Slater Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Thought this was an interesting comparison from an "official document" standpoint. This reading room is open for public viewing and contains some interesting declassified documents: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0001471952.pdf 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 (edited) Seems these aircraft didn't go totally unscathed. One Oxcart aircraft on a "BLACK SHIELD" mission was hit by a missile fragment: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0001473841.pdf Just speculation on my part from reading the document, but it seems that the A-12's onboard ECM systems such as MAD MOTH and BLUE DOG activated automatically upon detecting certain emissions. Edited October 27, 2021 by Slater 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan P Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 You're correct about the ECM. Their activation was keyed to the SA-2 detection and guidance radars automatically. At the time the SA-2 was the only platform capable of engaging an A-12. Probably a wise choice given the single crew operation! Just a side note...from the date of the comparison document it looks like part of the final evaluation whether to keep the A-12 going alongside the SR-71 (which the CIA very much wanted) or cancel it entirely in favour of the SR-71 and move everything over to the Air Force (which the air force very much wanted). Not surprisingly, the air force won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slater Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 Yes, fishing through all the documentation, the CIA apparently provided a rationale as to why a civilian pilot would be preferable to a military one: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0001472019.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 25 minutes ago, Slater said: Yes, fishing through all the documentation, the CIA apparently provided a rationale as to why a civilian pilot would be preferable to a military one: https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0001472019.pdf wow! lots of inter service rivalry here! and lots of "open" discussion on how to not admit something you have undeniably done.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dov Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Hallo Here I should give you one thing to add: In US history the denial of truth is remarkable. When the first Jet aircrafts were under development, it was intended to keep them secret. How to do? Obscure but true. The pilot was instructed to wear a full gorilla mask. So in case any pilot chasing this aircraft and reports a monkey flies this aircraft, would not be believed. Or the Oxcard: Any civil airliner pilot reporting seeing an unidentified flying object, because nobody out of area 51 and officials knew about it this aircraft, got in trouble. If you continue this path of honesty and truthfulness until today, you can guess what is, what you read and what is real. Bringing down or disparaging foreign developments is one thing. However, if the opponent does really great things where the arguments no longer work, then it becomes really funny. Arguments are so overstretched that it almost amounts to a comedy. Russian developments in the aircraft sector and the furniture van of the F-35. And 20 years of war for free. In addition, there is the new Chinese port bomb, which is able to completely destroy a port facility. A new dimension of Pearl Harbor. Just thoughts. Happy modelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan P Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 On 10/27/2021 at 12:29 PM, exdraken said: wow! lots of inter service rivalry here! That's ultimately why the programme was cut in the end. Most of the European missions and the reason for the Mildenhall detachment were intelligence gathering for CIA, State and Navy purposes which the generals of SAC were fed up with funding from their own budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 35 minutes ago, Alan P said: That's ultimately why the programme was cut in the end. Most of the European missions and the reason for the Mildenhall detachment were intelligence gathering for CIA, State and Navy purposes which the generals of SAC were fed up with funding from their own budget. Somehow astonishing that overarching US/ allied goals seem rarely a factor... "SAC being fed up...." who funded SAC? Seems that the services themselves were/are more influential than DoD requirements.. If the "US" needs/wants this Intel, no matter if Navy, CIA, SAC, Central, NATO... in my ideal world funding needs to be found Obviously the "US" did not "need" it sufficiently! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan P Posted November 27, 2021 Share Posted November 27, 2021 Never underestimate a general three years from a pension. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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