1/72 Lockheed XP-80 "Lulu Belle" Kit Bash Conversion

[TheRealMrEd]

Hello again.

 

After finishing up my recent build of the Sea Wolf, I was setting around contemplating what project to do next.  I probably have more prospective projects left, than years in which to do them!

 

Anyway, I was looking at my P-80, T-33 and F-84 derivatives collection, and realized that I was missing the grand daddy of them all, the original XP-80 prototype.  I figured, "take anybody's P-80 kit, modify it a bit, and I'm home free".  Wrong...

 

First let me explain my way of "researching" future projects.  In the old days (before PC, which for you youngsters out there, is how we used to look things up BEFORE the smart phone), I had amassed quite a collection of magazines, books, pictures from airshows, and whatever else could be found.  Later after the PC came along, I began finding lots more information on-line, as well as more general knowledge, and most importantly -- more photos.  I will say now that this much more available flow of information transformed my modeling as much as discovering modeling Squadron Putty, razor saws, the air brush, and "hot" liquid glues!  The purpose of saying this is twofold: first, that our sources of useful information has blossomed way beyond what was available to past modelers, which means that we can now be more accurate, etc., etc.  Secondarily however, sometimes we amass stuff and forget from whom, or where, it was obtained.  More on that in a moment.  For now, let me just say, that when I see pictures or data on future probable build, I grab it now, and add it to the computer "stash"

 

But, let me show which kit I will use for the massacre.  I was originally going to use a Sword P-80A kit, because it offered the nice choice of the earlier bucket seat, vs the later ejection seat.  But I had to discard that idea, because of certain kit design elements.  Not because they weren't good, but because modifying them would be harder than the kit I chose.  Finally, I decided to eventually use the Sword kit for it's intended purpose, a P-80A, which sadly, will still have to be modified a bit for THAT usage.  Oh, well, the problems of modern kit economy, trying to allow for a gazillion versions of the same aircraft from one set of plastic sprue.  On the other hand, that's why we call it "modeling" rather than "assembling", lest you youngsters out there forget...

 

Now, the kit chosen for this effort was the MPC version of, I think, the ancient Airfix offering of the P-80, which has a few issues of it own, but I'm going to chop it up anyway; it's cheap; plus, I already own one!  Win...win...win!

 

 

Now, the crediting materials disclaimer.  Much of the information I'm going to use here was provided by other modelers or modeling enthusiasts, who have gone before.  Chief among those in this case are some very useful materials from Tommy Thomason's Tailhook Topics blog.  Tommy states that the P-80 falls under his Naval Aviation pervue, because the Navy considered, and tested, some P-80's and variants (like the twin-tailed T-33 I modeled earlier this year), but in the end, decided that as is, they were not suited for carrier use -- hence the later Seastar variant..

 

Anyway here are two useful links to some of Tommy's information that I used, and I highly recommend that you take a look at them, if you ever head down this road!

 

Tommy's Blog :Link The First

 

Tommy's Blog :Link The Second

 

And, a nice serials of walk-around pics for the restored "Lulu Belle"  XP-80 Restored pics

 

But, be aware that even the museum restoration has some errors, notably the canopy fit and the overall color, some discussion of which is contained in Tommy's various blogs.  There may also be others, so Tommy, if you tune into this, please provide any missing links that  I have overlooked!

 

Which brings me two the following drawings, which I downloaded from whence I can't remember.  If anyone knows the proper link to the original drawings, please feel free to add it to this discussion, and let me again apologize for not knowing where I stumbled across them.

I actually searched on-line for several hours, trying to find out, with no luck.  Anyway, apologies made, here they are:

 

 

 

The one above was made by a 1/48th modeler for a conversion he did.  I have taken the liberty of changing the shown dimensions here to reflect the ones needed for 1/72 scale.  In addition, I have out-lined in red all the necessary cuts that need to be made to the fuselage halves, including some changes in the cockpit area.  The original drawing showed the entire cockpit being displaced rearward, but only the front coaming needs to move back.  In the real P-80's, the rear cockpit panel bulkhead was never moved to accommodate adding an ejection seat.  The cockpit was lengthened forward to add the needed space to the cockpit AND the canopy.  So, to make the original XP-80, that added space has to be removed. 

 

This is what I mean, each passing day lends more information to the modeler, so that we can now be more accurate than before.  This is in no way meant to slight modelers who have heretofore done this conversion, as they, like all of this, worked with what they had.  We do indeed, stand on the shoulders of giants!

 

The next drawing is primarily to show the needed mods to the various appendages, shape-wise.  None of these drawings are necessarily to exact scale, but for your reference convenience only'

 

 

PLEASE NOTE, THE ABOVE DRAWING HAS BEEN SUBSTITUTED FOR THE ORIGINAL THAT i POSTED, THAT HAD INCORRECTLY SUGGESTED SLIDING THE LOWER FUSELAGE REARWARD, RATHER THAN FORWARD.  SOME OF THE FOLLOWING PICTURES MAY REFLECT THIS EARLIER, INCORRECT PROCEDURE.  I AM POSTING THIS CORRECTION, TO HEAD OFF THIS ERROR FOR ANYONE ATTEMPTING THIS BUILD.  PLEASE READ THE BUILD THREAD ENTIRELY, BEFORE  TRYING THIS!

 

 

Again, I wish I could attribute these drawing to their rightful owners/providers, so please help out here if you can.

 

All this being said, let me post a FINAL WARNING.  IF YOU CANNOT STAND THE SIGHT OF PLASTIC BEING TOTURED, EVEN BUTCHERED, PLEASE TURN AWAY NOW!  YOU CONTINUE AT YOUR OWN RISK!

 

Ed

Edited November 15, 2021 by TheRealMrEd
CORRECTED DRAWING ADDED

[72modeler]

Ed,

 

I will be watching this conversion with a great deal of interest, as "Lulu Belle" has always been a model that I would like to do. If you don't already have a copy, I would suggest you try to find The P-80 Shooting Star- Evolution of a Jet Fighter, from  the Smithsonian Institution Press.  It has the history of the P-80/T-33, as well as the changes made to the prototypes and detailed text and photos of the restoration of Lulu Belle. I have a copy, and it is an outstanding reference.

Mike

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/research/publications/p-80-shooting-star-evolution-jet-fighter

[dnl42]

This looks very interesting! I had looked for a 1/48 XP-80 kit, but didn't consider hacking and slashing. 

 

FWIW, I found a copy of your conversion basis at https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/lockheed-xp-80-prototype-good-quality-3-view-needed.31563/

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, TheRealMrEd said:

I actually searched on-line for several hours, trying to find out, with no luck. 

It was in an article in a US Modeling magazine, possibly Fine Scale Modeler.   Something that was edited by Paul Boyer,  as he complained when I asked for scans on Hyperscale many years ago.     They are not to scale in the mag.  

 

 @gingerbob  may know.

2 hours ago, TheRealMrEd said:

Again, I wish I could attribute these drawing to their rightful owners/providers, so please help out here if you can.

 

They are from Tommy Thomason blog you linked to.  

 

This has been discussed on here a few times,   The book Mike @72modeler mentions is really good.

 

HTH

[TheRealMrEd]

3 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Ed,

 

I will be watching this conversion with a great deal of interest, as "Lulu Belle" has always been a model that I would like to do. If you don't already have a copy, I would suggest you try to find The P-80 Shooting Star- Evolution of a Jet Fighter, from  the Smithsonian Institution Press.  It has the history of the P-80/T-33, as well as the changes made to the prototypes and detailed text and photos of the restoration of Lulu Belle. I have a copy, and it is an outstanding reference.

Mike

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/research/publications/p-80-shooting-star-evolution-jet-fighter

Thanks Mike, appreciate the link!

 

Ed

[TheRealMrEd]

2 hours ago, dnl42 said:

This looks very interesting! I had looked for a 1/48 XP-80 kit, but didn't consider hacking and slashing. 

 

FWIW, I found a copy of your conversion basis at https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/lockheed-xp-80-prototype-good-quality-3-view-needed.31563/

Thanks dnl42,  I think that must be exactly where I got them!  Hope they understand and forgive this usage!

 

Ed

[TheRealMrEd]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

It was in an article in a US Modeling magazine, possibly Fine Scale Modeler.   Something that was edited by Paul Boyer,  as he complained when I asked for scans on Hyperscale many years ago.     They are not to scale in the mag.  

 

 @gingerbob  may know.

They are from Tommy Thomason blog you linked to.  

 

This has been discussed on here a few times,   The book Mike @72modeler mentions is really good.

 

HTH

Thanks HTH.  I don't remember them in FSM, but I'm not as sharp as I once was.  In any event, I've updated the first drawing for a new generation!

 

Ed

[Wlad]

Interesting conversion Mr. Ed. Should be interesting. By the way, I think you meant F-94 on you second paragraph at the introduction.

 

Cheers,

Wlad

[gingerbob]

Hi,

 

On a second attempt I found my old "Work in Progress" thread for a 1/48 try.  As with all of mine, it ends inconclusively, but here's the link in case you haven't already found it and there happens to be something useful in there.  I'll certainly be following your build!

 

 

bob

 

p.s. One thing I'm still a bit stumped on- in that Smithsonian book (I think) it gives a slightly smaller maximum fuselage diameter for the XP vs the subsequent Shooting Stars.  It seems to me that redesigning an entire fuselage to "supersize" it would be an awful lot of work.  You'd think (or at least I would) that there would be some visual clue that this has been done, too.  Of course, there might BE such a clue that is blindingly obvious once someone points it out to me...

 

I also remember the mental wheels turning about a noticeably different main-gear well, and how I would deal with that (48th, remember).  Oh dear, if I'm not careful I'll be getting the bits and pieces out again!

[TheRealMrEd]

10 hours ago, Wlad said:

Interesting conversion Mr. Ed. Should be interesting. By the way, I think you meant F-94 on you second paragraph at the introduction.

 

Cheers,

Wlad

Yup!.  Should have been F-94!

 

Ed

[TheRealMrEd]

5 hours ago, gingerbob said:

Hi,

 

On a second attempt I found my old "Work in Progress" thread for a 1/48 try.  As with all of mine, it ends inconclusively, but here's the link in case you haven't already found it and there happens to be something useful in there.  I'll certainly be following your build!

 

 

bob

 

p.s. One thing I'm still a bit stumped on- in that Smithsonian book (I think) it gives a slightly smaller maximum fuselage diameter for the XP vs the subsequent Shooting Stars.  It seems to me that redesigning an entire fuselage to "supersize" it would be an awful lot of work.  You'd think (or at least I would) that there would be some visual clue that this has been done, too.  Of course, there might BE such a clue that is blindingly obvious once someone points it out to me...

 

I also remember the mental wheels turning about a noticeably different main-gear well, and how I would deal with that (48th, remember).  Oh dear, if I'm not careful I'll be getting the bits and pieces out again!

Thanks for the link, gingerbob  I hope to bring together all the info that I've found, assuming that I can remember to put it all into the thread!

 

Ed

[TheRealMrEd]

Okay, having given enough time for those of sound mind and body to flee for their lives -- on with the mayhem!

 

I'll begin by first adding the kits intakes, sans the splitter plates:

 

 

After the intakes had dried, the fuselage halves were taped together, and then DYMO tape was used to scribe in the needed sawing lines, above right.
 

Next, a fine razor saw is run along the scribed lines, over and over, to achieve the cuts.  The sections to be removed are marked with an "X":

 

 

Above right, the pieces.  The arrow shows where the cuts needed to move the front of the cockpit/canopy back are yet to be made.

 

Some very thin plastic card is used to re-enforce the joins where the shortened body part are glued together.  Also, the tailpipe, nose gear well top and a lead weight have been added, and the cockpit area has been painted interior green, as well:

 

 

Above right, note that the cockpit opening doesn't line up correctly.  The right fuselage half will need to be shortened even more at the front seam. The nice thing about plastic is, you can always saw it shorter, or, you can add length with shims of plastic card, as we will see later.

 

Next, the left fuse side has been temporarily glued to the front halves of the aircraft, to test fit the cockpit.  By temporarily gluing in this case, I mean a single application of Weld-On #3 "hot" liquid glue, which can then be removed later by coating again with more liquid glue, enabling the parts to be pulled apart later:

 

 

Well, that's a start.  Next time we'll see what further destruction we can achieve...

 

Ed

 

 

 

 

[billn53]

God, I love seeing a kit hacked into pieces, and then reassembled into something different!

[Marklo]

24 minutes ago, billn53 said:

God, I love seeing a kit hacked into pieces

Me too, old school modelling FTW  

Edited October 29, 2021 by Marklo

[opus999]

This will be fascinating.  Not only "old school modeling", but one of my all time favorite aircraft too!  Following this with interest.

[Gondor44]

I have an old Airfix kit set aside to do this to so I hope you don't mind if I pull up a seat?

 

Gondor

[72modeler]

On 10/29/2021 at 10:04 AM, TheRealMrEd said:

Above right, note that the cockpit opening doesn't line up correctly.

Not only that, Ed, the opening is not the correct shape- it should be a rectangular opening, not a curved one. Check photos for what I mean. And good luck tinting the canopy and matching the green paint! IIRC, the book does give an FS equivalent- I will get up to the archives in a bit and see if I can find it.)

Mike

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/lockheed-xp-80-lulu-belle/nasm_A19600296000

 

NASM photo of the XP-80 cockpit, in case you don't already have it, Note thre black and interior green sections.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/504051383277038344/

 

Good summary of the first flights and a photo showing the different wheel bay and fairing doors of the XP-80.

https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/lockheed-xp-80-shooting-star/

 

 

I have paraphrased the sections from volume three of the NASM Famous Aircraft series: The P-80 Shooting Star- Evolution of a Jet Fighter that deal with the exterior finish; I hope this helps!

 

'After consultation with Lockheed personnel who were familiar with Lulu-Belle's original paint  configuration, it was determined that the upper surfaces had been painted  with lusterless medium green, FS595A 34092, and the lower surfaces with lusterless grey, FS595A 36440... as the story goes, the Lockheed paint shop was engrossed in painting Lockheed Hudsons to fill wartime lend-lease orders for England. After a long day, when it was time for the painters to move to the Skunk Works to paint Lulu-Belle, they took with them the dark green of the RAF "sand and spinach" camouflage scheme. Why this color was used instead of the standard olive drab has never been satisfactorily explained.'  

[TheRealMrEd]

2 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Not only that, Ed, the opening is not the correct shape- it should be a rectangular opening, not a curved one. Check photos for what I mean. And good luck tinting the canopy and matching the green paint! IIRC, the book does give an FS equivalent- I will get up to the archives in a bit and see if I can find it.)

Mike

 

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/lockheed-xp-80-lulu-belle/nasm_A19600296000

 

NASM photo of the XP-80 cockpit, in case you don't already have it, Note thre black and interior green sections.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/504051383277038344/

 

Good summary of the first flights and a photo showing the different wheel bay and fairing doors of the XP-80.

https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag/lockheed-xp-80-shooting-star/

 

 

I have paraphrased the sections from volume three of the NASM Famous Aircraft series: The P-80 Shooting Star- Evolution of a Jet Fighter that deal with the exterior finish; I hope this helps!

 

'After consultation with Lockheed personnel who were familiar with Lulu-Belle's original paint  configuration, it was determined that the upper surfaces had been painted  with lusterless medium green, FS595A 34092, and the lower surfaces with lusterless grey, FS595A 36440... as the story goes, the Lockheed paint shop was engrossed in painting Lockheed Hudsons to fill wartime lend-lease orders for England. After a long day, when it was time for the painters to move to the Skunk Works to paint Lulu-Belle, they took with them the dark green of the RAF "sand and spinach" camouflage scheme. Why this color was used instead of the standard olive drab has never been satisfactorily explained.'  

Thanks for the input Mike!

 

I'll have to see what I can do about the opening.  I'm going with flat black over interior green for the cockpit, as I don't believe that gray was a factor in color during the war.  Anyway, virtually none of the interior can bee seen through the tiny opening!

 

I've got the gear doors covered, but as is mentioned in one of Tommy Thomason's Tailhook Topics, Dana Bell has pretty much debunked the odd green theory (and paint selection story) for a variety of reasons, including how the original paint had faded, directly in keeping with how the O.D. paint faded.  I am going with Dana Bell, every time!  In his opinion NASM screwed up, but this also reflects more and better info available these days.  Remember the old saw about trusting museum restorations....

 

Oh, and that doesn't even mention the fact the the museum's restoration used a different style canopy for the restoration, which does not fit the aircraft at the rear end at all.

 

Ed

 

 

[72modeler]

53 minutes ago, TheRealMrEd said:

the museum's restoration used a different style canopy for the restoration, which does not fit the aircraft at the rear end at all.

 

Not real convinced of that. Looking at the numerous photos of Lulu Belle in the NASM book, it does have a tinted canopy, as did the XP-80A also pictured in the book, and the framework on both is  the same as the ones fitted to production P-80A's, which also appear to have had tinted canopies.  In the photos that show Lulu Bell's canopy shut, there is no gap at the back between the base of the canopy and the fuselage, but there is clearly a gap when the canopy is slid back. Lulu Belle was placed into storage with the Smithsonian in 1946, so it is very likely that the canopy is the original. As for the gap, the restoration team could not find an adjustment on the canopy mechanism to close the gap when shut, but might be attributed to damage in the tracks or arms attached to the front being damaged or bent during the many years in storage and moves between storage facilities, as all of the aircraft and artifacts that were in storage at Silverhill, MD for so many years were transferred to the Dulles Facility.

 

As for the paint, the monograph did say that Lulu Belle was not painted as other USAAF aircraft of the same time period, and was nicknamed "The Green Hornet- with the first XP-80A being nicknamed "The Grey Ghost and the second one "The Silver Ghost due to their color schemes. Dana is THE authority on the subject of WW2 US aircraft colors and markings, and he does have access to the archives of the NASM- I just offer what I found in the NASM monograph for your reference. (As we say here in the Lone Star State, "I ain't got a horse in this race!"

Mike

[Hook]

On 10/28/2021 at 11:14 PM, TheRealMrEd said:

IF YOU CANNOT STAND THE SIGHT OF PLASTIC BEING TOTURED, EVEN BUTCHERED, PLEASE TURN AWAY NOW! 

Are you mad? Those are my favourite WIP's! 😎

 

Following with interest.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[k5054nz]

I hadn't commented yet but I've been following with great interest - I'm always interested in these hack-and-slash kind of conversions. Such clever planning and it's always nice to see it pay off.

[TheRealMrEd]

Thanks, folks!

 

Next up, before closing up the fuselage, is readying the interior.  After pre-assembling, I determined that not very much is going to be viewable when done, but I decided I would do a little bit of improvement. First I used a razor saw on the seat "arms", removing them whole from the seat proper:

 

 

Above center, whilst the arms were off, I sanded down the bottom of the seat, and rounded the top a bit, to give more of a bucket seat look, as the earliest P-80's did not have an ejection seat.  Then, the "arms" were reattached, and then sanded thinner.  Also note the new rectangular hole (arrow) where the instrument panel will be installed,  about 3mm rearward from it original location, as I am shortening the cockpit by that amount.  The excess floor and side panels will be sawed off forward of the I.P.

 

Above right, some Mike Grant instrument decals have been added, The clear acrylic to represent the glass having been added with the tiny pointed mini q-tip that I found in the cosmetics department, while shopping with my wife.  I recommend them highly.

 

Next, the fuselage halves were permanently joined together, large gaps notwithstanding:

 

 

Above right, the gap was filled with varying pieces of plastic card and liquid cement.  Sorry that I forgot to resize the photo!

 

The next pic shows the much-sanded upon cockpit floor, as well as the step or gap resulting from the differing fuselage sizes, after the lower fuselage section was removed:

 

 

Back for more, after the glue dries and I can begin to re-shape things...

 

Ed

 

 

[TheRealMrEd]

 Next, I used some sprue cutters to trim the excess plastic close to the model:

 

 

Which looks reasonably good after sanding, above right.

 

Next up, the existing intakes have to be sawn off, and T-33 or possibly F-94 intakes added, as the are close to the size needed.  I got mine from the spares box, possibly Heller F-94B:

 

 

There will be a lot of filling and sanding at this stage.  In fact, I expect this to be the hardest part of the entire model!

 

Ed

[billn53]

4 hours ago, TheRealMrEd said:

 

There will be a lot of filling and sanding at this stage.

 

 

I can almost smell the Bondo from here. 😆

[TheRealMrEd]

Well Bill, there'll be more to come...

 

Anyway, more stuff to to, in this case,  the main landing gear doors, which are completely different from those on the production P-80's.  I began by gluing all the doors onto the model, as though I was building her wheels up:

 

 

Above right, after some filling and sanding.  After the fact, I believe that one could skip this step, and just carefully carve out the needed shapes, as shown below, crudely drawn with a marker:

 

 

Above right, shown after one side is cut away.  I should note here, that while I will clean them up to at least pretty much match, I am not going to spend any real time on their exact shape and size as (A) I have no real pictures nor accurate drawing to go by, and (B) this will be a display model in a case, and I'm only trying to show how different they were.  Detail aficionados may have a different approach!

 

Next, the upper wing-tips only,  were marked a little longer than the desired shape, using a template made from the drawings shown earlier.  They are marked a little long to allow for final sanding to shape, later on:

 

 

Next, the lower wing with the cut-out wheel wells was glued to the fuselage:

 

 

Above right, (A) the front of the intake will need to be re-shaped, the leading edger fillet (B) will need to be removed and that area filled, and the wingtip's new shape (C) will have to also be added to the lower wing, when the upper wing halves are glued to the lower wing halves. When all is said and done, there is a reasonable amount of detail in the wheel bays, with only one small strip needing to be filled.  I did have to carefully sand off a little of the upper wings' insert tab, as well as whittle a bit here and there to achieve this fit:

 

 

Wing tips have been sanded down, and I'm making a little progress...

 

Later,

 

Ed