Italo/Ethiopian War

[Pauly Boy]

 Looking for some winter projects and this subject seemed interesting. Does anyone know of any books or reference site on this conflict?. What aircraft were used by the Italians and Ethiopians?  Somewhat obscure I know but I find the conflict interesting.

 Thanks Paul

[Giorgio N]

From the Italian side the types used were mainly bombers and recce/observation types.

Of the bombers, the most used were the trimotors Caproni 101 and its development Ca.133. These were "colonial bombers", types that could be used as both bombers and transports,

Smaller but also present was the single-engined Caproni 111, a type that could be used as bomber, light transport and recce aircraft. Larger, and similarly also useable for both bombing and transport missions, was the Siai SM.81 that joined the war at a later time.

The recce types were the IMAM Ro.1, that was already obsolete by then, and its successor Ro.37.

Fiat CR.20 fighters were also in theatre but they never had to deal with enemy aircraft.

 

As you can see none of the types used in the war is widely represented in model form, the only one easily available (or let's say easily enough...) is the old Supermodel Sm.81, later reboxed by Italeri. The Azur Ro.37 and Fly Ca.101 may also be found, the Ro.37 was also made in 1/48 by Classic Airframes... but then interwar types are always hard to find and Italian types from the era are even harder...

[ClaudioN]

If you can read Italian, THE reference is "Guerra aerea sull'Etiopia 1935-1939" by Roberto Gentilli. Printed in 1992, the book seems to be still available from vintage booksellers. See here, for instance.

For kits, in addition to those already mentioned by @Giorgio N you have the Kora Models Fiat CR 20 bis, LF Models Romeo Ro. 1 and Caproni Ca. 101, all of which include markings for the Abyssinian Crisis.

All of them in 72nd scale.

 

[JWM]

This year I did four models of machines from that forgotten war and still two more are not finished yet.

In a book published in Poland o Regia Aeronautica 1935-43 [*}  the Italian side machines were besides quoted Caproni 101 (two different variants! - with large variety of engines and dimensions!), Romeo Ro 1, Ro 37 bis, Caproni 133 (not present in 1935-6, but later, during occupation and war against UK in 1940), Fiat Cr 20 bis there were in use Breda 39, CMASA MF 4. Caproni 111 and later also Sm 79, SM 81, Fiat Cr 32, finally (1940)  also Fiat Cr 42 and Caproni 309....

In this thread 

I cited all what I have found in this book about RA forced during war 1935-36 in Abbysinia and Somali as for December 1935:

Caproni 101 ("D2" in Abb. - 19 and "bis" in So. - also 19)

Caproni 111 (26 in Abb + 18 in So.)

Romeo Ro 1 (65 in Abb + 9 in So) no Ro 1 bis!  

Ro 37 bis (10 in So.)

Fiat Cr 20 bis  (22 in Abb + 6 in So.)

Breda 39 (3 of them in Somalia) -  (there is a kit by Choroszy)

and flying boat CMASA MF 4 (4 of them in Somalia) 

(looks like this: http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/flyboat/mf4/mf4-5.jpg )

 

In 1939 it was:

Caproni 111 - 5

Caproni 133 - 103

Savoia SM 81  - 15

Savoia Sm 79 - 3

Fiat CR 32        - 31

Romeo Ro 37 - 8 

 

[* ]  Data taken from M.Wawrzynski & Z. Lalak "Reggia Aeronautica 1935-1943" Issued by Pegaz& Ulica Lipowa, Warsaw, 1998.

 

 

 

The airforces of Abyssinia were much smaller, I posted a link to web page on it here

So there were four Potez XXV, two Farmans 192, Beech Staggerwing,Junkaes w 33,  Fokker FVII....

Regards

J-W

 

[Pauly Boy]

 Thank you for the replies gentlemen. Love the various different kinds of aircraft that operated in theatre of a relatively unknown conflict. After research my next task will be to see what's available in kit form and how available they are.

One more question. Any known Ethiopian decals for said aircraft???

 Thanks again to all.

 Paul

[JWM]

If you are interesting in 1:72:

Romeo Ro 1 by LF (this is the box with markings from this war:  https://www.scalemates.com/kits/lf-models-pe7211-romeo-ro1--1102224)

The LF is doing also Caproni 101 from this war (re box of Fly kit, but with some corrections, https://www.scalemates.com/pl/kits/lf-models-lfpe7220-caproni-ca-101-d2--1320430 )

Fiat cr 20 bis https://www.scalemates.com/pl/kits/kora-models-kpk7277-fiat-cr20-bis--1198409

Caproni 111 https://www.scalemates.com/pl/kits/broplan-ms-76-caproni-ca111--1318106

Savoia Sm 81  

 

For Abyssinian Potez XXV decals: https://www.mojehobby.pl/products/Ethiopian-Potez-25-A2.html (unfortunately, the war time scheme is without this white inscription...)

 

Best regards

JWM
 

[Gilles_53]

Well, the Italians attacked on the 3 rd of October, 1935. There is a photo of the Potez 25 Lorraine "White 2" with still the lettering "Nessre Afawossen", the caption says "1 st of October, 1935". So this one kept the white letters quite a long time. If the photo was really taken on that date, you have your Potez in time of war. This aircraft is very famous, it was captured by the Italians art end of the war (and duly photographied) but at that moment the letters were gone.

[JWM]

2 hours ago, Gilles_53 said:

Well, the Italians attacked on the 3 rd of October, 1935. There is a photo of the Potez 25 Lorraine "White 2" with still the lettering "Nessre Afawossen", the caption says "1 st of October, 1935". So this one kept the white letters quite a long time. If the photo was really taken on that date, you have your Potez in time of war. This aircraft is very famous, it was captured by the Italians art end of the war (and duly photographied) but at that moment the letters were gone.

Great news that it was there in October 35, the proper variant of  Potez XXV is in stash and the  Blue Rider decals just arrived!

Regards

J-W

 

[Gilles_53]

There were some discussions about the roundels (on upper wing or not ?), and I see Blue Rider gave no indication for the rudder. When playing with the photos, we see the rudder was painted in the national colors, so you will have to add them. Under wings, the roundels do appear on the photos (not as clearly as we would have wished).

[JWM]

21 hours ago, Gilles_53 said:

There were some discussions about the roundels (on upper wing or not ?), and I see Blue Rider gave no indication for the rudder. When playing with the photos, we see the rudder was painted in the national colors, so you will have to add them. Under wings, the roundels do appear on the photos (not as clearly as we would have wished).

The roundels on bottom of wings surprise me, I think the conclusion from previous talks was that roundels on Abyssinian appeared after WW2... I wish to see the photo. i have some so I will carefully look through them.

Regards

J-W

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by JWM

[Pauly Boy]

 All great information. As much as I'm liking the Ethiopian Poetz 25 and the Italian SM 81 I really like the Fokker VIIA that flew with the Red Cross. Very different project!

[Gilles_53]

1 hour ago, JWM said:

The roundels on bottom of wings surprise me, I think the conclusion from previous talks was that roundels on Abyssinian appeared after WW2... I wish to see the photo. i have some so I will carefully look through them.

Regards N°

J-W

 

Well, photos are taken from the side, and usually from some distance. There are very few photos showing the top of the upper wing (I know only three of them, on the White 2, and for sure this is not easy to see the roundels (but it's not easy to see the colors on the rudder, either). You have to carefully look near the tabs (late tabs ... the "bancs de jardin"), play with light and contrast, and this is not so conclusive (I would believe they were in place, at least for White 2 Lorraine, when these photos were taken). Roundels were shown in the book (in french) Ciel de Guerre n°24 "La campagne d'Abyssinie", in page 20 (Top, bottom and side profile). Roundels for the upper wing were included in sheet FR0X03, first because of the above photos, and secondly as a safety measure (always easier not to put the roundels than having to source them if they are missing - if evidence shows up). Two of these "White 2" pictures should be in the Crezan site.

 

[JWM]

13 hours ago, Gilles_53 said:

Ciel de Guerre n°24 "La campagne d'Abyssinie",

If Potez had roundes what about the otheres like Junkers w33 and especially Farman 192 (the second, white one), which on photos presented in Crezan site seems not have them (so I did not added) but on colour profile there, it has roundels but I did not belived based on general rule that roundel were said to appear after WW2....

Regards

J-W

 

[Gilles_53]

Unfortunately, the photos of Ethiopians planes we have were all taken from ground, so the top of the wings was very rarely seen. For the Potez 25, there are two photos which seem to show roundels on upper wings. In Ciel de Guerre 24 "la campagne d'Abyssinie", page 20, you have a top view of the Lorraine "White 2", with roundels on top and bottom of wings. In the Crezan site, you may see the top wing of White 2, and I would bet there is a roundel on the right wing,  For the other aircraft, it's even more difficult to find documentation. Exception : there is picture where we have two aircraft with Red Crooses on top of the wings, one having an Ethiopian roundel on the rudder.

[JWM]

Hi

10 hours ago, Gilles_53 said:

xception : there is picture where we have two aircraft with Red Crooses on top of the wings, one having an Ethiopian roundel on the rudder.

That one I think:

In the background there is another Ethiopian  machine. this is Heinkel HD 21

http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/1796/pics/238_o_1.jpg

 

I've also googled interesting article

https://igobooks.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Wings-Over-Ogaden-Sample.pdf

and web page

https://mobile.facebook.com/sisaytmekonnen/photos/pcb.479228742411918/479227502412042/?type=3&source=48

 

We can keep on searching...

Regards

J-W

 

[JWM]

P.S.

And here

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Force_Publique_camouflaged_liaison_airplane_in_Ethiopia.jpg

description is saying Ethiopia, 1941, The machine is DH Puss Moth, I think. But - is it not a Belgian one?  A three colors patter - what it can be?

Regards

J-W

 

[Gilles_53]

Yes, your first photo was the one I was referring.. I was unclear about the second plane on background.

 

For the second picture, the Force Publique was involved in fighting the Italians, so  that might be a Belgian Puss Moth. But I have no information on these operations, we should probably have to go to "Dust Clouds in the Middle East"

 

 

[KRK4m]

C1 was not Puss Moth, but DH.85 Leopard Moth - Force Publique used her against the Italians in East Africa.

Cheers

Michael

[JWM]

On 11/19/2021 at 3:33 PM, Gilles_53 said:

I was unclear about the second plane on background.

This was in description of the photo I AFAIR...

 

BTW - now I am finishing Broplan's Caproni 111 from this conflict, soon on RFI, I hope . In next year Fokker F VIIa and Potez XXV with Azur-Frrom decals 😃.

Regards

J-W