastic primer/paint,  a lot depends on what your tracks are made of though. 

Exactly. I was offered the product but I refused as I was reluctant to put it on the tracks in case they melted.

 

At that time I was thinking about nipping into Halfords and buying their primer, that's still only a thought. 

 

I'll maybe try one set of tracks next week when back in work.

 

Thanks.

[Doggy]

12 minutes ago, simmerit said:

I must admit I like Halfords finest. Its cheap as chips, you get a whopping great tin for about 8 quid and the finish is excellent.  I use it for 99.9% of the priming I do unless its a specialist paint like Alclad. 

 

The way I look at primer is its primer.  Some of the branded stuff is s fortune for tiny bottle.  I cant remember what branded black primer I used for a 1/32nd Avenger I primed and was ready to paint, just before the mrs knocked it off the kitchen table and I watched it drop to the floor like a plane cast from an aircraft carrier deck into the sea at the end of WW2 (she cried in the toilet) but the stuff peeled off the plane.  I was well hacked off - the primer and the Avenger (which I binned after 6 months work).

 

The only tip I'd give is before you use it make sure you warm the tin - either stick it on a hot rad for 30 mins or stick the tin in very hot water.  It applies well when its warm and not so well when cold.  Halfords that is.  I'd give the branded stuff a miss - waste of money.

 

Just saying.

 

Ran out of Brown Ale as well.  Tragic.

 

 

 

 

Lol I'm sorry about your kit.

 

And the ale.

 

Halfords is a good bet.

 

Thanks.

[Doggy]

3 hours ago, Ade H said:

As these are German tanks (not my specialist area) I assume that there are (or soon will be) a wider choice than just white metal. There are some resin producers, and some kit makers (mostly Bronco and MiniArt) sell track sets; but there are also some 3D printed resin track makers now, which look very good.

 

Budget kits may be tempting, but this is one of the hidden costs, if you like. The awkward choice between what's in the box and aftermarket.

Yeah budget kits could be a false economy. On a plus side I'm happy to cut my teeth on budget kits and I'm learning the hard way.

 

Thanks.

[Doggy]

3 hours ago, Dads203 said:

Forget Vallejo primer - You are wizzing in the wind trying to prime vinyl tracks, its not the best primer for plastic in my book, I wouldn't touch the stuff. 

Halfords Acrylic Grey Primer will take a fair amount of flexing before it cracks and that is my choice if I have to use rubber type tracks, I do try and get aftermarket for most of my builds though. 

Wash the tracks in warm soapy water before you prime obveously leaving to dry, leave for 24 hours after priming to cure and then hit with the paint of your choice. 

 

Simples  

 

 

Tamiya's M10 with rubber tracks - My last build done with Halfords Primer

 

 

 

 

That's a nice build.

[Troy Smith]

4 hours ago, Doggy said:

on various rubber tracks.

 

The tracks vary from early 4 piece zvezda to older tamiya kits.

Try to work out what plastic they are, if you are lucky they may have a bit of sprue to play with.

 

Given they are flexible, I'd suggest they are PVC, polyvinyl chloride, which you can paint, with the right paint.  Or polyethylene/polythene,  which really does not like paint.   

 

I have used Mr Surfacer on an Airfix figure made from polythene,  what you may need to do is assemble the tracks, the use Mr Surfacer, as trying to prime, then fit won't work, but if fitted.

Another trick for the old Airfix figures is PVA glue.

But, again, will need fixing in place, then painting, as the glue, or Mr Surfacer doesn't  really stick, but forms a paintable shell.   

If they are not getting flexed, the paint won't flake off.

 

Also, you seem to be using acrylics, which don't  stick to normal plastic that well anyway, have you tried an enamel paint ?   if it's just the tracks then I presume that would be possible.

 

Finally, you could edit your thread heading and question,  which is what kind of plastic are these tracks made of, if you know that,  then you can find out what will work.    

 

 

  

 

 

 

[Dads203]

1 hour ago, Doggy said:

That's a nice build.

 

Link to the build if you are interested.

 

 

[Doggy]

40 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

Try to work out what plastic they are, if you are lucky they may have a bit of sprue to play with.

 

Given they are flexible, I'd suggest they are PVC, polyvinyl chloride, which you can paint, with the right paint.  Or polyethylene/polythene,  which really does not like paint.   

 

I have used Mr Surfacer on an Airfix figure made from polythene,  what you may need to do is assemble the tracks, the use Mr Surfacer, as trying to prime, then fit won't work, but if fitted.

Another trick for the old Airfix figures is PVA glue.

But, again, will need fixing in place, then painting, as the glue, or Mr Surfacer doesn't  really stick, but forms a paintable shell.   

If they are not getting flexed, the paint won't flake off.

 

Also, you seem to be using acrylics, which don't  stick to normal plastic that well anyway, have you tried an enamel paint ?   if it's just the tracks then I presume that would be possible.

 

Finally, you could edit your thread heading and question,  which is what kind of plastic are these tracks made of, if you know that,  then you can find out what will work.    

 

 

  

 

 

 

The cheaper zvezda tracks seem a bit plasticy and less rubber, they are very nasty.

 

Yes I only have acrylic paint, if I found a really good way to paint tracks with enamel paint I would be happy to use that system.

 

Thanks.

24 minutes ago, Dads203 said:

 

Link to the build if you are interested.

 

 

I am.

 

Cheers.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Ive used etching primer in flat black in the past. Once its dry you can go over it with other colors. Though if your vehicle uses rubber treads in the tracks (Early M3’s/M4’s). The flat black is almost spot on for newish tracks. 

[sapperastro]

Have used Tamiya acrylic successfully on the old style vinyl tracks. It seems to have more "stretch" to the paint. Enamel works on them too. With flexi tracks, be careful of the Tamiya tracks that can be glued with poly cement; painting these with enamel paint causes track rot down the line. I have a few 1/35 tanks that are "trackless" now that I built back in the 90's.

[Doggy]

I bought the Halfords primer and it's not fantastic, it does say on the can it's not for flexible surfaces.

I'm going to be more careful handling the tracks, I think that will help.

Time will tell.

 

Doggy